RE: Porsche 718 Boxster Spyder breaks cover
Discussion
Porsche911R said:
"it was absolutely the best version Porsche ever made. Hands down, no argument. "
what
the old one was far better to drive and saved 80kg over this 20kg effort along with even longer gearing and EPS how can a review say it's the best one lol.
It's basically a GTS with a 3.8, that's about it. also nothing like a GT4 bar the same engine, the whole platform in the GT4 was 1/2 GT3 and 1/2 new !! with 245/295 CUP 2's
Yawn, the first boxster Spyder's like the one YOU own lacked the bigger engine hence is down on performance compared to the 3.8. No doubt YOUR 3.4 987 is a great car but lacks the 3.8 engine.what
the old one was far better to drive and saved 80kg over this 20kg effort along with even longer gearing and EPS how can a review say it's the best one lol.
It's basically a GTS with a 3.8, that's about it. also nothing like a GT4 bar the same engine, the whole platform in the GT4 was 1/2 GT3 and 1/2 new !! with 245/295 CUP 2's
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 1st February 13:39
Trade yours in, get £40 grand finance to make the £80 grand needed for a 981 Spyder that you obviously lust after otherwise we wouldn't keep hearing the schoolboy jealously comments from you all the time.
Raygun said:
Porsche911R said:
"it was absolutely the best version Porsche ever made. Hands down, no argument. "
what
the old one was far better to drive and saved 80kg over this 20kg effort along with even longer gearing and EPS how can a review say it's the best one lol.
It's basically a GTS with a 3.8, that's about it. also nothing like a GT4 bar the same engine, the whole platform in the GT4 was 1/2 GT3 and 1/2 new !! with 245/295 CUP 2's
Yawn, the first boxster Spyder's like the one YOU own lacked the bigger engine hence is down on performance compared to the 3.8. No doubt YOUR 3.4 987 is a great car but lacks the 3.8 engine.what
the old one was far better to drive and saved 80kg over this 20kg effort along with even longer gearing and EPS how can a review say it's the best one lol.
It's basically a GTS with a 3.8, that's about it. also nothing like a GT4 bar the same engine, the whole platform in the GT4 was 1/2 GT3 and 1/2 new !! with 245/295 CUP 2's
Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 1st February 13:39
Trade yours in, get £40 grand finance to make the £80 grand needed for a 981 Spyder that you obviously lust after otherwise we wouldn't keep hearing the schoolboy jealously comments from you all the time.
Raygun said:
Yawn, the first boxster Spyder's like the one YOU own lacked the bigger engine hence is down on performance compared to the 3.8. No doubt YOUR 3.4 987 is a great car but lacks the 3.8 engine.
Trade yours in, get £40 grand finance to make the £80 grand needed for a 981 Spyder that you obviously lust after otherwise we wouldn't keep hearing the schoolboy jealously comments from you all the time.
you just have no clue at all lol, never mind, it does make you look a fool but that's forums for you I guess.Trade yours in, get £40 grand finance to make the £80 grand needed for a 981 Spyder that you obviously lust after otherwise we wouldn't keep hearing the schoolboy jealously comments from you all the time.
boxsey said:
Raygun said:
Porsche911R said:
"it was absolutely the best version Porsche ever made. Hands down, no argument. "
what
the old one was far better to drive and saved 80kg over this 20kg effort along with even longer gearing and EPS how can a review say it's the best one lol.
It's basically a GTS with a 3.8, that's about it. also nothing like a GT4 bar the same engine, the whole platform in the GT4 was 1/2 GT3 and 1/2 new !! with 245/295 CUP 2's
Yawn, the first boxster Spyder's like the one YOU own lacked the bigger engine hence is down on performance compared to the 3.8. No doubt YOUR 3.4 987 is a great car but lacks the 3.8 engine.what
the old one was far better to drive and saved 80kg over this 20kg effort along with even longer gearing and EPS how can a review say it's the best one lol.
It's basically a GTS with a 3.8, that's about it. also nothing like a GT4 bar the same engine, the whole platform in the GT4 was 1/2 GT3 and 1/2 new !! with 245/295 CUP 2's
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 1st February 13:39
Trade yours in, get £40 grand finance to make the £80 grand needed for a 981 Spyder that you obviously lust after otherwise we wouldn't keep hearing the schoolboy jealously comments from you all the time.
Perhaps he missed the 1/18 bit off when he said he'd bought one.
hondansx said:
No way will the Cayman or Boxster get a GT3 engine.
Except that's exactly what the consensus seems to be. Detuned GT3-based engine. Note the word 'based' - so I expect a lot of the more expensive elements to be excluded, but the engine looks almost certain to be able to trace back to the same as in the current GT3.ReverendCounter said:
Ares said:
Perhaps those quick to criticise, should proffer articles for publication?
Well, that is certainly one approach - but I can't see myself offering amateur dentistry after seeing people leave a surgery in pain, for instance. Becoming a brickie after paying out for dodgy work; trying to persuade others to invest their cash after receiving poor advice from a financial advisor - where do you stop?Personally I think it's OK to call out bad work without there being an expectation to produce better but regardless, I can see we have differences re: writing styles and PH content etc, and I'm happy to agree to disagree.
Agdavie said:
The dealers don't lie to when they say to you that you were close to getting a car because that is the truth. Where it becomes more interesting is that you had a car till "some" guy walked into the dealership, had a word in the managers ear and said "ill give you 5k cash under the table if i get a car", guess what happens next? You get bumped from a list and the guy who offered the manager 5k (under the table) gets a car he will keep for 3 possibly 6 months then sell for a large profit.
It was the same with GT3's, GT4's, Spiders & RS's, its the same with Lamborghini's and its the same as most manufacturers and these limited edition cars that the enthusiasts/collectors miss out on.
I was told i couldn't get a certain Lamborghini for "someone" even though i had got the letter of intent through plus a deposit down in plenty of time. Lamborghini told me that we wouldn't get a car so I decided as its so common and the person who wanted this car would do anything to have one it would be worth seeing if i could do anything to change this. Funnily enough after meeting with the person in charge and an under the table offer was made i got one.
If the Manufacturers knew how rife this was in the trade and actually acted on it then these cars would be available but its now down to who has the deepest pockets rather than, who, in theory is the better customer. After the pockets have been lined accordingly the rest of the cars goes to the VIP customers who the Manufacturers want in there cars then if there are any left, they go down the list of everyone else.
In fact the only large manufacturer who probably has a grip on this is Ferrari as they have very strict rules they if you break them or the dealer does on your behalf then you'll be black listed from getting a new one for a period of time decided by Ferrari themselves.
As for the new Spyder it will be cracking car just like the 2 before it and if it does end up with the 4.0l from the GT3 then great stuff. The downside comes from the price that they will be when the allocation is gone and the "Flippers" start putting them on the market for a 20% premium.
Also the GT4 was probably the best car Porsche had made for a very long time. The GT3 was fast and very capable but being only PDK at the time it wasn't a purists car. Now the new GT3 can be bought in manual it will bring back those purists the they alienated and annoy all of those people who bought the 911R after being told it will be the last manual offering of that nature.
Utter bIt was the same with GT3's, GT4's, Spiders & RS's, its the same with Lamborghini's and its the same as most manufacturers and these limited edition cars that the enthusiasts/collectors miss out on.
I was told i couldn't get a certain Lamborghini for "someone" even though i had got the letter of intent through plus a deposit down in plenty of time. Lamborghini told me that we wouldn't get a car so I decided as its so common and the person who wanted this car would do anything to have one it would be worth seeing if i could do anything to change this. Funnily enough after meeting with the person in charge and an under the table offer was made i got one.
If the Manufacturers knew how rife this was in the trade and actually acted on it then these cars would be available but its now down to who has the deepest pockets rather than, who, in theory is the better customer. After the pockets have been lined accordingly the rest of the cars goes to the VIP customers who the Manufacturers want in there cars then if there are any left, they go down the list of everyone else.
In fact the only large manufacturer who probably has a grip on this is Ferrari as they have very strict rules they if you break them or the dealer does on your behalf then you'll be black listed from getting a new one for a period of time decided by Ferrari themselves.
As for the new Spyder it will be cracking car just like the 2 before it and if it does end up with the 4.0l from the GT3 then great stuff. The downside comes from the price that they will be when the allocation is gone and the "Flippers" start putting them on the market for a 20% premium.
Also the GT4 was probably the best car Porsche had made for a very long time. The GT3 was fast and very capable but being only PDK at the time it wasn't a purists car. Now the new GT3 can be bought in manual it will bring back those purists the they alienated and annoy all of those people who bought the 911R after being told it will be the last manual offering of that nature.
ks.I sold new Porsche for a while, and no cash slips under the table. A salesman doesn't have the clout to allocate vehicles, in the case of the dealership I worked at it would be the sales manager and general manager so you'd need to sling both of them some cash and a GM of a decent Porsche/Lambo dealership doesn't need £5k, nor is it worth risking their job for.
BaronMcLaren said:
I was with you until you owned up to bunging someone to jump the queue (at the expense of someone else)
And if the recipient was daft enough to get involved with this sort of behaviour for £5K he is quite frankly a pillock.
Hope your mate had a good win out of the Lambo when he flipped it ??
get real, this happens and it happens with Porsches too.And if the recipient was daft enough to get involved with this sort of behaviour for £5K he is quite frankly a pillock.
Hope your mate had a good win out of the Lambo when he flipped it ??
ferrari do it in a different way though and force you to spec £70k+'s worth of options
Fast Bug said:
Utter bks.
I sold new Porsche for a while, and no cash slips under the table. A salesman doesn't have the clout to allocate vehicles, in the case of the dealership I worked at it would be the sales manager and general manager so you'd need to sling both of them some cash and a GM of a decent Porsche/Lambo dealership doesn't need £5k, nor is it worth risking their job for.
Well said.ks.I sold new Porsche for a while, and no cash slips under the table. A salesman doesn't have the clout to allocate vehicles, in the case of the dealership I worked at it would be the sales manager and general manager so you'd need to sling both of them some cash and a GM of a decent Porsche/Lambo dealership doesn't need £5k, nor is it worth risking their job for.
Ares said:
If you can't see the difference in ability in being able to write a short article for a free-content website and conducting dentistry, then It's a good job you don't offer it
You're intentionally misrepresenting the sentiment behind my comment in order to shore up a poor argument, which was, to distil your comments - 'you can only put a negative opinion forward unless you can prove you can do better' (MY QUOTES)As you know, that's not how the real world works
Edited by ReverendCounter on Friday 2nd February 16:17
PhantomPH said:
hondansx said:
No way will the Cayman or Boxster get a GT3 engine.
Except that's exactly what the consensus seems to be. Detuned GT3-based engine. Note the word 'based' - so I expect a lot of the more expensive elements to be excluded, but the engine looks almost certain to be able to trace back to the same as in the current GT3.think its wishful thinking personally. will get a four.
Mintbird said:
PhantomPH said:
hondansx said:
No way will the Cayman or Boxster get a GT3 engine.
Except that's exactly what the consensus seems to be. Detuned GT3-based engine. Note the word 'based' - so I expect a lot of the more expensive elements to be excluded, but the engine looks almost certain to be able to trace back to the same as in the current GT3.think its wishful thinking personally. will get a four.
How much do you want on it being an F4T and I'll go for it being the F6. (Note - not a starry-eyed fanboy...just an avid reader of different sources of info)
ReverendCounter said:
Ares said:
If you can't see the difference in ability in being able to write a short article for a free-content website and conducting dentistry, then It's a good job you don't offer it
You're intentionally misrepresenting the sentiment behind my comment in order to shore up a poor argument, which was, to distil your comments - 'you can only put a negative opinion forward unless you can prove you can do better' (MY QUOTES)As you know, that's not how the real world works
Edited by ReverendCounter on Friday 2nd February 16:17
Ares said:
If that's how you read it, you misunderstood.
You did say you're perhaps sensitised/over sensitive to criticism, so perhaps you've had much more than expected.Maybe there's a reason for that. Are you sure you meant to write, 'those who criticise should proffer articles of their own', or something very similar?
I don't need to become a dentist to complain about bad dentistry!
- therefore:
I don't need to become a writer to complain about poorly written articles!
You seem to have a different opinion. I accept that. But I counter your argument that content is above reproach unless negative opinion comes only from one who can prove they do better.
We won't agree on this matter, so I'm happy to leave you to a thread which clearly interests you, given the criticism of it by some and your counter arguments
breadvan said:
I agree too.
By default, the 4.0 engine would make the Spyder a fully-fledged GT model and I can’t see that happening. I’m not sure either Porsche or it’s demographic want it?
I hope it’s NA, but it won’t have a GT engine (even in a detuned state) imho.
The Spyder isn't intended to be a GT model. A detuned GT3 engine is one thing but unlike the GT4 which has the GT3 front suspension the Spyder does not.By default, the 4.0 engine would make the Spyder a fully-fledged GT model and I can’t see that happening. I’m not sure either Porsche or it’s demographic want it?
I hope it’s NA, but it won’t have a GT engine (even in a detuned state) imho.
I always said from day 1 the GT4 was flawed as a GT package as it did not have a GT engine. Great car but let down by the detuned Carrera S engine.
The 981 Spyder had no such pretensions and is regarded by many who own both the GT4 and Spyder with more than just the usual armchair internet b
ks experience oft spouted on forums to be a superior package off track and for real world road driving the better car by far.Edited by av185 on Friday 2nd February 20:10
mainaman said:
av185 said:
Wouldn't know where to start with this one.
If i was Porsche i would set up a team with a full control over the allocation and the sale of the limited models.The dealerships would provide only the delivery of the cars.Then ban the OPC sale of any "used" 911 or mid-engined car in warranty with a pricetag,higher than the original price.Ban the servicing of any 911 or mid-engined car in warranty if the owner is not the first one AND the car is not sold via the OPC channels.The owners would have to sign this waiver.This would ensure that these cars are not sold to flippers.The owners can still sell the cars at the OPC courts anytime as long as the prices are not higher than those they bought the cars for.They can still sell the cars outside the OPC system,but the next owner would not be allowed to service his car at an OPC before the manifacturer warranty expires.Naive,but effective solution,methinks.
Porsche have little control and even.less interest over the non owned franchise and few independent OPCs. How they run their business, as long as it's legal, is up to them. And rightly so.
You cannot fix prices on GT Porsches once they leave the showroom. The market decides the pricing. This is dictated by factors such as the ability of the car it's overall desirability and the simple forces of supply and demand this factor alone having a huge influence on price.
Flipping cannot be totally eradicated and never will be. The first few 911 R s flipped for approaching £1m. A tax free profit in excess of £850k was too much of a temptation and the zero likelihood of future halo car allocation is irrelevant at this level to the flipper.
ReverendCounter said:
Ares said:
If that's how you read it, you misunderstood.
You did say you're perhaps sensitised/over sensitive to criticism, so perhaps you've had much more than expected.Maybe there's a reason for that. Are you sure you meant to write, 'those who criticise should proffer articles of their own', or something very similar?
I don't need to become a dentist to complain about bad dentistry!
- therefore:
I don't need to become a writer to complain about poorly written articles!
You seem to have a different opinion. I accept that. But I counter your argument that content is above reproach unless negative opinion comes only from one who can prove they do better.
We won't agree on this matter, so I'm happy to leave you to a thread which clearly interests you, given the criticism of it by some and your counter arguments
At the end of the day you don't have to believe me I'm just telling you what happened I'm my situation. It wasn't a Salesman who was approached as he, like you said, has no clout for allocation which is why it was a Sales Manager who was. A deal was done with him and although 5k doesn't seem like a lot of money when the deal is he gets 5k for every car he provides you by queue jumping i think you'll find he does very well out of it. Especially when it includes anything new that comes out from them. So Urus, Performantes, Aventador S all of them.... Plus if the demand is high enough and the market is high even though it is a standard model they get preferential treatment for ex demo stock to flip as well.
Porsche are a tougher nut to crack but they can be cracked. Yes it depends on the dealership and how the morals stand up within the branch but it can be done. I know of one family who got 2 991 GT3's which were sold after 3 months then they got 3 GT4's which all got sold after 3months. If they aren't paying money under the table then why is Porsche supplying them cars when they even hauled there own dealers over the coals for buying cars themselves and then selling them for inflated prices which is what happened with a quite a few 991 GT3 RS when they came out. I know another person who got a 981 Spyder just by dropping in the fact that he worked for a large production company and could get tickets and other benefits to some of the UK's largest TV and Live shows and guess what he got a car that was sold out again....
Bungs can be anything from 5k unto about 20k and also covers swapping of services so to speak. So if you are the head of Wembley stadium for instance and can give someone 1 years worth of free box access for a car then it works if the dealer is interested (FYI this is an example).
HMRC needs to investigate for more than one reason, one the Managers and Dealer principles agreeing to this and having cash lying around plus they need to investigate the people who buy these cars with these bungs. The reason for the latter is that a lot of these people buy and sell these cars is because you pay no tax on a profit from a car therefore if you can buy for 150k and sell for 250k you pay no tax on your 100k profit. its easy money and the tax man can't do F all about it as you are buying it as a personal car not a business purchase or business venture.
The best way for Manufacturers to deal with this is to make the buyers sign agreements like Ford have done with the new GT. That way if the person buying it decides to sell before the end of the agreement they are not only liable for breach of contract but they have to hand over any potential profit and are band from the brand for a selected period due to bringing the profile of the brand into disrepute. The Ford Contract states that if you were to sell your car before the end of the agreement it must be through Ford to one of there customers at a price they agree (in other words yes you might get overs but your not going to get silly money).
All the clever ones use the car as a "personally owned company car" so the business can pay off any running costs or finance so they can claim tax back then sell it as a personal item meaning they get to keep all the profit and not worry about what HMRC have to say.
Anyway like i said you don't have to believe me I'm just making people aware that sometimes its not when you put your money down or when you sent you letter of intent. If you have something that the sales manager wants (cash or other benefits) then the chance of you getting a car is much higher.
Porsche are a tougher nut to crack but they can be cracked. Yes it depends on the dealership and how the morals stand up within the branch but it can be done. I know of one family who got 2 991 GT3's which were sold after 3 months then they got 3 GT4's which all got sold after 3months. If they aren't paying money under the table then why is Porsche supplying them cars when they even hauled there own dealers over the coals for buying cars themselves and then selling them for inflated prices which is what happened with a quite a few 991 GT3 RS when they came out. I know another person who got a 981 Spyder just by dropping in the fact that he worked for a large production company and could get tickets and other benefits to some of the UK's largest TV and Live shows and guess what he got a car that was sold out again....
Bungs can be anything from 5k unto about 20k and also covers swapping of services so to speak. So if you are the head of Wembley stadium for instance and can give someone 1 years worth of free box access for a car then it works if the dealer is interested (FYI this is an example).
HMRC needs to investigate for more than one reason, one the Managers and Dealer principles agreeing to this and having cash lying around plus they need to investigate the people who buy these cars with these bungs. The reason for the latter is that a lot of these people buy and sell these cars is because you pay no tax on a profit from a car therefore if you can buy for 150k and sell for 250k you pay no tax on your 100k profit. its easy money and the tax man can't do F all about it as you are buying it as a personal car not a business purchase or business venture.
The best way for Manufacturers to deal with this is to make the buyers sign agreements like Ford have done with the new GT. That way if the person buying it decides to sell before the end of the agreement they are not only liable for breach of contract but they have to hand over any potential profit and are band from the brand for a selected period due to bringing the profile of the brand into disrepute. The Ford Contract states that if you were to sell your car before the end of the agreement it must be through Ford to one of there customers at a price they agree (in other words yes you might get overs but your not going to get silly money).
All the clever ones use the car as a "personally owned company car" so the business can pay off any running costs or finance so they can claim tax back then sell it as a personal item meaning they get to keep all the profit and not worry about what HMRC have to say.
Anyway like i said you don't have to believe me I'm just making people aware that sometimes its not when you put your money down or when you sent you letter of intent. If you have something that the sales manager wants (cash or other benefits) then the chance of you getting a car is much higher.
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