Sychophantic (and biased) motoring media?
Discussion
Mr2Mike said:
twoblacklines said:
For example AUDI are brilliant but all they get is hate and "go buy a bmw instead innit" comments.
That's because BMWs are (or at least have been) far better drivers cars than anything equivalent that Audi makes.Escort3500 said:
Mr2Mike said:
twoblacklines said:
For example AUDI are brilliant but all they get is hate and "go buy a bmw instead innit" comments.
That's because BMWs are (or at least have been) far better drivers cars than anything equivalent that Audi makes.Yep, it's always impressed me how the 1-Series offers a more rewarding drive than the R8
OP, seem to remember same accusations being thrown around when I was reading the magazines in the late 80's/early 90's...not that I saying they're misplaced...
Edit: apologies if that random 'p' is missing a ':' prefix and your comment was in jest
Edited by DrTre on Saturday 23 January 20:31
DrTre said:
Escort3500 said:
Mr2Mike said:
twoblacklines said:
For example AUDI are brilliant but all they get is hate and "go buy a bmw instead innit" comments.
That's because BMWs are (or at least have been) far better drivers cars than anything equivalent that Audi makes.Yep, it's always impressed me how the 1-Series offers a more rewarding drive than the R8
OP, seem to remember same accusations being thrown around when I was reading the magazines in the late 80's/early 90's...not that I saying they're misplaced...
Edited by DrTre on Saturday 23 January 20:28
. It's. Been. A. Long. Day GreenArrow said:
. Does anyone else feel that the motoring press are increasingly lazy these days and particularly biased towards their favourite brands?
No. I feel that a) a lot of people on internet sites have their own deep-seated prejudices which they don't like to have challenged b) many of the same people wrongly assume that any of this matters.Yeh pretty much 
not really a carp angler as such I just enjoy fishing for anything to be fair, rather than chuck in 35 kilos of bait and sit there for days on end I'm happy enough bagging up on snotty bream roach tench and Rudd if nothing else is coming out can't beat a bit of float fishing tbh
not really a carp angler as such I just enjoy fishing for anything to be fair, rather than chuck in 35 kilos of bait and sit there for days on end I'm happy enough bagging up on snotty bream roach tench and Rudd if nothing else is coming out can't beat a bit of float fishing tbh 
. Do you still drive a sDrTre said:
I don't have a dog in the race but you might have missed the word "equivalent" in there.
OP, seem to remember same accusations being thrown around when I was reading the magazines in the late 80's/early 90's...not that I saying they're misplaced...
Edit: apologies if that random 'p' is missing a ':' prefix and your comment was in jest
The only equivalent BMW to an R8 is...the i8 which is nothing like it.OP, seem to remember same accusations being thrown around when I was reading the magazines in the late 80's/early 90's...not that I saying they're misplaced...
Edit: apologies if that random 'p' is missing a ':' prefix and your comment was in jest
Edited by DrTre on Saturday 23 January 20:31
twoblacklines said:
The only equivalent BMW to an R8 is...the i8 which is nothing like it.
If it helps chap, I've a story for you, apologies it's longer than intended.Nearly a year ago I started a hunt for a 'fun' car. I'd been tractoring about for 3 years in a BMW 120d up and down the country, a change of job meant that I was going to be commuting locally and that meant I no longer had a diesel requirement. However, the reason the 120d is important to this story - it was everything a car you spend a lot of time in should be - reliable, comfortable, quiet, good feedback, that kind of thing - and I'll admit, come the weekend, I did enjoy flinging it round a corner from time to time - bloody great chassis, boring engine, what can I say.
Anyway, I had a short list of criteria in the following order:
Fun
Quick
Reasonably practical
Able to return 25mpg if required.
Now. I have a deep seated problem. I like estate cars, just can't get enough of them. It left me with a purchasing quandary, you guessed it, who makes fun, quick estates?
Obviously I took out another BMW with a big petrol engine (I was bored of the same old dash and whatnot), didn't fancy a Merc, toyed with the idea of a ZT260, then sobered up, you know the drill.
Anyway, a few years back I'd given an S3 a go, and found it lacking, but recalled it was quite nice inside, so I looked up what I could afford in an S6 - what's not to like? A revvy V8, reasonably handsome looking, plenty of equipment, 340ish bhp, awd, suportive comfy seats. There were a couple locally, so out we went on a few roads I know quite well, the sales chap quite happy for me to have a play and whatnot, and do you know what I found?
A heavy, dead feeling, surprisingly unsprightly feeling, lump of a car. Don't get me wrong, the numbers on the dash told me that things were happening, likewise the scenery going past quicker etc. but it felt dead, numb, remote, over thereish. I was actually disappointed, as on the forecourt, it did all the right things. So much so, I tried another, which also felt the same. So, I surmised that unless I'd managed to find two very tidy but broken ones, this was not the car for me.
Also had a quick go in an RS6 of the same kind of age. Once again all the right things were on the sales card and on the badges - V8, Turbos, lots of equipment etc etc. and the look of it, with its arches all bulgy and winking at me, made the right noises, oooh I was looking forward to it. However come test drive, lots of numbers on the dash, blurry scenery, very impressive sweep of the needle, but once again, cold, dead, numb and lacking any real feedback. There I was hoping for the experience to be great as the car ticked all the boxes, but it was not to be.
Anyway, my search went on, and after much headscratching, research and investigation went for something with 10 less horsepower, and nearly 500kg less weight, a lot less errm, refined, and an immeasurable amount more fun.
My overall point being, despite the press singing their praises, despite the roads being awash with them, all of the Audis I've had the chance to drive have been to me, a bit of a dull, dynamically lacking, numb experience. No tingle, no fizz, not one single bit of hyperbole to exclaim. Very good cars no doubt, but not for me, not an enthusiasts choice.
So given the choice between an R8 and something equivalent - I'll take the equivalent, having never driven the R8, but liking the idea of the V10 variant - perhaps I'd give an older Gallardo a go, or maybe because I'm wired that way, something a bit rawer and more analogue feeling, not that I know what a Gallardo feels like, but something angry and aggressive, something you wouldn't introduce to your mum.
For the OP - yes, the media will always suck up to the marketing teams with the best junkets. Do your own research, and don't believe most of the stuff you read, and that goes double for anything someone is paid to write, on a junket on the manufacturers' dime.
spreadsheet monkey said:
And this from Jack Baruth.
http://www.speedsportlife.com/2010/02/21/avoidable...
“If Woodward and Bernstein had been automotive journalists, the Watergate story would have been a five-star review of Richard Nixon’s personal tape recorder]
He did a piece on how to become an erstwhile motor-noter too: http://www.speedsportlife.com/2010/04/23/avoidable...http://www.speedsportlife.com/2010/02/21/avoidable...
“If Woodward and Bernstein had been automotive journalists, the Watergate story would have been a five-star review of Richard Nixon’s personal tape recorder]
EnglishTony said:
The most sychophantic & biased motoring media I've ever experienced is in Germany. Be grateful for the internet & the opportunity to read tests written by British motoring journalists. I am.*
The second person who cannot spell sycophant. Write it out one hundred times and leave on my desk after class.
The second person who cannot spell sycophant. Write it out one hundred times and leave on my desk after class.
rodericb said:
spreadsheet monkey said:
And this from Jack Baruth.
http://www.speedsportlife.com/2010/02/21/avoidable...
“If Woodward and Bernstein had been automotive journalists, the Watergate story would have been a five-star review of Richard Nixon’s personal tape recorder]
He did a piece on how to become an erstwhile motor-noter too: http://www.speedsportlife.com/2010/04/23/avoidable...http://www.speedsportlife.com/2010/02/21/avoidable...
“If Woodward and Bernstein had been automotive journalists, the Watergate story would have been a five-star review of Richard Nixon’s personal tape recorder]
But his writing style is unique and compelling. He writes a lot about Porsches and expensive watches and the flaws of both of them. I think he'd be a good fit for PH, but it'll never happen.
This is one of my favourite pieces of his:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/avoidable...
In 1995 you couldn't find a Clio Williams to test. I ordered one based on the reviews. These included statements inferring you could live with a Ferrari 512 over a B road. The Williams was, all that plus a bag of chips. I sold my (then mint) 1.9 Gti to pay for my Williams 3.
I know you shouldn't compare new with used but I thought it was a MASSIVE sideways step. It wasn't faster than the 1.9 or better in any noticeable way. It certainly didn't feel worth the extra £7k I parted with over the value of the 205.
This was the era where a few years earlier the Fiat Tipo 16v was rated as the best hot hatch you could buy according to many motoring mags. When was the last time you read a thread on PH regarding anyone wanting one of those?
The magazines are fickle. Autocar and Evo have history of giving rave 'first drive' stories,only for the same cars to finish poorly,in group tests later on. Large pinch of salt. I'd never buy based on reviews again.
I know you shouldn't compare new with used but I thought it was a MASSIVE sideways step. It wasn't faster than the 1.9 or better in any noticeable way. It certainly didn't feel worth the extra £7k I parted with over the value of the 205.
This was the era where a few years earlier the Fiat Tipo 16v was rated as the best hot hatch you could buy according to many motoring mags. When was the last time you read a thread on PH regarding anyone wanting one of those?
The magazines are fickle. Autocar and Evo have history of giving rave 'first drive' stories,only for the same cars to finish poorly,in group tests later on. Large pinch of salt. I'd never buy based on reviews again.
Most people buy what they are told by third parties is right for them. Manufacturers naturally invest a lot of money and effort in ensuring these third parties are telling people to buy their products.
Very few people make a purchase of a visible product without any reference to the concept of how they will be perceived in the public domain. It's human nature.
Few people test drive cars. They buy the most prestigious badge that is on the lease list for their budget. All the journo guff and hard work by manufacturers in promoting brand ethos is just to ensure that its their brand that is opted for when looking at the price list.
And out of the people who do test cars an awful lot seem to do a test drive that sees them drive home and see how the car looks on their driveway.
I think that most people buy cars today the same way people buy jeans. They either buy the cheapest pair that does the basic job of being a trouser, or they buy the same as everyone else so as to just fit in and in the assured belief that as they are the most popular they must be pretty good, or they look at publications and media to find out what pair of jeans have the coolest and most prestigious image for their buying power. Three different types of buyers for a pretty uniform type of product. Most of us give the George jeans a swerve, think the Armani ones are a bit silly and plumb every time for the middle of the road Levi or Gap jean. Which currently in car terms is a German car. Nothing flash, does the job, doesn't look too cheap and blends in with the masses.
Very few people make a purchase of a visible product without any reference to the concept of how they will be perceived in the public domain. It's human nature.
Few people test drive cars. They buy the most prestigious badge that is on the lease list for their budget. All the journo guff and hard work by manufacturers in promoting brand ethos is just to ensure that its their brand that is opted for when looking at the price list.
And out of the people who do test cars an awful lot seem to do a test drive that sees them drive home and see how the car looks on their driveway.
I think that most people buy cars today the same way people buy jeans. They either buy the cheapest pair that does the basic job of being a trouser, or they buy the same as everyone else so as to just fit in and in the assured belief that as they are the most popular they must be pretty good, or they look at publications and media to find out what pair of jeans have the coolest and most prestigious image for their buying power. Three different types of buyers for a pretty uniform type of product. Most of us give the George jeans a swerve, think the Armani ones are a bit silly and plumb every time for the middle of the road Levi or Gap jean. Which currently in car terms is a German car. Nothing flash, does the job, doesn't look too cheap and blends in with the masses.
highway said:
In 1995 you couldn't find a Clio Williams to test. I ordered one based on the reviews. These included statements inferring you could live with a Ferrari 512 over a B road. The Williams was, all that plus a bag of chips. I sold my (then mint) 1.9 Gti to pay for my Williams 3.
I know you shouldn't compare new with used but I thought it was a MASSIVE sideways step. It wasn't faster than the 1.9 or better in any noticeable way. It certainly didn't feel worth the extra £7k I parted with over the value of the 205.
This was the era where a few years earlier the Fiat Tipo 16v was rated as the best hot hatch you could buy according to many motoring mags. When was the last time you read a thread on PH regarding anyone wanting one of those?
The magazines are fickle. Autocar and Evo have history of giving rave 'first drive' stories,only for the same cars to finish poorly,in group tests later on. Large pinch of salt. I'd never buy based on reviews again.
Very true, people tend to have selective memories regarding car reviews I know you shouldn't compare new with used but I thought it was a MASSIVE sideways step. It wasn't faster than the 1.9 or better in any noticeable way. It certainly didn't feel worth the extra £7k I parted with over the value of the 205.
This was the era where a few years earlier the Fiat Tipo 16v was rated as the best hot hatch you could buy according to many motoring mags. When was the last time you read a thread on PH regarding anyone wanting one of those?
The magazines are fickle. Autocar and Evo have history of giving rave 'first drive' stories,only for the same cars to finish poorly,in group tests later on. Large pinch of salt. I'd never buy based on reviews again.
s m said:
highway said:
In 1995 you couldn't find a Clio Williams to test. I ordered one based on the reviews. These included statements inferring you could live with a Ferrari 512 over a B road. The Williams was, all that plus a bag of chips. I sold my (then mint) 1.9 Gti to pay for my Williams 3.
I know you shouldn't compare new with used but I thought it was a MASSIVE sideways step. It wasn't faster than the 1.9 or better in any noticeable way. It certainly didn't feel worth the extra £7k I parted with over the value of the 205.
This was the era where a few years earlier the Fiat Tipo 16v was rated as the best hot hatch you could buy according to many motoring mags. When was the last time you read a thread on PH regarding anyone wanting one of those?
The magazines are fickle. Autocar and Evo have history of giving rave 'first drive' stories,only for the same cars to finish poorly,in group tests later on. Large pinch of salt. I'd never buy based on reviews again.
Very true, people tend to have selective memories regarding car reviews I know you shouldn't compare new with used but I thought it was a MASSIVE sideways step. It wasn't faster than the 1.9 or better in any noticeable way. It certainly didn't feel worth the extra £7k I parted with over the value of the 205.
This was the era where a few years earlier the Fiat Tipo 16v was rated as the best hot hatch you could buy according to many motoring mags. When was the last time you read a thread on PH regarding anyone wanting one of those?
The magazines are fickle. Autocar and Evo have history of giving rave 'first drive' stories,only for the same cars to finish poorly,in group tests later on. Large pinch of salt. I'd never buy based on reviews again.
I genuinely can't think of any examples where there has been a significant change in press reviews over time.
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