Electric Car Repairs/Maintenance ?
Discussion
kambites said:
It's an interesting point. As EV sales start to rise and "regular maintenance costs" fall, the value of main dealer franchises is inevitably going to fall, possibly quite dramatically.
They may eventually become simply the place to buy and sell the cars - infact I could see cars being sold more and more only at the brand garage they relate. Also with older used cars I could see this killing off used car traders as they will not be able to offer the warranty - basically what could go wrong um the battery and motor Mega price items which could be closed protocol in which case nowhere to fix them.
Another thing as cars get better and better in accidents but the crumple zones crush so much cars will just not b repaired as damage so extensive but giving so much more safety to occupants.
What will petrol stations do? Possibly this is where dealers could take over and offer the infrastructure to charge
As EV are Emmission free they will lower VED revenues
MOT costs should drop too
kambites said:
DonkeyApple said:
The rather bizarre 'service' elements seem to highlight the clutching at straws by manufacturers to try and bring these vehicles into their hugely lucrative after sales revenue streams.
I'm sure that if you haven't had your tyre valves checked it will void your warranty etc.
Maybe it's one of the core issues behind getting many sellers to push them?
It's an interesting point. As EV sales start to rise and "regular maintenance costs" fall, the value of main dealer franchises is inevitably going to fall, possibly quite dramatically. I'm sure that if you haven't had your tyre valves checked it will void your warranty etc.
Maybe it's one of the core issues behind getting many sellers to push them?
Maybe it'll precipitate a new type of dealership network for EVs. After all, the bulk of sales are going to remain in wealthy, suburban zones for some time to come.
kambites said:
I think that 1% in 10 years is hard failures; it doesn't take into account loss of charge through "wear".
Most manufacturers seem to guarantee that the batteries will still hold a certain percentage of their new charge after a given period of time - for example I think for the i3, BMW guarantee at least 80% charge after 8 years or 100000 miles (whichever comes first). Of course how likely they are to fail shortly after that, is anyone's guess.
And as Leaf drivers are now finding, fast charge depletes battery performance much faster than previously predicted.Most manufacturers seem to guarantee that the batteries will still hold a certain percentage of their new charge after a given period of time - for example I think for the i3, BMW guarantee at least 80% charge after 8 years or 100000 miles (whichever comes first). Of course how likely they are to fail shortly after that, is anyone's guess.
Also, in the USA, Leaf owners are now getting wise to the EV pitfalls as Nissan is now looking for high monthly battery replacement fees to secure a battery replacemnt program.
Technomatt said:
kambites said:
Technomatt said:
According to KBB, the 2013 Leaf will only retain 35 percent of its sticker price after three years.
About the same as a Micra then, which various different figures seem to put between 33 and 38%. Mind you that's a UK figure for the Micra, I've no idea how they do in the US; perhaps better?
ETA: Projections for the i3 seem to all be over 50%, which is on a par with other BMWs. I'd say there was no real difference between electric cars and petrol ones in terms of residuals.
Edited by kambites on Monday 4th November 19:07
An equivalent USA Nissan like the Versa only depreciates by about 50% over 3 years.
You gotta know your stuff.....
If it's worth less you have it back.
And you get your servicing included for 4 years.
It's a deal, it's a steal etc
EVs if they come good will also really her classic cars. Relatively cheap petrol will be available for generations to come.
Interesting question is how many solar pancake would you need to charge up your EV daily? And could they provide enough charging during winter? If so you'd have zero fueling costs
Interesting question is how many solar pancake would you need to charge up your EV daily? And could they provide enough charging during winter? If so you'd have zero fueling costs
Butter Face said:
Renault reckon the residual of a base model ZOE is around 38% after FOUR years.
If it's worth less you have it back.
And you get your servicing included for 4 years.
It's a deal, it's a steal etc
'Renault reckon'.....say no more If it's worth less you have it back.
And you get your servicing included for 4 years.
It's a deal, it's a steal etc
Renault do the free 4 year servicing on ALL vehicles, even ones with an ICE.
kambites said:
I think that 1% in 10 years is hard failures; it doesn't take into account loss of charge through "wear".
Most manufacturers seem to guarantee that the batteries will still hold a certain percentage of their new charge after a given period of time - for example I think for the i3, BMW guarantee at least 80% charge after 8 years or 100000 miles (whichever comes first). Of course how likely they are to fail shortly after that, is anyone's guess.
I suspect that fears over battery life will weigh on residuals for some time. It's a variable that has no core data yet so the market is sensible to be writing off the cost of replacement via residuals well within the timescales detailed by the manufacturers. Most manufacturers seem to guarantee that the batteries will still hold a certain percentage of their new charge after a given period of time - for example I think for the i3, BMW guarantee at least 80% charge after 8 years or 100000 miles (whichever comes first). Of course how likely they are to fail shortly after that, is anyone's guess.
This is probably the largest concern after range anxiety and unlike the latter is justifiable until proven otherwise.
Until there is data then the write downs could be advantageous to buyers willing to gamble as a market always over reacts and takes time to price accurately. After all, outside of the batteries general wear and tear issues will be much lower due to far fewer moving parts, particularly expensive ones.
Technomatt said:
Butter Face said:
Renault reckon the residual of a base model ZOE is around 38% after FOUR years.
If it's worth less you have it back.
And you get your servicing included for 4 years.
It's a deal, it's a steal etc
'Renault reckon'.....say no more If it's worth less you have it back.
And you get your servicing included for 4 years.
It's a deal, it's a steal etc
Renault do the free 4 year servicing on ALL vehicles, even ones with an ICE.
If it's worth less, you walk away. Amazing right?
You're correct in the servicing, does it make it more or less trivial than ICE servicing?
Once range gets up to a certain required level co car options are going to have only these me no fossil fuel cars to choose from.
As a tool to get you from A to B safely cheaply and in the required comfort and kit you want then its a no brainer. Then I can see specialist sports cars remaining in wonderful petrol highly strung for the track.
When will lorries also switch to electric? Instant high torque and essentially free fuel costs.... Everyone's shopping bill would drop dramatically
As a tool to get you from A to B safely cheaply and in the required comfort and kit you want then its a no brainer. Then I can see specialist sports cars remaining in wonderful petrol highly strung for the track.
When will lorries also switch to electric? Instant high torque and essentially free fuel costs.... Everyone's shopping bill would drop dramatically
Technomatt said:
And as Leaf drivers are now finding, fast charge depletes battery performance much faster than previously predicted.
Also, in the USA, Leaf owners are now getting wise to the EV pitfalls as Nissan is now looking for high monthly battery replacement fees to secure a battery replacemnt program.
You are Polly Toynbee AICMP. Also, in the USA, Leaf owners are now getting wise to the EV pitfalls as Nissan is now looking for high monthly battery replacement fees to secure a battery replacemnt program.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=B...
kambites said:
It's an interesting point. As EV sales start to rise and "regular maintenance costs" fall, the value of main dealer franchises is inevitably going to fall, possibly quite dramatically.
That`s sort of what I was saying above,By losing out on traditional profit markets they will be forced into other deviousness like securing their knowledge and technology to prevent competition,which will lead to increasing repair,part and service costs to balance it out.
you will end up visiting the dealer for a bulb!
If the figures are true after-sales is a main dealers biggest earner.
And while the failure rates for current EV`s are low that could be more to do with the type of person that buys one and the style in which those types of people generally drive.
A whole different world from being used like a normal car by a normal guy,regularly abused,thrashed and neglected.
Once enough of them are sold the failure to sold unit ratio will alter,
No bugger sells stuff that will cut their own throat.
DonkeyApple said:
Technomatt said:
And as Leaf drivers are now finding, fast charge depletes battery performance much faster than previously predicted.
Also, in the USA, Leaf owners are now getting wise to the EV pitfalls as Nissan is now looking for high monthly battery replacement fees to secure a battery replacemnt program.
You are Polly Toynbee AICMP. Also, in the USA, Leaf owners are now getting wise to the EV pitfalls as Nissan is now looking for high monthly battery replacement fees to secure a battery replacemnt program.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=B...
More importantly, significant assumptions in those predictions:
"The model also does not account for leaving the Leaf at 100% charge for significant periods of time (bad for the battery), frequent Quick Charging (bad for the battery), the average SOC the Leaf is kept at (lower is better, down to about 30%), the average depth of discharge (shallower is better), or the fact that the DOD will increase as the battery ages in order to cover the same distance on a charge."
Technomatt said:
DonkeyApple said:
Technomatt said:
And as Leaf drivers are now finding, fast charge depletes battery performance much faster than previously predicted.
Also, in the USA, Leaf owners are now getting wise to the EV pitfalls as Nissan is now looking for high monthly battery replacement fees to secure a battery replacemnt program.
You are Polly Toynbee AICMP. Also, in the USA, Leaf owners are now getting wise to the EV pitfalls as Nissan is now looking for high monthly battery replacement fees to secure a battery replacemnt program.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=B...
More importantly, significant assumptions in those predictions:
"The model also does not account for leaving the Leaf at 100% charge for significant periods of time (bad for the battery), frequent Quick Charging (bad for the battery), the average SOC the Leaf is kept at (lower is better, down to about 30%), the average depth of discharge (shallower is better), or the fact that the DOD will increase as the battery ages in order to cover the same distance on a charge."
Butter Face said:
Ok, Renault GUARANTEE it will be worth that (if you have it on a PCP agreement)
If it's worth less, you walk away. Amazing right?
You're correct in the servicing, does it make it more or less trivial than ICE servicing?
Remind us what the Renault Zoe battery leasing cost is again..... £85 per month on a 3 year contract. If it's worth less, you walk away. Amazing right?
You're correct in the servicing, does it make it more or less trivial than ICE servicing?
That's a lot of (equivalent) servicing. Not so amazing, right?
DonkeyApple said:
Technomatt said:
DonkeyApple said:
Technomatt said:
And as Leaf drivers are now finding, fast charge depletes battery performance much faster than previously predicted.
Also, in the USA, Leaf owners are now getting wise to the EV pitfalls as Nissan is now looking for high monthly battery replacement fees to secure a battery replacemnt program.
You are Polly Toynbee AICMP. Also, in the USA, Leaf owners are now getting wise to the EV pitfalls as Nissan is now looking for high monthly battery replacement fees to secure a battery replacemnt program.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=B...
More importantly, significant assumptions in those predictions:
"The model also does not account for leaving the Leaf at 100% charge for significant periods of time (bad for the battery), frequent Quick Charging (bad for the battery), the average SOC the Leaf is kept at (lower is better, down to about 30%), the average depth of discharge (shallower is better), or the fact that the DOD will increase as the battery ages in order to cover the same distance on a charge."
Technomatt said:
Butter Face said:
Ok, Renault GUARANTEE it will be worth that (if you have it on a PCP agreement)
If it's worth less, you walk away. Amazing right?
You're correct in the servicing, does it make it more or less trivial than ICE servicing?
Remind us what the Renault Zoe battery leasing cost is again..... £85 per month on a 3 year contract. If it's worth less, you walk away. Amazing right?
You're correct in the servicing, does it make it more or less trivial than ICE servicing?
That's a lot of (equivalent) servicing. Not so amazing, right?
The servicing is FOC on EV and ICE vehicles from Renault.
Technomatt said:
Well, if you have posted that data up as some form of positive battery sales pitch... do tell all
Such a silly lad. You can't even see the woods for the trees. Such is the way of the believer. Why does everything that I post have to favour EVs? If you weren't so blind you would see that I regularly discuss the failings. But you are too busy making stuff up and pushing your agenda to actually have anything constructive to put forward. Butter Face said:
Technomatt said:
Butter Face said:
Ok, Renault GUARANTEE it will be worth that (if you have it on a PCP agreement)
If it's worth less, you walk away. Amazing right?
You're correct in the servicing, does it make it more or less trivial than ICE servicing?
Remind us what the Renault Zoe battery leasing cost is again..... £85 per month on a 3 year contract. If it's worth less, you walk away. Amazing right?
You're correct in the servicing, does it make it more or less trivial than ICE servicing?
That's a lot of (equivalent) servicing. Not so amazing, right?
The servicing is FOC on EV and ICE vehicles from Renault.
It's also a lot of money to pay for a car that only does a realistic 70 miles in winter.
Technomatt said:
Butter Face said:
Technomatt said:
Butter Face said:
Ok, Renault GUARANTEE it will be worth that (if you have it on a PCP agreement)
If it's worth less, you walk away. Amazing right?
You're correct in the servicing, does it make it more or less trivial than ICE servicing?
Remind us what the Renault Zoe battery leasing cost is again..... £85 per month on a 3 year contract. If it's worth less, you walk away. Amazing right?
You're correct in the servicing, does it make it more or less trivial than ICE servicing?
That's a lot of (equivalent) servicing. Not so amazing, right?
The servicing is FOC on EV and ICE vehicles from Renault.
It's also a lot of money to pay for a car that only does a realistic 70 miles in winter.
But there's also people who spend £0000's upon £0000's on two seaters that they can't get their MIL in th back of. Horses for courses right.
But of course you're right Matt. You always are.
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