Speed awareness course....interesting but.....

[Pints]

Gary29 said:

I'd just sit there quietly and try to get out of there as quickly as possible.

Lad in my team attended a SAC this week. My only advice to him was to "look contrite".

[silverfoxcc]

shielsy said:

Gary29 said:

I'd just sit there quietly and try to get out of there as quickly as possible.

This will be my tactic.

I'm hoping to be offered a place on the course as I recently got my first speeding ticket after 13 years on the road; 35mph in a 30.

Gents, on the one i went on, you were told

1) too much 'heckling' and your are out with the fine and three points

2) not eoun0gh input....ditto

So bite your tongue, ask the odd intelligent question and it will go quick

AND if you find some statements dubious or downright stupid, write a letter afterwards, the appreciate feedback and will take the necessary action

IE we were told for every SLOW written on the road there has been a fatality, AND there are only 5 compulsory erected road signs, ( i forget which) and every other one has been put there because of an accident... I wanted to ask how can that be on roads that have been newly built and have a myriad of junction/hazard etc sign even before one vehicle has been along it.....FFS keep quite and just point out this bks to the organisers

[King Herald]

silverfoxcc said:

IE we were told for every SLOW written on the road there has been a fatality, AND there are only 5 compulsory erected road signs, ( i forget which) and every other one has been put there because of an accident... I wanted to ask how can that be on roads that have been newly built and have a myriad of junction/hazard etc sign even before one vehicle has been along it.....FFS keep quite and just point out this bks to the organisers

Apparently, the big black and white chevrons put on bends on roads, there is one for every fatality that has occurred on that corner. That is why some bends only have one, or two etc.

Apparently, you can only have a speed camera where there has been a fatality.

Apparently they can only put a speed van where there has been a fatality, or where there has been a lot of campaigning by residents about dangerous speeding.

Speed vans can't just go out and throw up a speed trap at random.

Www.crashmap.co.uk is supposedly the place to get all information about every crash that has happened.

[cuprabob]

King Herald said:

cuprabob said:

Gary29 said:

I'd just sit there quietly and try to get out of there as quickly as possible.

Sounds like a good plan

Nothing worse than having a smart @rse who likes the sound of their own voice making it longer for everyone else.

Not sure if that is in jest, or a predictably new age PH response to my post?

The guy was asking seriously why people break the speed limit, I responsed with what I consider a bloody good reason why. People DO drive faster than they are supposed because they LIKE driving fast.

He refused to acknowledge that, and rejected it as a reason people do it. I'm pretty sure there are a LOT of drivers or riders on PH who like to press on over and above the speed limit whenever they think it is safe to do, and think they won't get caught, and it is not just because they are in a hurry to get where they are going.

The course was to finish in four hours, no longer, he pointed that out at the start, so nothing that was said was going to change that.

It was a generalisation and not targeted at you

Unfortunately, I won't have to worry about a speed awareness course as they don't do them in Scotland.

[SVS]

Gary29 said:

I'd ... try to get out of there as quickly as possible.

See. That's what's wrong with people like you. Trying to get everywhere as quickly as possible.

[Hoofy]

SVS said:

Gary29 said:

I'd ... try to get out of there as quickly as possible.

See. That's what's wrong with people like you. Trying to get everywhere as quickly as possible.

Yeah, try to get out of there while having fun!

[SVS]

Cold said:

... the fact that "thinking time" is much longer than previously thought.

I thought this was based on some research?

Either way, what's wrong with leaving a healthy margin for error in braking distance? Being a few more metres further away from the car in front makes no difference to the journey time.

I've done my share of braking from high speed (track days, race school, superbike school, etc). And I like to have a 2+ second following distance.

[C. Grimsley]

I had to go on one a few years ago, we all had to do a kind of role play and it was cringe. I mean your with say 20 people you didn't know and it was arkward, my course was filled with mainly women surprisingly.

At the end of the day he asked what we would all being doing if not here, we all said at work and I also said don't worry if we didn't speed you wouldn't have a job. Both people who ran the course in my group were retired police officers.

The stare was deadly.

Carl

[Hoofy]

C. Grimsley said:

I had to go on one a few years ago, we all had to do a kind of role play and it was cringe. I mean your with say 20 people you didn't know and it was arkward, my course was filled with mainly women surprisingly.

At the end of the day he asked what we would all being doing if not here, we all said at work and I also said don't worry if we didn't speed you wouldn't have a job. Both people who ran the course in my group were retired police officers.

The stare was deadly.

Carl

[King Herald]

C. Grimsley said:

. Both people who ran the course in my group were retired police officers.

The stare was deadly.

Carl

Of course we had to ask our guys if they had any points on their licenses. The one guy told me he would lose his job if he got three points, and have to pick a new career if he got six.

Not sure exactly what his career was, we never got round to that.

[Fore Left]

King Herald said:

I elected to do the course, I mean, who wouldn't???

My brother. Said he would rather take the points than "give them more money" While not a Gordon, he is a moron

[King Herald]

£100 for the fine, and 3 points, or, £80 for the course.

Yes, indeed, give them no more money.

[vikingaero]

I went on a fantastic speed awareness course.



The female instructor had a fantastic set of norks that I stared at.

[vonhosen]

Cold said:

King Herald said:

dcb said:

It's the promotion of obvious fallacies like this that really get my goat.

The idea that the stopping distances are fixed for decades, however much cars
and driver quality change is simply shoddy Government.

UK Gov should be out there measuring real stopping distances every ten years and setting
new more realistic numbers for new drivers to learn.

The current method of just repeating stale information has nothing to do with a rational measured
evidence based approach.

It is simply pointless arguing though, comparing an 800kg Ford Pop, with drum brakes and crossplies, to a 1200kg 4 wheel disc brakes Golf, with 8" wide modern rubber.........

He also stated that ABS is not a braking aid, but a steering aid, to let drivers steer their way out of trouble in an emergency. They did push that on TV for a while, but the ability to stop without locking up all four on a wet motorway has little to do with steering, so it is a braking aid in my opinion. Not many people try to steer their out of braking trouble, in my limited experience.

Think yourself lucky. Earlier on this week BRAKE were trying to push the notion that stopping distances were out-dated due to the fact that "thinking time" is much longer than previously thought. Fortunately not many news agencies carried the story.

Reaction time is probably longer than in the past, given the amount of people glued to their mobile phone (other media devices) now.

[DoubleD]

vonhosen said:

Reaction time is probably longer than in the past, given the amount of people glued to their mobile phone (other media devices) now.

Or its shorter due to people glued to their mobile phone or other media device playing games that require quick reactions.

[Road2Ruin]

dcb said:

King Herald said:

The guy 'proved' that reaction and stoping distances haven't changed in 60 years. He said they still teach the same statistics now as they did then. Tyres, suspension and brakes may have improved, but cars are approx 80% heavier than they were 60 years ago.

It's the promotion of obvious fallacies like this that really get my goat.

The idea that the stopping distances are fixed for decades, however much cars
and driver quality change is simply shoddy Government.

UK Gov should be out there measuring real stopping distances every ten years and setting
new more realistic numbers for new drivers to learn.

The current method of just repeating stale information has nothing to do with a rational measured
evidence based approach.

Thinking and reaction time hasn't changed and most people drive within the relevant distance for the speed. So the braking distance doesn't make any difference.

[chrisgtx]

vonhosen said:

Cold said:

King Herald said:

dcb said:

It's the promotion of obvious fallacies like this that really get my goat.

The idea that the stopping distances are fixed for decades, however much cars
and driver quality change is simply shoddy Government.

UK Gov should be out there measuring real stopping distances every ten years and setting
new more realistic numbers for new drivers to learn.

The current method of just repeating stale information has nothing to do with a rational measured
evidence based approach.

It is simply pointless arguing though, comparing an 800kg Ford Pop, with drum brakes and crossplies, to a 1200kg 4 wheel disc brakes Golf, with 8" wide modern rubber.........

He also stated that ABS is not a braking aid, but a steering aid, to let drivers steer their way out of trouble in an emergency. They did push that on TV for a while, but the ability to stop without locking up all four on a wet motorway has little to do with steering, so it is a braking aid in my opinion. Not many people try to steer their out of braking trouble, in my limited experience.

Think yourself lucky. Earlier on this week BRAKE were trying to push the notion that stopping distances were out-dated due to the fact that "thinking time" is much longer than previously thought. Fortunately not many news agencies carried the story.

Reaction time is probably longer than in the past, given the amount of people glued to their mobile phone (other media devices) now.

Good god! Brake actually trying to improve road safety instead of blindly following the speed kills route? Wonders will never cease.

[mac96]

Perhaps he wanted you to say 'to get there quicker' because he had a preset answer to that, to show that the extra speed had little affect on journey time.
Whereas 'because it is more fun' is a subjective thing which he cannot dispute.

[V8RX7]

I went on one of the first - when it was a TWO DAY course and included driving.

The guy eventually gave in trying to preach to us and told me he did track days too - in the end we sat around in a cafe talking about cars....

perhaps that's why they reduced it.

[S0updr4g0n]

Road2Ruin said:

dcb said:

King Herald said:

The guy 'proved' that reaction and stoping distances haven't changed in 60 years. He said they still teach the same statistics now as they did then. Tyres, suspension and brakes may have improved, but cars are approx 80% heavier than they were 60 years ago.

It's the promotion of obvious fallacies like this that really get my goat.

The idea that the stopping distances are fixed for decades, however much cars
and driver quality change is simply shoddy Government.

UK Gov should be out there measuring real stopping distances every ten years and setting
new more realistic numbers for new drivers to learn.

The current method of just repeating stale information has nothing to do with a rational measured
evidence based approach.

Thinking and reaction time hasn't changed and most people drive within the relevant distance for the speed. So the braking distance doesn't make any difference.

I like to think of it this way - the ability for a Ford Anglia to stop at a distance vs a Porker with ceramics and wide tyres doing 40 in a 30 is irrelevant when a pedestrian steps out from behind a van which you are 5 feet from clearing the back of. You are going to hit them at +30 regardless. Not everyone steps out in time for you to slam the anchors on.