Do I really need more than 300 BHP?
Discussion
Agree with this thread.
Recently had a 2011 Audi TTRS, DSG & APR stage 1 - around 420bhp. It was mental fast everywhere. The problem was it was so fast all the time I couldn't actually run it through gears without doing silly speeds.
I sold it, saved 15k and bought a 350z - not the fastest car alive but it is good fun to drive and feels a bit more alive than the TT did, particularly if I push it hard. I can actually run this through a few gears as well as its so much slower.
Recently had a 2011 Audi TTRS, DSG & APR stage 1 - around 420bhp. It was mental fast everywhere. The problem was it was so fast all the time I couldn't actually run it through gears without doing silly speeds.
I sold it, saved 15k and bought a 350z - not the fastest car alive but it is good fun to drive and feels a bit more alive than the TT did, particularly if I push it hard. I can actually run this through a few gears as well as its so much slower.
My daily has around 150 BHP and the golf before it around 180, both are more than adequate for my commute to work and have enough power to make a drive on some open roads fun, even if that fun isn't derived from acceleration
the Maserati has around 400 BHP which could be argued is too much but being as it has short gearing and feels special (to me anyway) at any speed it's still fun, though I definitely don't need anything with even more power
however I can't deny there is something weirdly exciting about accelerating hard in a car with a lot of power (500+ bhp), yeah it's only for a short time but being pinned to your seat is amusing
one of the most fun cars I've driven was a mk1 MX5, for some reason I still don't want one though
the Maserati has around 400 BHP which could be argued is too much but being as it has short gearing and feels special (to me anyway) at any speed it's still fun, though I definitely don't need anything with even more power
however I can't deny there is something weirdly exciting about accelerating hard in a car with a lot of power (500+ bhp), yeah it's only for a short time but being pinned to your seat is amusing
one of the most fun cars I've driven was a mk1 MX5, for some reason I still don't want one though
I don't think you do need more than 300BHP OP
Recently drove a brand new m140i, its quite a bit of kit with monstrous performance, I think it has at least enough if not too much power for the road, especially with no LSD.
I have a MK7 GTD which is remapped and the BMW is completely a league above performance wise and If I was to come across an Audi S3 or Merc A45 to separate the difference in performance between those cars would definitely put me in prison or kill me.
Recently drove a brand new m140i, its quite a bit of kit with monstrous performance, I think it has at least enough if not too much power for the road, especially with no LSD.
I have a MK7 GTD which is remapped and the BMW is completely a league above performance wise and If I was to come across an Audi S3 or Merc A45 to separate the difference in performance between those cars would definitely put me in prison or kill me.
thrashermax said:
Is less more? Have we been chasing numbers too much?
My next car will probably be a Fiesta ST or Audi S1... Both around 180-200bhp, small and should give me all that I need.
I was always in the more power the better camp...until I had my E92 M3 and used it as a daily, so I completely see where you're coming from. My next car will probably be a Fiesta ST or Audi S1... Both around 180-200bhp, small and should give me all that I need.
I found the M3 massively frustrating because you just couldn't exploit it's potential because of its power delivery/cameras/traffic volume, and when you weren't on it...it was just a heavy and very thirsty BMW.
I decided I needed something lighter and more fun for more of the time, funnily enough the S1 was on my list...and I've now got a 190bhp F56 Mini Cooper S. It's quick enough and you can use all of its performance for most of the time, and it's the most fun car I've had since my TVR.
I will always love and appreciate straight line speed and would love a R35 GTR for exactly that reason, but I do now enjoy exploiting a slower car and getting the most from it for sure...and I never thought I would ever say that.
thrashermax said:
I'm even considering a Fiat 100hp for cheap fun... That would be funny, replacing my 4.0 V8 for a 1.4 4 cylinder tinny box.
Have a look at the Renault Twingo 133 in that case, they are brilliant little cars, light and agile, they aren't all that powerful as the name suggests but that's not a barrier to fun! thrashermax said:
Nanook said:
... S1, which were thinking about, is 230bhp, but 4WD and fairly inert, will be quick but I'm not sure how much fun. Think we've got one for a weekend at the end of the month so I'll find out.
Let us know ??I've now got the same engine in something altogether less conspicouos.
My last fairly quick daily car was a re-mapped Megane 225 so that was around 260bhp. I found that to be a very usable amount of power. Quicker than most normal cars and a lot of fun. I'd say for normal driving that kind of power/weight combo worked nicely for me. You could have fun in it, without driving like a moron.
I ended up buying a CLS63 afterwards which has just over 500bhp and although a bigger car, it's significantly quicker. The thing is, to feel like you're pushing the car you have to be going a lot quicker. At 70mph it feels unphased and knowing that the car can potentially do another 100mph+ de-restricted means that extra power is largely unused. It's a weekend car though so not something I'm used to so for pleasure it is good fun. Necessary? Absolutely not but I suppose for me the entire car isn't necessary.
So no, more than 300bhp is not necessary if I'm honest, look how quick lighter cars are with that amount of power as using more than that on a daily basis is unlikely. It is quite good fun though.
I ended up buying a CLS63 afterwards which has just over 500bhp and although a bigger car, it's significantly quicker. The thing is, to feel like you're pushing the car you have to be going a lot quicker. At 70mph it feels unphased and knowing that the car can potentially do another 100mph+ de-restricted means that extra power is largely unused. It's a weekend car though so not something I'm used to so for pleasure it is good fun. Necessary? Absolutely not but I suppose for me the entire car isn't necessary.
So no, more than 300bhp is not necessary if I'm honest, look how quick lighter cars are with that amount of power as using more than that on a daily basis is unlikely. It is quite good fun though.
The more the merrier IMO. Yes, I do enjoy thrashing the hell out of the wife's 150BHP Adam S, but as a daily driver, my 800+BHP VXR8 is perfect for me. An insane amount of low end torque makes cruising a delight, yet the ability for insane acceleration that makes you grin and gives you a massive adrenaline shot wins it for me.
I think power to weight needs to be taken into consideration. I've just taken an MX5 mk2 1.8 and put it in a Westfield that weighs just over 600kg. It's a hell of a lot quicker!
My brother lives in the sticks and has a few mildly powerful cars, but always chose his daughters MK1 Ka for popping out for short journeys as he says he can throw it around at lower speeds and have more fun driving it!
My brother lives in the sticks and has a few mildly powerful cars, but always chose his daughters MK1 Ka for popping out for short journeys as he says he can throw it around at lower speeds and have more fun driving it!
I do agree to a degree, I've had a couple of cars that you are very quickly into licence loosing speeds and without expolitin gon track, just cant get close to it day to day. That said its nice to have now and then, but definitely not needed.
My 7 has 155ish bhp and it makes for the perfect B-road car in my opinion, enough go but not enough whereby I cant rev it out and enjoy it at sensible speeds.
My 7 has 155ish bhp and it makes for the perfect B-road car in my opinion, enough go but not enough whereby I cant rev it out and enjoy it at sensible speeds.
I might be looking through a rose tinted time machine, but some of the best/most enjoyable cars I have ever owned were what I would consider great chassis, with underpowered engines.
I have owned cars with more than 400ibs of torque in a road car, but get every bit of usable power without fighting every camber change and corner, you have to compromise on ride quality.
300bhp is a nice round number for a road car.
Now... Can we hear more about these Escorts, that filled the garage???
I have owned cars with more than 400ibs of torque in a road car, but get every bit of usable power without fighting every camber change and corner, you have to compromise on ride quality.
300bhp is a nice round number for a road car.
Now... Can we hear more about these Escorts, that filled the garage???
I had a similar view on bikes.
When the race rep stuff went to 180hp+ with selectable mapping etc so it doesn't kill you in the wet it all got a bit much.
I have much more fun on a lower powered bike with a bit of torque and er challenging handling (yes a Harley, don't judge) and I don't feel like i'm the weakest link.
Just as important in cars imho. We are not all driving gods and too much power isn't great on the crap they call uk roads.
Our daily is an Audi TT Quattro, 230hp 4wd, quick but not rapid. Not the most involving drive but unlikely to bite back either.
When the race rep stuff went to 180hp+ with selectable mapping etc so it doesn't kill you in the wet it all got a bit much.
I have much more fun on a lower powered bike with a bit of torque and er challenging handling (yes a Harley, don't judge) and I don't feel like i'm the weakest link.
Just as important in cars imho. We are not all driving gods and too much power isn't great on the crap they call uk roads.
Our daily is an Audi TT Quattro, 230hp 4wd, quick but not rapid. Not the most involving drive but unlikely to bite back either.
I might be looking through a rose tinted time machine, but some of the best/most enjoyable cars I have ever owned were what I would consider great chassis, with underpowered engines.
I have owned cars with more than 400ibs of torque in a road car, but get every bit of usable power without fighting every camber change and corner, you have to compromise on ride quality.
300bhp is a nice round number for a road car.
Now... Can we hear more about these Escorts, that filled the garage???
I have owned cars with more than 400ibs of torque in a road car, but get every bit of usable power without fighting every camber change and corner, you have to compromise on ride quality.
300bhp is a nice round number for a road car.
Now... Can we hear more about these Escorts, that filled the garage???
nickfrog said:
Yipper said:
You can never have enough power.
Nowadays, you need at least 500bhp, ideally 600-800bhp, to make use of all situations on the roads and to stay one step ahead.
WTF are you on about ? That is idiotic, even by your standards.Nowadays, you need at least 500bhp, ideally 600-800bhp, to make use of all situations on the roads and to stay one step ahead.
ianboom said:
I think power to weight needs to be taken into consideration. I've just taken an MX5 mk2 1.8 and put it in a Westfield that weighs just over 600kg. It's a hell of a lot quicker!
My brother lives in the sticks and has a few mildly powerful cars, but always chose his daughters MK1 Ka for popping out for short journeys as he says he can throw it around at lower speeds and have more fun driving it!
Boom is right - power to weight is very important as it generates the 'sensation of speed' within the car that is actually the key determinant in my humble opinion. I'd recommend a Fiesta ST to anyone, particularly as you can now pick up decent used examples for well under £10k. My brother lives in the sticks and has a few mildly powerful cars, but always chose his daughters MK1 Ka for popping out for short journeys as he says he can throw it around at lower speeds and have more fun driving it!
Plus as you start getting up in to serious BHP territory you run the risk of ending up with a car that's essentially overloaded beyond its realistic capacity and at risk of going pop at any given time - as has been seen recently with some of the high BHP cars that get rave reviews when first released and then after 8,000 miles it's a very different story. I've seen grown men nearly weeping.
My sweet spot seems to be around ~350BHP. The Z4M, Supra, 645, SL500, 911 C4S and N400 (400BHP) were all around this mark and were more than enough to enjoy on the road.
Yes you get used to them over time but any more i think would be to the detriment of enjoyment. The Elise still remains my favourite car for fun and yet remains the only car i haven't taken over 100 leptons......
Yes you get used to them over time but any more i think would be to the detriment of enjoyment. The Elise still remains my favourite car for fun and yet remains the only car i haven't taken over 100 leptons......
I like the "hurrrrrrr..." factor of driving something a bit more powerful, but I really don't need it at all, and I find small, light, lower powered cars are the best way to have a bit of fun.
I've found I've stopped caring so much about how fast a car is, and work on the principle that you can drive almost anything fast enough, so concentrate on enjoyment.
I've found I've stopped caring so much about how fast a car is, and work on the principle that you can drive almost anything fast enough, so concentrate on enjoyment.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff