RE: Ford Focus RS at the 'ring: Time For Coffee

[nickfrog]

Ahbefive said:

Too late, already looking to return.

Sorry to hear that

Try DN events, it really is a great way to do it and obviously removes the third party liability element... Other TDOs are available though !

[ChrisBuer]

I picked up my RS a month ago and I'm enjoying it way more than my previous two cars - Lotus Exige V6 and BMW 1M.

Having had a run of Lotus Exiges and Elises, with a Caterham thrown in as well, it's fair to say I like good handing cars that are involving to drive. However with an increasing family, I needed something practical to use throughout the year and the RS ticked all of the boxes (4 seats, AWD, manual gearbox, etc).

The RS is a lot of fun! The steering is very sharp, the grip incredible and it just puts a massive smile on my face. Ring times are not something that ever factored in my decision making process, but rather smiles per miles and the RS has it in spades.

[Blaster72]

RacerMike said:

Sorry, not sorry for the self promotion here, but I went there in April in my car with the Mountune FPM375 upgrade. Had it not been for a pesky couple of slow BMWs, this lap *should* have been a touch quicker than Gebhardts lap. At this point, I'd done around 5-6 laps already (1 other proper hot lap attempt which got more heavily ruined by traffic) so the tyres (Cup2s) weren't at their best, so, with a brand new set of tyres, a completely clear track and ideal temperature, I'm pretty confident it would do just under 8mins.

I may yet go back again with a new set of tyres, but ultimately, it ends up being a £2k weekend.....which is a lot of money for a few laps of a German circuit...

8min12sec Full Lap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGHtLtqdEFo

Very nicely done Sir! Really enjoyed watching that lap.

[Ahbefive]

That is indeed very impressive.

[Yipper]

The new FRS remains the most overhyped car of the decade. It looks ugly, the interior is not great, and it is not especially fast on the straights or twisties.

[DeolTheBeast]

Yipper said:

The new FRS remains the most overhyped car of the decade. It looks ugly, the interior is not great, and it is not especially fast on the straights or twisties.

I didn't know it was put on such high pedestal of expectation, just seemed like a new FRS... a halo model performance Ford, no more or less.

It's still a good alternative for a Golf R, RS3 etc etc

[Ahbefive]

Yipper said:

The new FRS remains the most overhyped car of the decade. It looks ugly, the interior is not great, and it is not especially fast on the straights or twisties.

Looks great, interior is typical modern Ford but with lovely seats and steering wheel, 8m06 in the "twisties" is indeed very quick. So all your points are tosh.

More importantly than all that is that it is a great fun car to drive and for the money is hard to beat. Add to that it is faring better than pretty much any car in its price range in regards to lack of depreciation.

I'd be interested to hear what brand new 5door cars in the same price range you prefer but then I doubt you have any actual experience of the RS to share anyway.

Edited by Ahbefive on Thursday 20th July 19:39

[Rawwr]

Yipper said:

It looks ugly,

Subjective.

Yipper said:

the interior is not great,

It's totally fine.

Yipper said:

and it is not especially fast on the straights or twisties.

Yes it is.

Another day, another Yipper horsesh*t moment.

[Kawasicki]

havoc said:

scherzkeks said:

Alex said:

Kawasicki said:

Repeat after me....

The 'Ring is bumpy
The 'Ring is bumpy
The 'Ring is bumpy
...

Compared to a regular race track it is, but not when compared to a B-road (especially in the UK!). The 'Ring is pretty smooth.

So are most roads in Germany. The Ring is a perfect test facility for pushing road cars to their limits.

The funny part is that in the SA article, the author claims the hard damper setting is too hard for the Ring and the soft too plush. Ford also said they didn't really focus on Ring testing.

Typical speeds at the 'ring, even for a hot-hatch, are c.100mph or so.

So a car 'set-up' at the 'ring will be set-up to deal well with 3-figure speeds and fast corners, all on reasonably unbroken tarmac. All of this leads to stiffer suspension, both in compression and rebound, to give better car-control (and less pitch/roll), and therefore get a better lap-time.

Now compare to how most buyers will use their cars - 50-80mph is a typical 'window' of fun speeds in the UK, often on twisty minor-A and B-roads. Rather different, eh? And requiring a different suspension approach - something with progressive springs and (much) softer rebound would probably suit a UK back-road blast perfectly.

And it's not just the UK back-roads that are a mess - go to (most of) Belgium, go to parts of France, parts of Italy...


...so we're facing a situation (have been for ~10 years) where manufacturers are pursuing a performance window that most customers will never/rarely encounter, to the detriment of the performance window where the cars will spend far more of their time...

If you are right we should now have a long list of performance cars that can't cope with bumpy/poorly surfaced B roads. I don't know about you, but I am utterly blown away by how insanely fast modern cars are on st roads. Either I am deluded or you are wrong. I drove a Golf R and a Nissan GT-R Nismo last year on some poorly surfaced back roads. Holy crap, ballistic.

[Driver101]

Robert-lhcbq said:

Note the difference between the sport auto lap times and the manufacturer lap times for various cara.

Against its rivals, 8:06 vs...

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/rundenzeiten/su...

A45 AMG with 8:10, face lift with 8.04.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/rundenzeiten/su...

Civic type R and golf R both did 8:15

So all in all, that RS time is pretty rapid.

They also dyno'd the RS after and it was down on power too running just 326PS. See article below;

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/supertest/ford-...

Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Thursday 20th July 12:23

Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Thursday 20th July 12:32

How much are the Cup 2 tyres worth per lap?

[Blaster72]

I spent my 20s driving 80's and 90's hot hatches that would leap several inches sideways if they encountered a sniff of a mid corner bump.

The things modern hot hatches achieve for the price they sell for are fantastic.

Edited by Blaster72 on Thursday 20th July 20:22

[anonymous-user]

Driver101 said:

How much are the Cup 2 tyres worth per lap?

About £25.60

[ChrisBuer]

Yipper sounds like someone else on this forum who told me back in 2011 that I was a fool to buy a BMW 1M and it was a waste of money. Sufficed to say I'm glad I ignored that advice

[RacerMike]

janesmith1950 said:

Driver101 said:

How much are the Cup 2 tyres worth per lap?

About £25.60

I think it might have been cheaper to just glue £20 notes onto my wheels if I’m honest....

[roland82]

A crazy time, I just had a look at F355 times from the 90s to find 8.18 minutes and 8.13 minutes. Hatchbacks have come a long way.

[lee_erm]

Yipper said:

The new FRS remains the most overhyped car of the decade. It looks ugly, the interior is not great, and it is not especially fast on the straights or twisties.

Yeh, it's clearly really is a right dog in the corners isn't it

[rtz62]

I'm intrested to see what car Yipper drives and what his/her experience is of the FRS....
Can't say I've driven ANY of the latest crop of mega hatches, my last interaction of anything that was mega (is n it's own time period) was a TVR Chimera 5.0, a Subaru WR1 or a Sierra RS500. Fairly fast by any standards I'd suggest without getting into supercar territory, but I'm sure the FRS, Mercedes AMG et would wipe the floor with them.
But would I care? No, because I drive in the real world and not at the 'ring, and they are more than enough for the rural Derbyshire roads around me...

[Escort Si-130]

DSGbangs said:

I think that's what Ian was getting at.

Also agree that the ring time obsession needs to stop,first it was bhp, then 0-60 now ring times...

Why did the ring become the holy grail over all these years. Is it down to the German manufacturers starting to use it as a test track. There are so many other tracks out there I think personally are better than the ring.

[Escort Si-130]

The same way your 500bhp daily driver being over-hyped.

Yipper said:

The new FRS remains the most overhyped car of the decade. It looks ugly, the interior is not great, and it is not especially fast on the straights or twisties.

[Ahbefive]

Escort Si-130 said:

There are so many other tracks out there I think personally are better than the ring.

Curious, what tracks do you prefer?