RE: McLaren P1 Nurburgring lap time
Discussion
corozin said:
I'm just wondering if any P1 owners will actually take thier rather expensive cars to the Nurburgring!
Will at least make a change to watching them kerb crawling around Kensington and Hyde Park
Compared to the countless LA Ferrari and Porsche 918 heroes?Will at least make a change to watching them kerb crawling around Kensington and Hyde Park
Oh that's right only race drivers are alloWed to both either of those two......
Final calibrations could be optimising KERS deployment and harvesting for optimum lap time, which could be worth several seconds a lap. Also diff settings and suspension ride hight/stiffness, all of which will be user selectable and adjustable durimg the lap without any mechanical changes. The Ferrari is clearly an epic machine, but my gut feeling is the P1 will have the edge on laptime.
RenOHH said:
ThatsWhatShe said:
Less than f
k all presumably.
They are using stone age technology compared to McLaren.
I don't think it's "fk all presumably.They are using stone age technology compared to McLaren.
k all", but I don't personally think they'll come anywhere near in a standard LaFerrari.They're probably in the process of modifying it to a spec that's not road legal though, then claiming that it is when they set the record.
(Which car company is most successful, the one with the fastest lap time or the one with the full order book?)
kambites said:
British Beef said:
"Calibration and final tuning" to deliver the official lap time.... I would love to know what this comprises of!!!
Im sure all the manufacturers do it, but with turbo engines turning the boost up and changing the engine mapping for a "qualifying lap" must be relatively easy to do.
Well in Alfa's case it at least seems to involve taping up the shut-lines. Im sure all the manufacturers do it, but with turbo engines turning the boost up and changing the engine mapping for a "qualifying lap" must be relatively easy to do.
Here's a thought for you:
Perhaps Ferrari won't bother with all the willy-waving 'Ring lap-times because, well frankly, they simply don't need to!
They'll sell all of their La Ferrari's with no trouble whatsoever and don't really have to prove themselves to anyone.
With McLaren on the other hand, I always get the impression that they're a bit desperate to try to prove that they make the better car! (Especially when it comes to their rivalry with Ferrari. As I see it, there's a lot of jealousy at McLaren when it comes to everything associated with Ferrari!)
Perhaps Ferrari won't bother with all the willy-waving 'Ring lap-times because, well frankly, they simply don't need to!
They'll sell all of their La Ferrari's with no trouble whatsoever and don't really have to prove themselves to anyone.
With McLaren on the other hand, I always get the impression that they're a bit desperate to try to prove that they make the better car! (Especially when it comes to their rivalry with Ferrari. As I see it, there's a lot of jealousy at McLaren when it comes to everything associated with Ferrari!)
4rephill said:
Here's a thought for you:
Perhaps Ferrari won't bother with all the willy-waving 'Ring lap-times because, well frankly, they simply don't need to!
They'll sell all of their La Ferrari's with no trouble whatsoever and don't really have to prove themselves to anyone.
With McLaren on the other hand, I always get the impression that they're a bit desperate to try to prove that they make the better car! (Especially when it comes to their rivalry with Ferrari. As I see it, there's a lot of jealousy at McLaren when it comes to everything associated with Ferrari!)
I'm of the impression that if LaFerrari could beat the P1 time, they'd do it and make a big deal of it. But if it can't, they'll just make out that a 'ring laptime is not that important, and that they're 'rising above' the willy-waving Perhaps Ferrari won't bother with all the willy-waving 'Ring lap-times because, well frankly, they simply don't need to!
They'll sell all of their La Ferrari's with no trouble whatsoever and don't really have to prove themselves to anyone.
With McLaren on the other hand, I always get the impression that they're a bit desperate to try to prove that they make the better car! (Especially when it comes to their rivalry with Ferrari. As I see it, there's a lot of jealousy at McLaren when it comes to everything associated with Ferrari!)
4rephill said:
With McLaren on the other hand, I always get the impression that they're a bit desperate to try to prove that they make the better car! (Especially when it comes to their rivalry with Ferrari. As I see it, there's a lot of jealousy at McLaren when it comes to everything associated with Ferrari!)
Jealousy is a bit strong. More like comparing yourself to the benchmark market leader. Seems sensible to me, if you want to be regarded the best.However, McLaren will need to pull out something spectacular and Ferrari drop a huge b
k for potential customers to perceive it otherwise. People don't by a Ferrari because it is the best, they buy a Ferrari because it is a Ferrari. Ferrari have built some objectively horrid cars, but they have always managed to sell them.Now Ferrari is the powerful marketing machine it is, I don't see any Ferrari, no matter how deficient it is to the competition, not selling.
McSam said:
The Vambo said:
I'm sure the 1999 Honda S2000 engineers are feeling quite smug at those figures.
Near-identical specific output 
Engineers typically have to go to great lengths to harvest more power from engines as potent as Honda's S2000. Getting the Ferrari V12 from a Honda-like 740 bhp to its current 790 bhp probably took multiple careful enhancements - and its one thing to spin a 4-cylinder crank at 9k rpm, quite another when its a longer V12 crank with twice as many cylinders per unit length.
boxerTen said:
The same way the P1's reputed 6:47 lap time at the ring is near-identical to say 7:12
Engineers typically have to go to great lengths to harvest more power from engines as potent as Honda's S2000. Getting the Ferrari V12 from a Honda-like 740 bhp to its current 790 bhp probably took multiple careful enhancements - and its one thing to spin a 4-cylinder crank at 9k rpm, quite another when its a longer V12 crank with twice as many cylinders per unit length.
Wait, didn't the Zonda R variants produce more than 750bhp from a 6.0L V12 engine a good 5 years ago?Engineers typically have to go to great lengths to harvest more power from engines as potent as Honda's S2000. Getting the Ferrari V12 from a Honda-like 740 bhp to its current 790 bhp probably took multiple careful enhancements - and its one thing to spin a 4-cylinder crank at 9k rpm, quite another when its a longer V12 crank with twice as many cylinders per unit length.
boxerTen said:
its one thing to spin a 4-cylinder crank at 9k rpm, quite another when its a longer V12 crank with twice as many cylinders per unit length.
You can almost imagine the Ferrari engineers dreaming of the day that they are allowed to use the that naturally unbalanced inline four configuration rather than the v12 that they are forced to use.Mark ANTAR said:
Please correct!
"Apart from the '10 seconds faster than anyone' around the Top Gear test track, claimed by one Ron Dennis, that is."
If you listen to the video carefully, you'll find that he said he went 10s faster than the 'star in a reasonably priced car' lap time record.
The problem is no one expects comedy from Ron Dennis "Apart from the '10 seconds faster than anyone' around the Top Gear test track, claimed by one Ron Dennis, that is."
If you listen to the video carefully, you'll find that he said he went 10s faster than the 'star in a reasonably priced car' lap time record.
so even when that line was delivered it didn't play that way to most ears. That's obviously what he meant with the comment though. After the Huayra cheated for their Power Lap time with cut slicks it will be impossible for anything to beat it by that wide a margin.
>8^)
ER
ManOpener said:
boxerTen said:
The same way the P1's reputed 6:47 lap time at the ring is near-identical to say 7:12
Engineers typically have to go to great lengths to harvest more power from engines as potent as Honda's S2000. Getting the Ferrari V12 from a Honda-like 740 bhp to its current 790 bhp probably took multiple careful enhancements - and its one thing to spin a 4-cylinder crank at 9k rpm, quite another when its a longer V12 crank with twice as many cylinders per unit length.
Wait, didn't the Zonda R variants produce more than 750bhp from a 6.0L V12 engine a good 5 years ago?Engineers typically have to go to great lengths to harvest more power from engines as potent as Honda's S2000. Getting the Ferrari V12 from a Honda-like 740 bhp to its current 790 bhp probably took multiple careful enhancements - and its one thing to spin a 4-cylinder crank at 9k rpm, quite another when its a longer V12 crank with twice as many cylinders per unit length.
The Vambo said:
boxerTen said:
its one thing to spin a 4-cylinder crank at 9k rpm, quite another when its a longer V12 crank with twice as many cylinders per unit length.
You can almost imagine the Ferrari engineers dreaming of the day that they are allowed to use the that naturally unbalanced inline four configuration rather than the v12 that they are forced to use.Resonances OTOH are a big problem. The resonant frequency of a long V12 crankshaft heavy enough to handle 800 bhp, is going to occur at a lot lower frequency than an inline four handling 'only' 240bhp.
Ferrari is however comprehensively eclipsed by BMW - for a state of the art 4-cylinder engine see the S1000RR motorbike. 1 litre. 193bhp. No typo there
.Edited by boxerTen on Tuesday 22 October 23:50
Froomee said:
On that basis you could argue that Porsche has home advantage at the ring...
Not quite the same thing - McLaren actually develops their cars at Dunsfold don't they? Porsche have their own tracks for that (no-one would develop a car purely at the 'Ring anyway?)Froomee said:
Tuning the car slightly i.e. suspension and aero settings are fair game as long as this can be done by a customer. Using slick tyres and/or upping power would be cheating in my opinion.
If I had over £1m to spend on a car I'd go the whole hog and have race wheels delivered/stored at the track - thus slicks isn't really out-of-bounds, tho it's not in the spirit of 'road car' perhaps.Given the effort which goes into the tyres for these cars - I'd suggest they'd not waste their time re-developing the car for slicks tho - odds are they have a 'trick' tyre option for owners anyway - they'll just use that one (and one which is on the borderline of road-illegal perhaps).
p.s. as for Ferrari, they're claiming more power and less weight so they have to pony-up something. Not sure they really care much for the 'Ring tho - they can presumably sell all their cars without that badge anyway...
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