RE: New Aston Martin V12 teased

[Mr Tidy]

Speedraser said:

I'm an owner, so I'll put you right. Astons are currently the best looking cars on sale in my and many other people's opinion, and they look less like each other than current Benzes, BMWs, Audis, etc.

The V12s are so much more than two V6s stuck together -- there are some similarities, but they are absolutely their own engines. Oh, and the V8 has nothing to do with the V6 (and shares nothing with the Jag V8 either). Astons are wonderful -- great to drive, beautifully made, stunning to look at, and they are among the few cars to still offer real character. They are truly in a different league from Benz, BMW, Jaguar, Porsche, etc. If you don't get it, that's fine -- they're not for everyone -- but they are very special things and I'm privileged to be an owner.

Thanks, that is PH at it's best!

A useful insight from a current owner!

And I agree completely with stunning to look at - hope you keep enjoying yours

[lamby]

nothing wrong with feeling starry eyed, i smile ever time i walk to mine. The engine note is sublime and i love even blipping through the traffic to hear it. The Vantage V8 in my eyes is one of the best proportioned, most beautiful cars ever built. I can now say ive owned one, and im glad of it... definitely a bucket list box more than ticked! Mine below!

[AMDBSNick]

Mr Tidy said:

And surely that is the whole point - current turbo-boll*x garbage is what it says on the tin (if the manufacturers were being vaguely honest for once)!

I think I need to look for a TVR!

As for any Aston Martin, well they all look pretty much the same, have a version of the 2 x Mondeo V6 engine but get product placement in a certain series of films to lift their profile beyond what is possibly justified??! Any owners please put us right, assuming we have missed something!

From a BMW owner

[iwantcheese5]

smilo996 said:

After all Cosworth is less than an hour away and Ricardo less than 3....

Ricardo also have a site 15 mins away from Gaydon.

[Zod]

AMDBSNick said:

Mr Tidy said:

And surely that is the whole point - current turbo-boll*x garbage is what it says on the tin (if the manufacturers were being vaguely honest for once)!

I think I need to look for a TVR!

As for any Aston Martin, well they all look pretty much the same, have a version of the 2 x Mondeo V6 engine but get product placement in a certain series of films to lift their profile beyond what is possibly justified??! Any owners please put us right, assuming we have missed something!

From a BMW owner

He's never been near one. I used to say that they looked and sounded nice, but I couldn't see the point. Then I ended up with one as a replacement car for a few days and the scales fell from my eyes.

[VanquishRider]

Zod said:

AMDBSNick said:

Mr Tidy said:

And surely that is the whole point - current turbo-boll*x garbage is what it says on the tin (if the manufacturers were being vaguely honest for once)!

I think I need to look for a TVR!

As for any Aston Martin, well they all look pretty much the same, have a version of the 2 x Mondeo V6 engine but get product placement in a certain series of films to lift their profile beyond what is possibly justified??! Any owners please put us right, assuming we have missed something!

From a BMW owner

He's never been near one. I used to say that they looked and sounded nice, but I couldn't see the point. Then I ended up with one as a replacement car for a few days and the scales fell from my eyes.

I have never returned to the place where I have parked my Porsche to find a crowd round it. I have also spent weekends with PCGB and had two 911GTS's and a GT3 with us and still not returned to a crowd round a car park full of Porsche's. I'm fairly sure they all do look the same, but my eyes are failing. As for BMW, the guy who sits next to me in the office got rather upset that no one noticed his new 5 series in the car park. Well it was nearly the same colour as his old 3 series. What did he expect? New E class? Well Autocar said they needed to see it from a side view to see the extra wheelbase to tell them apart from a C Class.

Do Aston's all look the same? I'm pretty sure my Vanquish is a whole lot different to the current Vanquish. But as I have said my eyes are not as good as they used to be. And I do think my wife continues to get more beautiful despite the extra years.

Also AMG, what is not to like about AML needing their electrical architecture? It is about the best out there isn't it?

Would it matter if they used their screen or an iPod screen? What it looks like after programming will matter most to me. And I will judge that when we see the real thing. It might be analogue yet, but I doubt it.

Oh, suppose BMW, Porsche, Audi, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati and Jaguar L/R have all sold their souls to Bosch, ZF, Getrag, and NGK for using their parts somewhere in their cars? Let's not mention tyres....

I strongly suspect that Ricardo have had a high degree of input in that Turbo V12 as they are very familiar with it already.

I wonder, do any British Engineers work for BMW, Porsche, Audi, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati and AMG etc? Pretty sure these Isles have a very healthy presence in those companies actually.

I sometimes go in the garage just to look at my Vanquish, sad but true. Bet you never look back at that BMW eurobox do you???

Just saying...

Edited by VanquishRider on Tuesday 12th January 12:36

[Zod]

Exactly. I loved my M5, but I never just went into the garage to look at it. I never had people taking photographs (not that I particularly enjoy it). I never got people coming over at petrol stations or in car parks just to say how lovely it was or thumbs up from other drivers or pedestrians or even cyclists(!).

[Mosdef]

Speedraser said:

I'm an owner, so I'll put you right. Astons are currently the best looking cars on sale in my and many other people's opinion, and they look less like each other than current Benzes, BMWs, Audis, etc.

The V12s are so much more than two V6s stuck together -- there are some similarities, but they are absolutely their own engines. Oh, and the V8 has nothing to do with the V6 (and shares nothing with the Jag V8 either). Astons are wonderful -- great to drive, beautifully made, stunning to look at, and they are among the few cars to still offer real character. They are truly in a different league from Benz, BMW, Jaguar, Porsche, etc. If you don't get it, that's fine -- they're not for everyone -- but they are very special things and I'm privileged to be an owner.

The later V12s have been great but the earliest versions were pretty woeful in my experience (and only had just over twice the output of the Duratec engine...still, at least it was bespoke ;-)). I didn't rate the V12 until I tried it in a late model DBS.

Not quite sure about the beautifully made bit but hopefully that will improve if resources can be reallocated to that rather than dealing with electrics for example.

[Bobley]

VanquishRider said:

I strongly suspect that Ricardo have had a high degree of input in that Turbo V12 as they are very familiar with it already.

I strongly suspect they didn't.

VanquishRider said:

I wonder, do any British Engineers work for BMW, Porsche, Audi, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati and AMG etc? Pretty sure these Isles have a very healthy presence in those companies actually.

Wonder no more. Us British engineers do rather well all over the world from the auto industry but especially in Germany.

[Mosdef]

VanquishRider said:

I sometimes go in the garage just to look at my Vanquish, sad but true. Bet you never look back at that BMW eurobox do you???

Just saying...

Edited by VanquishRider on Tuesday 12th January 12:36

Nothing sad about that, it's a beautiful car.

[smilo996]

Matt Bird said:

Hi all,

Just to say we've had a call from Aston to say the engine share absolutely nothing with any Mercedes engine. It is an all-new unit entirely of Aston Martin design. Thought you might like to know...


Matt

The engine shares nothing with a Mercedes engine but it is a regular AMG engine. AMG is owned by Merc. Merc and AMG share many things though perhaps not the exact capacity of engine.
So really what is the difference? It is like saying VW don't put Bentley engines in its cars but both happen to use a W16. As fewer and fewer people in the UK work in manufacturing then it becomes less important until the next financial recession.

As an AMG unit, the engine management will be Bosch, the gear box ZF, the turbos and related architecture Borg Warner, the behind the scenes electronics Bosch and the axles AMG.
Seems Aston are goin to Lextv in China for dash electronics.

[CSK1]

smilo996 said:

It is like saying VW don't put Bentley engines in its cars.

Er... It is actually the other way round.
Whatever the V12 in the DB11 won't be Merc nor AMG but an evolution of the existing V12 unit.

[RoverP6B]

Several things to contradict here.

The AM V8 is a Jaguar AJ-V8, based on the GenII block (i.e. the 4.2 found in the X350 XJ), bored out to 4.3, then stroked out to 4.7 litres.

Mercedes-Benz don't use ZF transmissions. BMW and Audi do, however.

We haven't got used to turbos in F1. That change remains deeply unpopular.

[Hellem1]

smilo996 said:
After all Cosworth is less than an hour away and Ricardo less than 3....
Ricardo also have a site 15 mins away from Gaydon.

Well my bet is on Ricardo will produce this a McLarenV8 based V12.
Just to recall the history of the McLaren V8. McLaren bought plans, engines etc. from the Wilkenshaw Racing liquidation sale. Wilkenshaw Racing had a contract to develop and produce this engine for FIA GT racing from Nissan. McLaren took all they bought and gave it to Ricardo to produce their sports car engine.
Like Aston McLaren does not have little engine design let-alone engine manufacturing capacity. This deal will allow Aston to put a proven but custom engine in their new high end car. It also allows Recardo production to deliver a competitive package for those two customers.

Just one word about Dr.Batz: the sourcing of the V12 and V8 was urgent (the old V8 passes none of the standard) Aston was part of the Ford empire so what's easier then to base their V12/V8 on "ECOLINE" (I think it was called) Ford "world engine" produced and assembled in Ford Cologne. Batz didn't have a choice but to rely on the Ford parts bin.

[jonby]

smilo996 said:

Matt Bird said:

Hi all,

Just to say we've had a call from Aston to say the engine share absolutely nothing with any Mercedes engine. It is an all-new unit entirely of Aston Martin design. Thought you might like to know...


Matt

The engine shares nothing with a Mercedes engine but it is a regular AMG engine. AMG is owned by Merc. Merc and AMG share many things though perhaps not the exact capacity of engine.
.

The forthcoming V8 to be used by AML will be an AMG unit

The twin turbo V12 has nothing whatsoever to do with AMG or Mercedes on an level. It's a significant development of the existing V12 which has been created at the plant where the existing V12 is made. This has been known about, by some, for many months. That is of course putting to one side the fact that AMG don't/haven't/won't make a 5.2 litre capacity V12

[RoverP6B]

The plant where the existing V12 is made - that'd be Ford in Köln, then?

[McSam]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I drove a supercharged 4.3 Vantage with 600Nm and 580bhp yesterday. It had done 55,000 miles on its clutch in that tune, and being used as a demo car by the tuner I'm sure it sees no end of abuse. It felt absolutely spot on.

The ASM uses them at a reasonable rate because of the way it operates, but the manuals are fine.

[Hellbound]

Bobley said:

Wonder no more. Us British engineers do rather well all over the world from the auto industry but especially in Germany.

I'd also like to say Germany has next to no University tuition fees (I believe there are admin fees which vary from place to place). Any one of us could go over there and study Engineering, taught in English at a very reputable institution (providing you have relevant experience and/or qualifications for entry) and not pay for anything more than accommodation, food and other costs like materials and books. More and more students from all over the world are choosing to study in Germany and I've even looked into further education over there myself (I'm in my 30's).

So it's perfectly reasonable that a German company would want their GLOBAL community of German educated engineers to actually have jobs to go to after they graduate. That way they can enrich the country by being productive, export Germany culture and most importantly, pay back into the system that gave them the opportunity in the first place.

Also, AMG = Aston Martin Germany.

[justin220]

^thats just typical Internet scare mongering though. I've owned two and neither have needed a clutch. I just haven't posted so all over the internet.

Dig deep enough and you'll find horror stories about all marques.

Ferrari catching fire
GT3 catching fire
GTR 12k repair bill due to its pedestrian safety system etc..

[smilo996]

Wel lthis is even more confusing:

According to Car "Our sources suggest the 5.2 will become the company's most powerful V12 in history, despite the reduction in capacity; the twin turbochargers mean that its power output will be in excess of 600bhp. It will again be built in Cologne, at Aston's engine plant in Ford's factory.

So it is all Aston's own work. They will take V8's from AMG. However someone who worked for Aston said they would continue their own V8 and be producing a new V8. Unless it started as am AMG V12 and is being licensed and modified by Aston.

Given the V12 it is hardly a difficult job to lop four cylinders off. In manufacturing terms it is easy. Capacity at Fawd in Cologne likely to be the only issue.

So what are they getting from AMG?