Alfa 159 as a daily commuter?
Discussion
Alfahorn said:
Advice, you don't know anything about me or my experience and knowledge of Alfas other than what you've clean from profile and what I've shared on here. I really wouldn't go down that road with me if I were you, it could you look very silly indeed.
Or what? You'll get upset on an internet forum? You are clearly attempted to write off the opinion of others that differs from yours.
That engine type is known to be troublesome
That engine type is known not to be terribly economical
High miles alfas are known not to hold their value.
End of.
Alfahorn said:
DMF and DPF issues are not unique to Fiat/Alfa. Certainly I'm not aware of any significant issues with DMF on Fiat/Alfa products...
To be fair, we suffered DMF failure and sticking EGR valve on my girlfriend's old 1.9 JTD Fiat Multipla (the latter is a a fairly cheap and easy fix, anyway). As Alfahorn says, neither is an issue limited to the Fiat/Alfa engine; they're a potential fact of life on all engines that use these features and are more mileage related than anything. I wouldn't allow myself to be put off buying an Alfa because of them, just perhaps something to bear in mind when you're checking the documentation for maintenance history?
Chapmanesque said:
I wouldn't allow myself to be put off buying an Alfa because of them, just perhaps something to bear in mind when you're checking the documentation for maintenance history?
+1And i have never said to the contrary.
As you say, its something to bear in mind if you are buying a car with say, 60K miles, than you might have a large bill or two coming up.
daemon said:
Alfahorn said:
Advice, you don't know anything about me or my experience and knowledge of Alfas other than what you've clean from profile and what I've shared on here. I really wouldn't go down that road with me if I were you, it could you look very silly indeed.
Or what? You'll get upset on an internet forum? You are clearly attempted to write off the opinion of others that differs from yours.
That engine type is known to be troublesome
That engine type is known not to be terribly economical
High miles alfas are known not to hold their value.
End of.
No, the engines are not generally troublesome. Yes, in some instances they could be more economical and yes, high mileage cars depreciate. Well done, that's not exactly rocket science.
As for getting upset. I won't get upset, I'm simply saying your trying to give the impression you know it all and I'm telling you you've no idea the extent of my knowledge on Alfa because I don't feel the need to shout about it to make myself and my views seem convincing.
Alfahorn said:
I right off the opinions of people do not know what their talking about. When you come here stating the Alfa diesel has a Vauxhall engine, it pretty much says it all.
It was an engine co-designed with Vauxhall during their tenure with FIAT. They have joint rights on the engine.I've already reiterated that.
You're arguing about semantics, frankly.
Alfahorn said:
No, the engines are not generally troublesome. Yes, in some instances they could be more economical and yes, high mileage cars depreciate. Well done, that's not exactly rocket science.
"sigh"So an alfa fanboys view is different from a motor traders AND a mechanics view of the world. I guess we shouldnt be surprised.
Yes, i am sure as an Alfa owner it suits to go for the "All cars depreciate" angle, however what i was saying is, that there are certain cars that people are happy to accept with a high mileage. There are others that have to be ridiculously cheap with high miles before you get a bite.
This could be the difference of several thousand pounds come resale, by chosing the "right" car over the "wrong" car with regards to depreciation.
Alfahorn said:
As for getting upset. I won't get upset, I'm simply saying your trying to give the impression you know it all and I'm telling you you've no idea the extent of my knowledge on Alfa because I don't feel the need to shout about it to make myself and my views seem convincing.
I'm not saying i know it all.What i do know is, the O/P asked opinions, relative to economy and reliability. I gave my opinion, based on years as a motor trader, and as someone who faced a similar decision several months ago, doing a similar commute.
You attempted to "write off" that viewpoint based on you saying that i cant possibly know ANYTHING because i said it was a Vauxhall engine - which is really a point of semantics given Vauxhall co-own the rights to the engines anyway.
GM did NOT co design the JTD engine, it predates the involvement of GM by about 3 to 4 years. The agreement between the two companies meant GM purchased the rights to some engine designs and started to manufacture a variant of the engine for their products.
I don't dismiss opinion, I challenge those that get their facts wrong, like you and you keep doing it.
I don't dismiss opinion, I challenge those that get their facts wrong, like you and you keep doing it.
Alfahorn said:
GM did NOT co design the JTD engine, it predates the involvement of GM by about 3 to 4 years. The agreement between the two companies meant GM purchased the rights to some engine designs and started to manufacture a variant of the engine for their products.
I don't dismiss opinion, I challenge those that get their facts wrong, like you and you keep doing it.
Ah, so you're back to the "you havent totally described the situation regarding an engine designed 15 years ago to my satisfaction therefore everything you say is false"?I don't dismiss opinion, I challenge those that get their facts wrong, like you and you keep doing it.
As i keep reiterating and you dont acknowldge :-
Its an engine known for reliability issues - the mechanic on this thread even goes so far as to say its "hateful"
Its not terribly economical.
Alfas are not known for their ability to hold on to their value when they have high miles.
Because i dont recall the exact nuances of the engines absolute history does not change that.
daemon said:
Ah, so you're back to the "you havent totally described the situation regarding an engine designed 15 years ago to my satisfaction therefore everything you say is false"?
As i keep reiterating and you dont acknowldge :-
Its an engine known for reliability issues - the mechanic on this thread even goes so far as to say its "hateful"
Its not terribly economical.
Alfas are not known for their ability to hold on to their value when they have high miles.
Because i dont recall the exact nuances of the engines absolute history does not change that.
But you saw fit to bring it up and when you're challenged again you effectively dismiss it as irrelevant. As i keep reiterating and you dont acknowldge :-
Its an engine known for reliability issues - the mechanic on this thread even goes so far as to say its "hateful"
Its not terribly economical.
Alfas are not known for their ability to hold on to their value when they have high miles.
Because i dont recall the exact nuances of the engines absolute history does not change that.
Alfahorn said:
daemon said:
Ah, so you're back to the "you havent totally described the situation regarding an engine designed 15 years ago to my satisfaction therefore everything you say is false"?
As i keep reiterating and you dont acknowldge :-
Its an engine known for reliability issues - the mechanic on this thread even goes so far as to say its "hateful"
Its not terribly economical.
Alfas are not known for their ability to hold on to their value when they have high miles.
Because i dont recall the exact nuances of the engines absolute history does not change that.
But you saw fit to bring it up and when you're challenged again you effectively dismiss it as irrelevant. As i keep reiterating and you dont acknowldge :-
Its an engine known for reliability issues - the mechanic on this thread even goes so far as to say its "hateful"
Its not terribly economical.
Alfas are not known for their ability to hold on to their value when they have high miles.
Because i dont recall the exact nuances of the engines absolute history does not change that.
You keep droning on about that i said it was a Vauxhall engine and not that it was a shared rights engine used across many platforms but designed by FIAT then ALL my views on the car in question should be dismissed.
Who f
king made the thing in the first place is largely irrelevant to the O/P, however the view that it isnt terribly reliable IS relevant to the O/P, because they are looking reliability and economy, neither of which the 1.9 JTD / CDTI is particularly good at. And the car that that particular engine is in, is not very good at retaining value with high miles.daemon said:
I saw fit to bring it up because its relevant that the engine in Alfas is effectively the same engine that is in various vauxhalls, fiats, and SAABs. This engine is known to be troublesome, both by the motor trade, and by those who physically have to work on them.
You keep droning on about that i said it was a Vauxhall engine and not that it was a shared rights engine used across many platforms but designed by FIAT then ALL my views on the car in question should be dismissed.
Who fking made the thing in the first place is largely irrelevant to the O/P, however the view that it isnt terribly reliable IS relevant to the O/P, because they are looking reliability and economy, neither of which the 1.9 JTD / CDTI is particularly good at. And the car that that particular engine is in, is not very good at retaining value with high miles.
You've gone from saying its relevant to its irrelevant in the space of the same post, you haven't got a fYou keep droning on about that i said it was a Vauxhall engine and not that it was a shared rights engine used across many platforms but designed by FIAT then ALL my views on the car in question should be dismissed.
Who f
king made the thing in the first place is largely irrelevant to the O/P, however the view that it isnt terribly reliable IS relevant to the O/P, because they are looking reliability and economy, neither of which the 1.9 JTD / CDTI is particularly good at. And the car that that particular engine is in, is not very good at retaining value with high miles.king clue mate. OP, I'm sorry your threads been hijacked somewhat.
To alay your concerns about reliability I've owned 2 JTD Alfas. I did 50,000 miles in the 156 and the Giulietta which is just turned 2 years old has covered 40,000 miles. I've never had a mechanical failure in either, they've both required nothing but routine maintenance. The 156 was more economical than the Giulietta, however I put this down in part to the fact that the Giulietta is a semi auto.
The 159 was a very well put together car. The only real weaknesses are; steering racks, if noisy this can be a costly repair. Tyre wear; the 159 particularly in TI spec is heavy and costly on tyres. The batteries on the 159 seem to drain very quickly if the car is left stood unused for a number of days and certainly colours can be quiet chippy; mainly reds and blacks. On white cars the stone guard on the rear arches can discolour and look shabby.
Make sure the car has a fully documented and verified service history. Don't worry about the miles, buy on condition and history and preferably with a few number of owners as possible.
There are some excellent Indy garages out there who can help you maintain the car at reasonable expense too. Good luck if you chose to take the plunge.
To alay your concerns about reliability I've owned 2 JTD Alfas. I did 50,000 miles in the 156 and the Giulietta which is just turned 2 years old has covered 40,000 miles. I've never had a mechanical failure in either, they've both required nothing but routine maintenance. The 156 was more economical than the Giulietta, however I put this down in part to the fact that the Giulietta is a semi auto.
The 159 was a very well put together car. The only real weaknesses are; steering racks, if noisy this can be a costly repair. Tyre wear; the 159 particularly in TI spec is heavy and costly on tyres. The batteries on the 159 seem to drain very quickly if the car is left stood unused for a number of days and certainly colours can be quiet chippy; mainly reds and blacks. On white cars the stone guard on the rear arches can discolour and look shabby.
Make sure the car has a fully documented and verified service history. Don't worry about the miles, buy on condition and history and preferably with a few number of owners as possible.
There are some excellent Indy garages out there who can help you maintain the car at reasonable expense too. Good luck if you chose to take the plunge.
Edited by Alfahorn on Sunday 23 February 14:51
Your best bet if you want to know about reliability is probably to look at the statistical databases published by companies like Warranty Direct. Even a mechanic's experiences are rarely going to be wide enough to give a meaningful statistical sample.
Unfortunately for the 159 (they don't break it down by engine) it doesn't look too pretty: http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search...
Bear in mind that the overall figure is a cost average, not a number of failures average. That's partly why the German cars fair so poorly on there - because OEM parts are so damned expensive.
Having said that, even the worst of modern cars are pretty damned reliable; the difference between the best and worst manufacturers has been constantly closing for decades.
Unfortunately for the 159 (they don't break it down by engine) it doesn't look too pretty: http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search...
Bear in mind that the overall figure is a cost average, not a number of failures average. That's partly why the German cars fair so poorly on there - because OEM parts are so damned expensive.
Having said that, even the worst of modern cars are pretty damned reliable; the difference between the best and worst manufacturers has been constantly closing for decades.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 23 February 15:35
kambites said:
Your best bet if you want to know about reliability is probably to look at the statistical databases published by companies like Warranty Direct. Even a mechanic's experiences are rarely going to be wide enough to give a meaningful statistical sample.
Unfortunately for the 159 (they don't break it down by engine) it doesn't look too pretty:
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search...
It makes interesting reading when you compare it with BMW, Audi & VW. Unfortunately for the 159 (they don't break it down by engine) it doesn't look too pretty:
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search...
Pooh said:
73mark said:
Alfa great to drive
A nightmare to own
Alfahorn is so far up his own a** it's laughable
I have had seven Alfas and none of them have been a nightmare, how many have you had?A nightmare to own
Alfahorn is so far up his own a** it's laughable
Alfahorn said:
kambites said:
Your best bet if you want to know about reliability is probably to look at the statistical databases published by companies like Warranty Direct. Even a mechanic's experiences are rarely going to be wide enough to give a meaningful statistical sample.
Unfortunately for the 159 (they don't break it down by engine) it doesn't look too pretty:
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search...
It makes interesting reading when you compare it with BMW, Audi & VW. Unfortunately for the 159 (they don't break it down by engine) it doesn't look too pretty:
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search...
It's not a 100% accurate representation of real running costs because there will be statistical differences in average mileages, types of driving, standards of maintenance, etc. (although some of the figures in question are listed if you dig) but it's about as good a starting point as there is.
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