RE: McLaren and Aston announce record sales
Discussion
Living in the bubble of a wealthy part of Surrey I see a few AM around and much, much more rarely McLaren. I guess that many of the McLaren are I garages most of the time.
Plus most McLaren are exported (maybe a quarter of sales in UK?) Although many of the AM are older.
I am considering a McLaren this year (650S or 570S) so I might not have to look too far for one!
Plus most McLaren are exported (maybe a quarter of sales in UK?) Although many of the AM are older.
I am considering a McLaren this year (650S or 570S) so I might not have to look too far for one!
ChilliWhizz said:
Up until 2014 when I went in to semi retirement mode (only working 4 months a year or thereabouts) I was (according to what I read on the web so must be true) in the top 1% income bracket. I consider myself working class, and still do, I come from a ‘working class’ family, all fine people, and despite growing up next to a council estate and going to a secondary school, I was blessed with exceptional good looks, near genius IQ, and was a natural driving God... pretty much from birth....
I wouldn’t mind being ‘middle class’ but it really is a bit pretentious. If it wasn’t for my cockney accent (despite growing up in Sarf Lunden) I could comfortably pass myself off as upper class. Whatever that is.
Some of the above may be true
You’re confusing yourself with James Bond again Chilli. I wouldn’t mind being ‘middle class’ but it really is a bit pretentious. If it wasn’t for my cockney accent (despite growing up in Sarf Lunden) I could comfortably pass myself off as upper class. Whatever that is.
Some of the above may be true
Technically the term ‘middle class’ as with all the traditional ‘classes’ is pretty kaput/changed today in contrast to 30 years ago thanks to social mobility, financial deregulation and probably mostly the rise of new technology enterprises.
So whereas in the past it very much related to how someone spoke, behaved and the depth of their family history as well as involving the financial element in the context above I was using the term in relation to income bands more than anything. Technically ‘middle class’ probably isn’t the correct term but older people such as ourselves are so used to the three stereotype bands we tend to still use the terms.
Whatever we call this new middle band their numbers globally have risen stratospherically.
Lots of sense being talked about on this thread, have I stumbled on a time machine and actually back on the old PH!
Totally agree, the world is a different place to how it was in the late 80s/early 90s but money still makes the world go around and people can only keep taking that virtually free credit allowance up to a certain limit before they then have to actually start returning it.
Mortgages are so cheap at the moment, but again a 1% rise in interest rates will effectively double the repayments of most people, and very few will have factored such into their current outgoings. We don't need the double digit rates of old to flatten the economies.
The only potential bail out I can maybe foresee for quite a few of the working class is the amount of inherited money that will wash back into the economy as the now retired and asset rich babyboomers eventually start croaking and passing it down the line, which will bail out to some degree their kids who are up to their necks in debt in order to keep that new Audi on the drive on their 4 bed Redrow estate.
My dad never had a new car, we lived in a 3 bed semi, had one holiday a year usually in the UK and he worked 6 days a week, only borrowing was the mortgage. Since he retired he has more trips away than Alan Wicker, nice new motor every year, lives in a big new house and is frittering away my inheritance like crazy! I don't see my generation having that ability when we retire.
I do not see a sharp correction initially, that would have already happened with Trump getting in/Brexit etc and it did not occur, but I can see that once the rot creeps in, that the debt snowball will slowly grow and grow until it falls off the cliff and that is when the s
t could hit the fan.
Totally agree, the world is a different place to how it was in the late 80s/early 90s but money still makes the world go around and people can only keep taking that virtually free credit allowance up to a certain limit before they then have to actually start returning it.
Mortgages are so cheap at the moment, but again a 1% rise in interest rates will effectively double the repayments of most people, and very few will have factored such into their current outgoings. We don't need the double digit rates of old to flatten the economies.
The only potential bail out I can maybe foresee for quite a few of the working class is the amount of inherited money that will wash back into the economy as the now retired and asset rich babyboomers eventually start croaking and passing it down the line, which will bail out to some degree their kids who are up to their necks in debt in order to keep that new Audi on the drive on their 4 bed Redrow estate.
My dad never had a new car, we lived in a 3 bed semi, had one holiday a year usually in the UK and he worked 6 days a week, only borrowing was the mortgage. Since he retired he has more trips away than Alan Wicker, nice new motor every year, lives in a big new house and is frittering away my inheritance like crazy! I don't see my generation having that ability when we retire.
I do not see a sharp correction initially, that would have already happened with Trump getting in/Brexit etc and it did not occur, but I can see that once the rot creeps in, that the debt snowball will slowly grow and grow until it falls off the cliff and that is when the s
t could hit the fan.PAUL500 said:
Lots of sense being talked about on this thread, have I stumbled on a time machine and actually back on the old PH!
Totally agree, the world is a different place to how it was in the late 80s/early 90s but money still makes the world go around and people can only keep taking that virtually free credit allowance up to a certain limit before they then have to actually start returning it.
Mortgages are so cheap at the moment, but again a 1% rise in interest rates will effectively double the repayments of most people, and very few will have factored such into their current outgoings. We don't need the double digit rates of old to flatten the economies.
The only potential bail out I can maybe foresee for quite a few of the working class is the amount of inherited money that will wash back into the economy as the now retired and asset rich babyboomers eventually start croaking and passing it down the line, which will bail out to some degree their kids who are up to their necks in debt in order to keep that new Audi on the drive on their 4 bed Redrow estate.
My dad never had a new car, we lived in a 3 bed semi, had one holiday a year usually in the UK and he worked 6 days a week, only borrowing was the mortgage. Since he retired he has more trips away than Alan Wicker, nice new motor every year, lives in a big new house and is frittering away my inheritance like crazy! I don't see my generation having that ability when we retire.
I do not see a sharp correction initially, that would have already happened with Trump getting in/Brexit etc and it did not occur, but I can see that once the rot creeps in, that the debt snowball will slowly grow and grow until it falls off the cliff and that is when the st could hit the fan.
My Mortgage is 1.99% and £700 a month. My latest statement says that if it goes to 10.99 % it will only rise to £913.39. So a rise from 1.99% to 3.99% (Double) will not double the repayments. Back to maths school for you ugly.Totally agree, the world is a different place to how it was in the late 80s/early 90s but money still makes the world go around and people can only keep taking that virtually free credit allowance up to a certain limit before they then have to actually start returning it.
Mortgages are so cheap at the moment, but again a 1% rise in interest rates will effectively double the repayments of most people, and very few will have factored such into their current outgoings. We don't need the double digit rates of old to flatten the economies.
The only potential bail out I can maybe foresee for quite a few of the working class is the amount of inherited money that will wash back into the economy as the now retired and asset rich babyboomers eventually start croaking and passing it down the line, which will bail out to some degree their kids who are up to their necks in debt in order to keep that new Audi on the drive on their 4 bed Redrow estate.
My dad never had a new car, we lived in a 3 bed semi, had one holiday a year usually in the UK and he worked 6 days a week, only borrowing was the mortgage. Since he retired he has more trips away than Alan Wicker, nice new motor every year, lives in a big new house and is frittering away my inheritance like crazy! I don't see my generation having that ability when we retire.
I do not see a sharp correction initially, that would have already happened with Trump getting in/Brexit etc and it did not occur, but I can see that once the rot creeps in, that the debt snowball will slowly grow and grow until it falls off the cliff and that is when the s
t could hit the fan.PAUL500 said:
but again a 1% rise in interest rates will effectively double the repayments of most people
1% increase would do nothing, 1pp increase would cause issues for some as you mention.VanquishRider said:
My Mortgage is 1.99% and £700 a month. My latest statement says that if it goes to 10.99 % it will only rise to £913.39. So a rise from 1.99% to 3.99% (Double) will not double the repayments. Back to maths school for you ugly.
Obviously it all depends on individual circumstances and parameters, which you've failed to mention.Strong performance indeed although what goes up must come down. Sorry to bring in some negativity but it says 15 new products in McLaren range. Is there really a market for all them outside of the car credit frenzy of young people not investing their money but simply consuming ?!
The reason everyone is consuming at the top end of supercar said is the perceived low depreciation on some of the cars i.e. 991gt3. But remove the support for these vehicles 2nd hand and I think we will see a normal market resume more like 2001. The second hand market plays an important part to prop up residuals but as we know the majority of the population want 4 door 4 seats practicality so there is a lint to how many people will be around to Hoover up £100/200k 2nd hand cars.
Record sales at Ferrari I think back in 1990 and then they plunged and Aston were nearly wiped out.
This time round we had lots of Chinese and Indians to keep demand up - let's hope so !
The reason everyone is consuming at the top end of supercar said is the perceived low depreciation on some of the cars i.e. 991gt3. But remove the support for these vehicles 2nd hand and I think we will see a normal market resume more like 2001. The second hand market plays an important part to prop up residuals but as we know the majority of the population want 4 door 4 seats practicality so there is a lint to how many people will be around to Hoover up £100/200k 2nd hand cars.
Record sales at Ferrari I think back in 1990 and then they plunged and Aston were nearly wiped out.
This time round we had lots of Chinese and Indians to keep demand up - let's hope so !
I think the real reason you see so few Astons and McLarens around is revealed in the SMMT UK registration totals for 2017 - interesting link attached: https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...
If I understand these correctly (ie January to December full year on year) McLaren UK registered 567 out of the 3340 and Aston 1471 out of the 5117.
Export markets clearly absolutely fundamental to this success story.
If I understand these correctly (ie January to December full year on year) McLaren UK registered 567 out of the 3340 and Aston 1471 out of the 5117.
Export markets clearly absolutely fundamental to this success story.
Tim16V said:
I think the real reason you see so few Astons and McLarens around is revealed in the SMMT UK registration totals for 2017 - interesting link attached: https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...
If I understand these correctly (ie January to December full year on year) McLaren UK registered 567 out of the 3340 and Aston 1471 out of the 5117.
Export markets clearly absolutely fundamental to this success story.
Maserati did more than that!If I understand these correctly (ie January to December full year on year) McLaren UK registered 567 out of the 3340 and Aston 1471 out of the 5117.
Export markets clearly absolutely fundamental to this success story.
I wonder how many of the Porshce sales were GT2/3 cars as opposed to Cayennes and Macans
No figures for Ferrari or Lamborghini which are probably closer competitors.
MG? When was he last time you saw a new (Chinese) MG on the road?
Ive seen 1!Yipper is right though. McLaren had a terrible time in '16!
They only registered 18 cars in the UK in 2016?!?!?!
8V085 said:
PAUL500 said:
but again a 1% rise in interest rates will effectively double the repayments of most people
1% increase would do nothing, 1pp increase would cause issues for some as you mention.VanquishRider said:
My Mortgage is 1.99% and £700 a month. My latest statement says that if it goes to 10.99 % it will only rise to £913.39. So a rise from 1.99% to 3.99% (Double) will not double the repayments. Back to maths school for you ugly.
Obviously it all depends on individual circumstances and parameters, which you've failed to mention.f1ten said:
Strong performance indeed although what goes up must come down. Sorry to bring in some negativity but it says 15 new products in McLaren range. Is there really a market for all them outside of the car credit frenzy of young people not investing their money but simply consuming ?!
The reason everyone is consuming at the top end of supercar said is the perceived low depreciation on some of the cars i.e. 991gt3. But remove the support for these vehicles 2nd hand and I think we will see a normal market resume more like 2001. The second hand market plays an important part to prop up residuals but as we know the majority of the population want 4 door 4 seats practicality so there is a lint to how many people will be around to Hoover up £100/200k 2nd hand cars.
Record sales at Ferrari I think back in 1990 and then they plunged and Aston were nearly wiped out.
This time round we had lots of Chinese and Indians to keep demand up - let's hope so !
I think the market izs geared towards many diferent variations on a theme. Most manufactureres are at it: BMW, as an example has the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. I3, i8. Gran sport and GT versions of some of those, with others planned. X1,x2,x3,x5,x6. All avilable with bmw "individual", to make them unique if required. I may have forgotten some, but thats a lot of variations.The reason everyone is consuming at the top end of supercar said is the perceived low depreciation on some of the cars i.e. 991gt3. But remove the support for these vehicles 2nd hand and I think we will see a normal market resume more like 2001. The second hand market plays an important part to prop up residuals but as we know the majority of the population want 4 door 4 seats practicality so there is a lint to how many people will be around to Hoover up £100/200k 2nd hand cars.
Record sales at Ferrari I think back in 1990 and then they plunged and Aston were nearly wiped out.
This time round we had lots of Chinese and Indians to keep demand up - let's hope so !
Pagani produced a bewildering number of variants on the basis Zonda theme is another, extreme example
Remember that Mclaren factory has a maximum capacity of circa 4000 pa, so they are nearly there already and will need a new factory to grow much more (or borrow capacity at another factory, like Aston did with the Rapide in Austria) So their business plan might be to produce many variations on a theme, even if they actually build very few individual models.
That we might see a Mclaren SUV made alongside the Aston SUV in St. Athan is pure speculation on my part...
ChasW said:
204 vacancies on the McLaren website. Hiring like mad it seems.
There are times when viewing McLaren that I'm reminded of the quote by Julian Richer (of the eponymous "Sounds" ) "What goes up fast tends to come down fast"
Don't get me wrong, they aren't Tesla, who WILL eventually fail and leave an enormous debt (and thousands of redundancies!) in the process. They are producing products that sell (and then 2 or 3 more variants to capitalise
) So there's no doubt they are completely viable.But rapid expansion always concerns... I hope I'm worrying about nothing
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