Discussion
Leins said:
s m said:
Leins said:
Sold my CSL at the weekend as part of a bit of a car re-shuffle that's also seen my E30 Alpina go too, with only my Mini GP1 safe from the purge (a car I know the OP and myself share a liking for). Current values versus my own amount of use and cost of ownership had them done for unfortunately
Blimey - any replacements for the future?For now I've decided to shrink to a 2-car garage to cover the bases for what I really enjoy in the way of driving - a car for a bit of weekend back-road hooning (the Mini), and something for continental road-trips in the summer. Not fully decided on the latter, but in the possible mix are: RS2 / B5 RS4 / Alpina B8 Touring / Merc 500E / C43 Estate. I've still got the M5 for the moment, which could fulfill that role too, but these are all cars I've wanted to own for a long time so decided it's time for a change
CorvetteConvert said:
V8A*ndy said:
CorvetteConvert said:
V8A*ndy said:
I'd also take a punt on one of the limited run out edition E92s.
I just bought one of them! I hope it soars in value then!!!I was sniffing around for one of those run outs 500 in Electric red...
7 speed dsg.
Good choice the DCT is excellent.
CorvetteConvert said:
Am I the only person that thinks this car is now hideously overpriced for what you actually get? I had one (53 plate) for a year in 2006-2007 and sold it for £32,000 in mid-07. I made around £500 on it.
I hear they are fetching £65,000 now and for me that is just absurd. One is on sale for £80,000.
I realise there are many fans of this car who will disagree, but I did not rate mine anywhere near as highly as some do.
The gearbox was crap, the brakes very poor for the sort of car it is, it had nothing in the way of any real shove below 6,000 rpm and one of the main selling points, it's light weight, isn't that light when you consider than almost all of them had the no-cost options ticked. So the 1385 kgs claimed weight was usually more like 1450.
£65,000? Jeezuz, give me a 2012 997 turbo; or perhaps a 2012 Cayman S and a 200 bhp Caterham for the track any day instead!
997 Turbo? Contender for world's least engaging performance car. Not a charge that could be levelled at the CSL.I hear they are fetching £65,000 now and for me that is just absurd. One is on sale for £80,000.
I realise there are many fans of this car who will disagree, but I did not rate mine anywhere near as highly as some do.
The gearbox was crap, the brakes very poor for the sort of car it is, it had nothing in the way of any real shove below 6,000 rpm and one of the main selling points, it's light weight, isn't that light when you consider than almost all of them had the no-cost options ticked. So the 1385 kgs claimed weight was usually more like 1450.
£65,000? Jeezuz, give me a 2012 997 turbo; or perhaps a 2012 Cayman S and a 200 bhp Caterham for the track any day instead!
Engaging? My Fiat 126 was engaging.
The 911 turbo is rightly acknowledged world wide as one of the finest sports cars ever made and it still beats contenders all the time even now in tests.
I had a 993 turbo (nice) which the purists say was the best 911 turbo.
But the fact remains that the 997 and 991 turbo are far better cars. But overall, despite the engine being in the wrong place, as they say, no sane person would say the 911 turbo is not an incredible car.
The 911 turbo is rightly acknowledged world wide as one of the finest sports cars ever made and it still beats contenders all the time even now in tests.
I had a 993 turbo (nice) which the purists say was the best 911 turbo.
But the fact remains that the 997 and 991 turbo are far better cars. But overall, despite the engine being in the wrong place, as they say, no sane person would say the 911 turbo is not an incredible car.
Zod said:
yonex said:
Nickbrapp said:
65k can buy a hell of a lot of other cars that aren't tarted up rep mobiles. Wasn't the csl flawed from the start?
Have you driven one?
Nedzilla said:
Why does a 1960s Ferrari 250 GTO sell for £20m+ when a used £30k BMW M3 is a better car?
Because one is a highly desirable Ferrari 250 GTO and the other is a mass-produced, entry-level BMW M car that has likely been used and abused. I get the point you're trying to make, but your comparison is absurd.'Highly desirable', through rarity, but fatally flawed in real life, to actually use, as a sports car and slow as fk by modern standards.
Just as the E Type V12 I bought was slow and ponderous and over rated.
In fact there are diesel repmobiles faster to 60 and Golfs faster to 100 than that stupidly priced Ferrari 250.
To me they are bloody ugly too. The rose-tinted glasses do some crazy things.
Just as the E Type V12 I bought was slow and ponderous and over rated.
In fact there are diesel repmobiles faster to 60 and Golfs faster to 100 than that stupidly priced Ferrari 250.
To me they are bloody ugly too. The rose-tinted glasses do some crazy things.
CorvetteConvert said:
'Highly desirable', through rarity, but fatally flawed in real life, to actually use, as a sports car and slow as fk by modern standards.
Just as the E Type V12 I bought was slow and ponderous and over rated.
Fair point, that doesn't change their desirability though. Bear in mind the people paying those prices for these cars aren't going to track them or thrash them round their local B roads on a Sunday morning, they're bought because most people perceive them as things of beauty of a bygone era.Just as the E Type V12 I bought was slow and ponderous and over rated.
CorvetteConvert said:
In fact there are diesel repmobiles faster to 60 and Golfs faster to 100 than that stupidly priced Ferrari 250.
Granted, but your point is what exactly?In the last 5 years I've owned in this order an E46 M3, an E46 M3 CSL and an E30 M3 (still owned). When I was buying the CSL I took around 3 visits in my E46 M3 to test drive the CSL. My standard M3 was well maintained with all new bushes so I knew it was as good as it could be but it was still like a limo compared to the CSL. You simply could not fail to notice the weight difference and agility that the standard M3 simply didn't have (great though it was).It's laughable to read the CSL was just a tarted up M3, there was a huge number of mechanical, body and engine upgrades to the car which of course added to the original inflated sale price which got the road testers knickers in a twist in the first place, the car never stood a chance because of that. Remember the 'box was early technology as far as 'flappy paddle' road car gearboxes were concerned, I had a period mag that actually compared it favourably to the Aston Martin and Ferrari flappy paddle gear changes at the time calling them ponderously slow at changing. Only a fool would compare the SMG box (12+years old technology) to anything that came after....because that's progression....... saying it feels s
t compared to modern stuff is just silly.
My car had new cups on it and was extremely capable even with standard refurbished brakes, even when driven at high speeds never did I feel they were inadequate for spirited road use. Want to go racing? AP's aren't going to break the bank if you could afford one new or now. Simple. With good pads, good fluid and well maintained they were up to the task and compared to the rest of the special parts a minuscule issue....if at all.
The CSL is suitably rare (422 UK units - mass produced???) to be special and command whatever price the market is paying.
These £50k+ cars aren't your usual cars with average miles they are ultra low mile perfect specimens of a very special car that won't be seen again from BMW. There wasn't a massive options list on them anyway so even a specced up one is still lighter than a modern M3/4, and that would probably show chucking it around a track. It wont be as fast but it will 'feel' better and more lightfooted I'm sure.
To the OP, do you really think your new M with it's paint and low build actually means anything??!! My grandad used to have a fiesta flight limited edition, fancy paint, flash alloys and a sticker on the wing. It was still a fiesta.
I lost a couple of grand on mine simply because I spent that on refurbishing and maintaining the car due to my OCD(!) I spotted my childhood dream E30 M3 and needed a quick sale to catch it. I doubt I will ever sell the E30 and if I did I would probably lose money again simply because of my inability to leave anything alone on the car that I feel should be replaced or refurbished if it's less than perfect. Luckily making money from cars is very low on my list, enjoying certain cars is higher.....
t compared to modern stuff is just silly.My car had new cups on it and was extremely capable even with standard refurbished brakes, even when driven at high speeds never did I feel they were inadequate for spirited road use. Want to go racing? AP's aren't going to break the bank if you could afford one new or now. Simple. With good pads, good fluid and well maintained they were up to the task and compared to the rest of the special parts a minuscule issue....if at all.
The CSL is suitably rare (422 UK units - mass produced???) to be special and command whatever price the market is paying.
These £50k+ cars aren't your usual cars with average miles they are ultra low mile perfect specimens of a very special car that won't be seen again from BMW. There wasn't a massive options list on them anyway so even a specced up one is still lighter than a modern M3/4, and that would probably show chucking it around a track. It wont be as fast but it will 'feel' better and more lightfooted I'm sure.
To the OP, do you really think your new M with it's paint and low build actually means anything??!! My grandad used to have a fiesta flight limited edition, fancy paint, flash alloys and a sticker on the wing. It was still a fiesta.
I lost a couple of grand on mine simply because I spent that on refurbishing and maintaining the car due to my OCD(!) I spotted my childhood dream E30 M3 and needed a quick sale to catch it. I doubt I will ever sell the E30 and if I did I would probably lose money again simply because of my inability to leave anything alone on the car that I feel should be replaced or refurbished if it's less than perfect. Luckily making money from cars is very low on my list, enjoying certain cars is higher.....
I've never met a person who's driven both a standard E46 M3 and a CSL and not said they were like chalk and cheese.
I've never taken anyone for a spin in the CSL who's not left the car with a massive grin.
To describe them simply as a tarted up rep mobile is doing them a massive injustice. They are much more than the sum of the parts you can see. There is plenty under the skin that you don't see, and they make all the difference. What should they be worth? That's for the market to dictate, but at 12 years old these car remain real world quick and with GT3 in the stratosphere why shouldn't these also climb in value, they are probably the next best thing.
Look at the asking prices for a 968 Clubsport these days and tell me CSLs don't look great value.
Oh, and just look at them.
I've never taken anyone for a spin in the CSL who's not left the car with a massive grin.
To describe them simply as a tarted up rep mobile is doing them a massive injustice. They are much more than the sum of the parts you can see. There is plenty under the skin that you don't see, and they make all the difference. What should they be worth? That's for the market to dictate, but at 12 years old these car remain real world quick and with GT3 in the stratosphere why shouldn't these also climb in value, they are probably the next best thing.
Look at the asking prices for a 968 Clubsport these days and tell me CSLs don't look great value.
Oh, and just look at them.
cerb4.5lee said:
No that version has some torque...this is the V8 petrol model that doesn't come with any! 
As for the M3 CSL, I do really like it. I'm not sure if it's worth the prices being asked now in a material sense (how many are actually selling at the figures they're advertised for?). I'm not sure the drive is quite worth it either and I think some people are pegging it as the next 964 RS; a bit of an unloved model when it came out that garnered praise from owners as the years went by and suddenly rocketed in value when the bubble arrived. I don't know if BMW have the cachet with collectors to really get the wallets to open to silly amounts. The 911's were always sports cars first, and rare special editions afterwards - but even on this thread, the CSL gets derided somewhat for being a hotted up three series.
All that aside, I really like the sound of them. A transmission that is slightly coarse and needs a bit of effort to get the best from it, a great noise, superb handling and an engine that loves to rev round the clock. It's got some great ingredients, I'd love to have a ride in one at some point to see how different they are from a usual M3, but with more and more CSL's going to collector's garages, that ship has probably sailed and fewer and fewer will be given proper use.
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