RE: Volkswagen I.D. R shatters FoS electric car record

[BeirutTaxi]

All a bit cold and soulless compared to the dinosaur, V12 racing cars

https://youtu.be/XFRM8Sna5X4

[NDNDNDND]

I'm not sure why anyone is hailing this as some sort of watershed moment. This is an example of two cars operating well, within the narrow operating window for which they have been designed.

While a modern F1 or Le Mans car could keep these two honest up Goodwood Hill, neither the NIO or ID-R could compete in anything resembling a conventional motor race. The ID-R is designed to last for only 8 minutes, and the NIO can only do one lap of the Nordschliefe at a time (it can't even do an installation lap and has to drive the wrong way down the track and turn around to get a run-up).

The speed of these cars is undoubtedly impressive, but the distance over which they can do it, isn't...

[jason61c]

Very boring to watch, just like Formula E.

While battery powered cars might be 'the future', its effectively going to ruin the spectacle that racing is. Its amazing how the lack of sound kills the atmosphere and the thrill as a spectator.

[antspants]

Did those there or watching the stream see the I.D.R's trip across the grass earlier in the day, it looked like it was going to end rather embarrassingly but very well held.

[selym]

It's impressive in an engineering sense, but doesn't really get people's juices flowing I guess.

[Ahonen]

markcoznottz said:

Why is the NIO on slicks? It takes away from its achievement.

It was probably on slicks to go faster. It was on slicks at the 'Ring, too.

Goodwood is well suited to electric vehicles, as said. Although fast at the 'Ring it was well over a minute slower than the 919. I suspect that an average lap time over 3 laps would have seen a slightly larger gap between the cars...

[redroadster]

Looks like the future is all electric cars both road and track but been at goodwood this weekend the noise of the screaming f1 cars and others are what its about for me and the smell of petrol but id like to know what they will do to get noise added to these milk floats ?

[selym]

redroadster said:

Looks like the future is all electric cars both road and track but been at goodwood this weekend the noise of the screaming f1 cars and others are what its about for me and the smell of petrol but id like to know what they will do to get noise added to these milk floats ?

Ice cream van music?

[Cotty]

That's seriously shifting

[garypotter]

nickfrog said:

tr3a said:

Wills2 said:

Without noise there is no drama or excitement see Formula E for details.

You're right! Motorsports competition is not about being the fastest at all. It's about noise and drama and excitement. And stuff. It's got absolutely nothing to do with competition, it's purely entertainment for those watching it. Everybody knows that.

Formula E has been a great show this season anyway, sounds better than current F1, which is not difficult...

"Formula E has been a great show this season anyway" seriously i have missed out I keep trying to get involved seen 4 races but all a pile of st, all right angled bends in cities no real race tracks pointless series imho. A series for manufacturers to be GREEN..... or to be seen being green

[tankplanker]

Talksteer said:

The 2018 F1 car is a basically the fastest F1 car there has ever been with only the 2004 3l V10 for competition. The Porsche is faster than the 2018 F1 car on certain circuits.

Thats comparing apples with oranges, where the apple tree is allowed to have unlimited fertiliser and the orange tree is tightly regulated.

The current 919 publicity runs are with the WEC's aero, fuel flow and battery limits removed so it is considerably faster than what the 919 would achieve if it stuck to them. Plus at worst the 919's components only have to last for the the duration of the publicity event so they can turn it right the way up if they want to.

The F1 car's times are under a strict fuel/battery flow/weight limit, the entire power train has to last between 6 and 7 races (as only three a season), aero is heavily regulated, gear ratios are set for half a season (not actual track they are racing at) and the tyres Pirelli develop for F1 are intentionally crap as they degrade (see Brendon Hartley's comments on comparing the Michelin LMP1 and Pirelli F1 tyres). If you let Ferrari or Mercedes off the leash with the fuel and battery flow, gave them better tyres, let them tweak the gear ratios for that track, I'd expect them to eat the 919 alive at almost all tracks for one lap pace.

I seem to remember reading that the publicity 919 is running with upwards of another 250 BHP over the 919 that actually competed in last years WEC. If you gave the F1 cars a similar bump the timings would be very different.

[Ahonen]

tankplanker said:

Talksteer said:

The 2018 F1 car is a basically the fastest F1 car there has ever been with only the 2004 3l V10 for competition. The Porsche is faster than the 2018 F1 car on certain circuits.

Thats comparing apples with oranges, where the apple tree is allowed to have unlimited fertiliser and the orange tree is tightly regulated.

The current 919 publicity runs are with the WEC's aero, fuel flow and battery limits removed so it is considerably faster than what the 919 would achieve if it stuck to them. Plus at worst the 919's components only have to last for the the duration of the publicity event so they can turn it right the way up if they want to.

The F1 car's times are under a strict fuel/battery flow/weight limit, the entire power train has to last between 6 and 7 races (as only three a season), aero is heavily regulated, gear ratios are set for half a season (not actual track they are racing at) and the tyres Pirelli develop for F1 are intentionally crap as they degrade (see Brendon Hartley's comments on comparing the Michelin LMP1 and Pirelli F1 tyres). If you let Ferrari or Mercedes off the leash with the fuel and battery flow, gave them better tyres, let them tweak the gear ratios for that track, I'd expect them to eat the 919 alive at almost all tracks for one lap pace.

I seem to remember reading that the publicity 919 is running with upwards of another 250 BHP over the 919 that actually competed in last years WEC. If you gave the F1 cars a similar bump the timings would be very different.

I think the fellow you replied to was mainly referring to going up the hill at Goodwood in terms of performance metrics. We all know the 919 Tribute isn't running to a rulebook and we all know a derestricted F1 car would be faster because it is well over 100kg lighter and has around 30% more rubber on the road, so it is common sense - however no one has derestricted an F1 car yet so we don't know by how much.

[The Voice]

If an MP4/13 did a 41.6 back in 1999, there's very little doubt in my mind that a 919 Evo, complete with 4wd traction from a standing start, would comfortably beat that time if it were to be timed up the hill. I think it would break in the high 30's.

It is, after all, as quick / quicker than contemporary F1 cars, which themselves are far quicker than F1 machines from the 90's.

The I.D.R wouldn't see which way it went...

Edited by The Voice on Monday 16th July 14:48

[pardonmyenglish]

jason61c said:

Very boring to watch, just like Formula E.

While battery powered cars might be 'the future', its effectively going to ruin the spectacle that racing is. Its amazing how the lack of sound kills the atmosphere and the thrill as a spectator.

The way I see it is that vintage racing is going to be immensely popular in the future. And what about a new category, only NA, no electronics besides ignition and may be injection. Same with the motorcycles.

I'm fed up with the green bullst they try to shove down our throat.

All that focus on the cars but what about the ever growing population/tourism/air transportation/dirty cargo ships usage...etc

[Plug Life]

85Carrera said:

I think you’re on the wrong website. This is PistonHeads not fking Mumsnet ...

You mean EVs spank ICEd cars' arses like mums do? You've got a point

[Mafffew]

What I don't understand is why the newer F1 cars are rolled out just to do donuts & show off.

Surely someone from Mercedes or Ferrari was tempted to let one of their cars off the leash?

[tankplanker]

Mafffew said:

What I don't understand is why the newer F1 cars are rolled out just to do donuts & show off.

Surely someone from Mercedes or Ferrari was tempted to let one of their cars off the leash?

Its against the Goodwood rules due to safety to set an official time for F1 cars. I'd expect an arms race between the manufacturers if they did allow F1 cars to set official timings again.

[Mafffew]

tankplanker said:

Mafffew said:

What I don't understand is why the newer F1 cars are rolled out just to do donuts & show off.

Surely someone from Mercedes or Ferrari was tempted to let one of their cars off the leash?

Its against the Goodwood rules due to safety to set an official time for F1 cars. I'd expect an arms race between the manufacturers if they did allow F1 cars to set official timings again.

I didn't know that was an official rule? Just the teams didn't want to run the risk of repeating the accident in 2000.

[bosshog]

Just reminds me of a big remote controlled electric car. Does nothing for me.

[Talksteer]

rodericb said:

big_rob_sydney said:

EV is still immature compared to the ~century of specialised development ICE has had.

.

So everything else except the powertrain and 'fuel system' is not existing technology? Those wheels are held in place with Saarlac tentacles? And what would be the weight difference in powertrain between this Volkwagen and, say, that car with Loeb did six seconds slower four odd years ago (in his first time at the event)? Negligible I'd guess.

I reference you back to my long rambling post on technology, currently electric vehicles are essentially fitting electric propulsion into ICE platforms. The IDR was actually based on an existing chassis.

Eventually electric propulsion will allow you to do things radically different compared to an ICE car, things like where the driver sits, how many wheels it has, how it is steered are all back up for grabs.