RE: BMW M5 (E39): PH Heroes
Discussion
I had one for long enough and It was great but you would be off your head to buy one for regular use now.
I got shot of it when it started to become a money pit and I was doing everything to it myself, I just got sick of BMW parts prices.
It was also a rusty bugger, it was a constant battle trying to keep it fresh looking and when it started to get thin on the floors it was time for it to go.
They are a classy car, no doubt, but I wouldn't have another unless it was to be tucked up in a cosy garage most of the time.
I got shot of it when it started to become a money pit and I was doing everything to it myself, I just got sick of BMW parts prices.
It was also a rusty bugger, it was a constant battle trying to keep it fresh looking and when it started to get thin on the floors it was time for it to go.
They are a classy car, no doubt, but I wouldn't have another unless it was to be tucked up in a cosy garage most of the time.
s m said:
Patrick Bateman said:
I'm a fully paid up member of the 'M5 is awesome club' but the S-type R was and is generally well received.
Certainly not regarded as 'rubbish'.
Remember Patrick, on PH, if not German..... rubbish ( unless Audi ). Certainly not regarded as 'rubbish'.
Ritchie335is said:
I had one for long enough and It was great but you would be off your head to buy one for regular use now.
I got shot of it when it started to become a money pit and I was doing everything to it myself, I just got sick of BMW parts prices.
It was also a rusty bugger, it was a constant battle trying to keep it fresh looking and when it started to get thin on the floors it was time for it to go.
They are a classy car, no doubt, but I wouldn't have another unless it was to be tucked up in a cosy garage most of the time.
That is one of my concerns. E34s are already extremely expensive to keep in tip top condition so I can imagine another M5 will bankrupt me! I got shot of it when it started to become a money pit and I was doing everything to it myself, I just got sick of BMW parts prices.
It was also a rusty bugger, it was a constant battle trying to keep it fresh looking and when it started to get thin on the floors it was time for it to go.
They are a classy car, no doubt, but I wouldn't have another unless it was to be tucked up in a cosy garage most of the time.
Patrick Bateman said:
I'm a fully paid up member of the 'M5 is awesome club' but the S-type R was and is generally well received.
Certainly not regarded as 'rubbish'.
Ok "rubbish" is too strong a word, but in objective and subjective terms, history has not judged the StypeR well.......Certainly not regarded as 'rubbish'.
An XJR of the same era is surely a better bet and a nicer all-round proposition than an S-Type though, and similar bills for upkeep.
The E39 M5 is a magnificent thing but they are old and they do cost a lot to keep right up the the mark if you intend to use them much over long periods of time. I wouldn't attempt to run one as a DD kept outdoors nowadays... that's what a 530i is for.
The E39 M5 is a magnificent thing but they are old and they do cost a lot to keep right up the the mark if you intend to use them much over long periods of time. I wouldn't attempt to run one as a DD kept outdoors nowadays... that's what a 530i is for.
Edited by Lowtimer on Sunday 22 October 14:19
I haven't looked at an E39 for a few years now, and even then, the look at the M5 classifieds was in the same way as I looked a colour TV through the Radio Rentals window in the 1970's. My E39 lusting was at a facelift 530i Sport in bright red - still a gorgeous car.
The risk with any E39 M5 is that it's very difficult to find a genuine unspoiled example in non-tatty condition. And if you succeed, you'll pay for it. I have a mental impression of them being more durable than an E60 M5, but that's my impression only.
My current passive search for a petrol-engined F10 will be my first foray into 5 series ownership (lots of 3 series over the years), but it's going to be a long search.
Good article & conversation points on here though.
The risk with any E39 M5 is that it's very difficult to find a genuine unspoiled example in non-tatty condition. And if you succeed, you'll pay for it. I have a mental impression of them being more durable than an E60 M5, but that's my impression only.
My current passive search for a petrol-engined F10 will be my first foray into 5 series ownership (lots of 3 series over the years), but it's going to be a long search.
Good article & conversation points on here though.
Iceicebaby1980 said:
Thought Alpina b10s were going for about 10k with similar miles and full service history ?
Not the B10S, the standard B10 yes but not the S model, they are extremely rare even by Alpina standards, good ones even more so.Edited by Iceicebaby1980 on Sunday 22 October 11:34
njw1 said:
The only car I really regret selling was my e39 M5, I really didn't want to but £2k's worth of bills in a year was too much to justify. I'd love another but I think I've missed the boat now price wise.
£2k is <£170 a month - as they have virtually zero depreciation compare it against a lease deal and it seems fairly cheap you won't even get a golf r for that price, let alone a modern M5 which will set you back between £1k & £2k p/m not p/ain the 6 months that I have owned mine (and £6k miles) it has consumed precisely 2 litres of oil, and I have just put new rubber on - Michelin Pilot Sport 4 at < £600 for four tyres, the last set were put on about 15,000 miles ago... so far one of the cheapest cars I have owned, but like any powerful car of this age, buy the best you can afford, it will cost less in the long run, I wouldn't want to run a low priced one...
as for the negative comments - I like the looks, the subtlety and the fact that others don't know that it is a powerful car (until you overtake them and vanish!). It is a stunningly powerful car - without being silly, and has more than double the power and performance needed in this country... yet it also is equally happy in the city, or gently cruising long distance down the motorways - and then is a lot of fun on the twisty roads the other end, there are not many cars which have the breadth of capability - a 5 seater GT, sportscar!
and good to see the prices climbing
I must be one of those that doesn't think the sun shines out of its exhaust.
But before you spit your coffee out, let me explain.
By the standards of when it was released, yes, sure, it was impressive. But the game has moved on. Considerably.
400bhp is nothing today. You know very well what you can buy, with warranty. And that last bit is important. I love second hand cars just as much as the next person (well, probably a lot more, actually), but accept there are many for whom a warranty matters.
Judging an old car against new is always fraught with the "apples and oranges" issues. But nevertheless it remains that people today buy their cars very much on PCP and similar, so the overall costs are quite different. Where you may pay less for an old car, it will be more inefficient on fuel, and so running costs will be higher unless its a garage queen, etc.
But if *I* were looking for a 400 bhp car with 4 doors and a big boot, this is not where I'd look. Not at all. And if you're honest, I'm sure you can think of many, many examples of where you might find such a car.
To those who hold the car up on a pedestal, I say good luck to you. The big bills for repair will be on their way sooner or later.
But before you spit your coffee out, let me explain.
By the standards of when it was released, yes, sure, it was impressive. But the game has moved on. Considerably.
400bhp is nothing today. You know very well what you can buy, with warranty. And that last bit is important. I love second hand cars just as much as the next person (well, probably a lot more, actually), but accept there are many for whom a warranty matters.
Judging an old car against new is always fraught with the "apples and oranges" issues. But nevertheless it remains that people today buy their cars very much on PCP and similar, so the overall costs are quite different. Where you may pay less for an old car, it will be more inefficient on fuel, and so running costs will be higher unless its a garage queen, etc.
But if *I* were looking for a 400 bhp car with 4 doors and a big boot, this is not where I'd look. Not at all. And if you're honest, I'm sure you can think of many, many examples of where you might find such a car.
To those who hold the car up on a pedestal, I say good luck to you. The big bills for repair will be on their way sooner or later.
My E39 is the best all round car I've ever had, which is why I've had it for over 9 years.
My summary is that it's not exceptional at any one thing, but it's very very good at almost everything. I've driven my mum and her nervy sister 250 miles in it without a problem. I've taken my son to university in it with all his crap in the boot and 2 other passengers, no problem. I've used it as a daily driver for 5 years, no problem. I've done a couple of track days in it, it's never going to set a lap record, but it's huge fun. Driving it always brings a smile to my face, it's just so complete and fuss free. It is still fast, by modern standards for 'regular' cars, but there are many more faster top of the range cars now. My M6 GC will obliterate it and is for the most part a much easier car to drive, but for a car to really 'drive' the M5 is a much more involving experience.
Of course they are not cheap to maintain, it was £55k list price for base spec car when new, more like £60k by the time you fitted any options, it has the maintenance costs of a £60k car.
IMO their biggest problem is their propensity to rust, to get to the bottom of it you need to take preventative measures before it gets a hold. And it gets a hold in places you can't see unless you really know where to look.
My summary is that it's not exceptional at any one thing, but it's very very good at almost everything. I've driven my mum and her nervy sister 250 miles in it without a problem. I've taken my son to university in it with all his crap in the boot and 2 other passengers, no problem. I've used it as a daily driver for 5 years, no problem. I've done a couple of track days in it, it's never going to set a lap record, but it's huge fun. Driving it always brings a smile to my face, it's just so complete and fuss free. It is still fast, by modern standards for 'regular' cars, but there are many more faster top of the range cars now. My M6 GC will obliterate it and is for the most part a much easier car to drive, but for a car to really 'drive' the M5 is a much more involving experience.
Of course they are not cheap to maintain, it was £55k list price for base spec car when new, more like £60k by the time you fitted any options, it has the maintenance costs of a £60k car.
IMO their biggest problem is their propensity to rust, to get to the bottom of it you need to take preventative measures before it gets a hold. And it gets a hold in places you can't see unless you really know where to look.
I do like the E39 M5 and all the people saying it will cost a fortune to run miss the point that a) it will more than likely be an occasional use car and b) if you look after it will more than likely be more valuable when you come to sell it. Work out how much you pay on a lease for anything comparable new and see what that works out at over 3 years.
I think the past it's best, over the hill criticisms can be used on any old classic really but that misses the point. Many of the Golf R type modern cars rely on their super quick gearboxes to return the super quick acceleration times but once on a roll from 20-30 mph you would need a very quick car to substantially drop an M5 it's only physics, simple power to weight and generally cars have put on a substantial amount of bulk since the late 1990s. A Golf R is heavier than an R32 GTR for instance.
Younger drivers in a lot of cases have never driven good older cars, they don't appreciate the mechanical, organic feel of older cars, whereas older drivers like myself don't seem to like the artificial, synthesised feel of most new cars. Personally I just enjoy driving older cars more than new for many reasons, I like the interface with the controls more , steering is massively better to use, hate the steering of pretty much every new car I've tried in recent years, with the exception of built in sat nav/phone and audio all the other pointless crap like automatic lights and wipers, auto park, lane assist just to name a few. Most new cars feel pretty similar (within a class obviously) whereas 20 years ago they felt very different meaning cars had more individual character. I prefer the cabins in older cars - electronic instrument clusters and alike are going to be ruinously expensive. The engines sound nicer and generally have more cylinders - no 6 cylinder Boxster now for instance. I think older cars are easier to maintain as less complicated, electronics are a major issue on most reliability surveys now - hence Dacia are now top - there's nothing to go wrong. Yes new cars are quieter , more fuel efficient, easier to driver but for me a modified classic is where it's at.
I think the past it's best, over the hill criticisms can be used on any old classic really but that misses the point. Many of the Golf R type modern cars rely on their super quick gearboxes to return the super quick acceleration times but once on a roll from 20-30 mph you would need a very quick car to substantially drop an M5 it's only physics, simple power to weight and generally cars have put on a substantial amount of bulk since the late 1990s. A Golf R is heavier than an R32 GTR for instance.
Younger drivers in a lot of cases have never driven good older cars, they don't appreciate the mechanical, organic feel of older cars, whereas older drivers like myself don't seem to like the artificial, synthesised feel of most new cars. Personally I just enjoy driving older cars more than new for many reasons, I like the interface with the controls more , steering is massively better to use, hate the steering of pretty much every new car I've tried in recent years, with the exception of built in sat nav/phone and audio all the other pointless crap like automatic lights and wipers, auto park, lane assist just to name a few. Most new cars feel pretty similar (within a class obviously) whereas 20 years ago they felt very different meaning cars had more individual character. I prefer the cabins in older cars - electronic instrument clusters and alike are going to be ruinously expensive. The engines sound nicer and generally have more cylinders - no 6 cylinder Boxster now for instance. I think older cars are easier to maintain as less complicated, electronics are a major issue on most reliability surveys now - hence Dacia are now top - there's nothing to go wrong. Yes new cars are quieter , more fuel efficient, easier to driver but for me a modified classic is where it's at.
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