RE: Shed of the Week: Range Rover (P38)
Discussion
dme123 said:
I love threads on these, you get a handful of people who bought one and got luck but recognise it was luck, then always the 300bhp/ton sorts who get all hot under the collar about the terrible lies people who have never owned one tell about P38 reliability and quality, and then hordes of ex owners with tales of true wallet shattering woe 
Personally I can't see why you'd tolerate the fuel and repair costs to get so little back. For 13mpg I'd want the car to be good at something.
Seats are comfy.Personally I can't see why you'd tolerate the fuel and repair costs to get so little back. For 13mpg I'd want the car to be good at something.
spookly said:
dme123 said:
I love threads on these, you get a handful of people who bought one and got luck but recognise it was luck, then always the 300bhp/ton sorts who get all hot under the collar about the terrible lies people who have never owned one tell about P38 reliability and quality, and then hordes of ex owners with tales of true wallet shattering woe
Personally I can't see why you'd tolerate the fuel and repair costs to get so little back. For 13mpg I'd want the car to be good at something.
Seats are comfy.Personally I can't see why you'd tolerate the fuel and repair costs to get so little back. For 13mpg I'd want the car to be good at something.
spookly said:
dme123 said:
I
Personally I can't see why you'd tolerate the fuel and repair costs to get so little back. For 13mpg I'd want the car to be good at something.
Seats are comfy.Personally I can't see why you'd tolerate the fuel and repair costs to get so little back. For 13mpg I'd want the car to be good at something.
The compromise is that they wallow around like a motor yacht, too. They tautened everything up and added a lot of roll resistance on the L322, to make it drive more like a 'normal' car, but they wrecked the ride quality in the process.
J4CKO said:
There seems to be a lifecycle with old RR's where they go from being the latest thing and looking really swanky and posh, then they plummet down and look a bit old and tragic, especially when they get into the hands of those who want them to look extra "special", even the most committed bling fan on a budget knows a P38 isnt kidding anyone any more.
Not the same model, granted, but I think the same applies to this monstrosity that is near where I live. Definitely been 'Khan'd' 
Edited by Fastchas on Sunday 26th May 15:15
I quite like these, had two previously (and also quoted in the SOTW article).
4.6 has good pull from the engine, and mine was on coil springs, so no probs with suspension. Was mechanically reliable too.
But electrics and interior build quality not up to par, especially given their price tag when new. Sit in a similar vintage S Class, for example, and they are worlds apart in terms of quality. The Merc will still feel well put-together.
Had an L322 a few years back as well, and that is also on another level and much better-built than the P38. A lot of the switch gear is by BMW, so hold together better than on the P38 model plus its a much more refined driving experience than the P38.
On a different note, I saw an RR Classic (early 80s) 3 door example yesterday whilst taking the dog for a walk. Looks so simple yet robust and purposeful, and had a nice beefy V8 growl. It did look like it was about to topple when going around the corner though!
4.6 has good pull from the engine, and mine was on coil springs, so no probs with suspension. Was mechanically reliable too.
But electrics and interior build quality not up to par, especially given their price tag when new. Sit in a similar vintage S Class, for example, and they are worlds apart in terms of quality. The Merc will still feel well put-together.
Had an L322 a few years back as well, and that is also on another level and much better-built than the P38. A lot of the switch gear is by BMW, so hold together better than on the P38 model plus its a much more refined driving experience than the P38.
On a different note, I saw an RR Classic (early 80s) 3 door example yesterday whilst taking the dog for a walk. Looks so simple yet robust and purposeful, and had a nice beefy V8 growl. It did look like it was about to topple when going around the corner though!
I think the thing to bear in mind with Land Rover products is that you get a big variation in terms of reliability and quality off the same production line, so it's s pretty much down to pot luck what you get.
My father had two successive Discovery 2 diesels, and had to endure all the usual reliability horror stories from people who'd had them and had to sink thousands into keeping them running.
The first one was absolutely faultless for the 5 years he had it. It needed servicing, tyres and consumables, pretty much. Had to replace a couple of hoses, and a battery, but that really was it. Never let him down once.
Replaced with a second one (mechanically identical), which was fine for 6 months or so, then turned into what is easily the most unreliable vehicle I have ever known. ACE problems, air suspension problems, random electrical problems, intermittent cutting out / loss of power, and an intermittent starting issue that nobody could sort out, Every time something got ticked off the fault list, something else had appeared to take its place. Between the various issues, he was left stranded twice. He was spending a couple of grand a year on it most years, before eventually seeing sense and moving it on. It was 10 years old at this point, and the thing was dying.
Both had good dealer and independent service histories, both were well looked after cars, but they were complete extremes of reliability.
My father had two successive Discovery 2 diesels, and had to endure all the usual reliability horror stories from people who'd had them and had to sink thousands into keeping them running.
The first one was absolutely faultless for the 5 years he had it. It needed servicing, tyres and consumables, pretty much. Had to replace a couple of hoses, and a battery, but that really was it. Never let him down once.
Replaced with a second one (mechanically identical), which was fine for 6 months or so, then turned into what is easily the most unreliable vehicle I have ever known. ACE problems, air suspension problems, random electrical problems, intermittent cutting out / loss of power, and an intermittent starting issue that nobody could sort out, Every time something got ticked off the fault list, something else had appeared to take its place. Between the various issues, he was left stranded twice. He was spending a couple of grand a year on it most years, before eventually seeing sense and moving it on. It was 10 years old at this point, and the thing was dying.
Both had good dealer and independent service histories, both were well looked after cars, but they were complete extremes of reliability.
Well, everyone, I've owned my P38A for 2.5-years and it's not given me any grief, other than a tailgate light bulb blowing! It helps if you buy a good one in the first place, rather than buying a shed and spend a few grand on it (where you could of bought a gooden for a fraction more) - I hope this thread sifts the uncared for P38s from the good as they genuinely drive the nicest out of all the RR's (4.6 V8)! Its cabin quality (I've got an Autobiography), road-comfort, and body-size are just perfect! And they don't rust as badly as the older Classics & early L322's - As for aesthetics, I love it, it isn't too fancy or in your face, but it's still present. I love the P38A for nostalgic, and styling reasons. Its clean styling addressed many design flaws the Classic had (joints/trim)...thus explaining why they rust a heck of a lot less! & didn't the MetroCab come after the P38's launch in 1994, so its the MetrcoCab that copied the RR - regardless, look at what it did for the brand, it made RR a luxury marque as in its day not much came close to it!
And for those who think P38A ownership is about Luck, it isn't..... just buy one that was "MAINTAINED" and it will look after you! -Case Dismissed!
And for those who think P38A ownership is about Luck, it isn't..... just buy one that was "MAINTAINED" and it will look after you! -Case Dismissed!
These were the brand new shape of Range Rover when I was doing my apprenticeship with MG Rover.
I got to drive a couple on the site, and would accompany the quality team for the body-in-white audits at Solihull.
These are my favourite by association, therefore, despite the previous shape being the timeless classic, and the subsequent L322 being far more attractive.
Never had one, or the disposable space and time to consider acquiring a bargain to play with ...... one day!
I got to drive a couple on the site, and would accompany the quality team for the body-in-white audits at Solihull.
These are my favourite by association, therefore, despite the previous shape being the timeless classic, and the subsequent L322 being far more attractive.
Never had one, or the disposable space and time to consider acquiring a bargain to play with ...... one day!
88NSR said:
Well, everyone, I've owned my P38A for 2.5-years and it's not given me any grief, other than a tailgate light bulb blowing! It helps if you buy a good one in the first place, rather than buying a shed and spend a few grand on it (where you could of bought a gooden for a fraction more) - I hope this thread sifts the uncared for P38s from the good as they genuinely drive the nicest out of all the RR's (4.6 V8)! Its cabin quality (I've got an Autobiography), road-comfort, and body-size are just perfect! And they don't rust as badly as the older Classics & early L322's - As for aesthetics, I love it, it isn't too fancy or in your face, but it's still present. I love the P38A for nostalgic, and styling reasons. Its clean styling addressed many design flaws the Classic had (joints/trim)...thus explaining why they rust a heck of a lot less! & didn't the MetroCab come after the P38's launch in 1994, so its the MetrcoCab that copied the RR - regardless, look at what it did for the brand, it made RR a luxury marque as in its day not much came close to it!
And for those who think P38A ownership is about Luck, it isn't..... just buy one that was "MAINTAINED" and it will look after you! -Case Dismissed!
HmmmmAnd for those who think P38A ownership is about Luck, it isn't..... just buy one that was "MAINTAINED" and it will look after you! -Case Dismissed!
I've owned a Classic, P38 and now have a Supercharged L322.
The L322 is leagues ahead of both in terms of build quality and performance.
Each to their own I guess, we had a 2005 L322 4.2 Supercharged, and to drive it was nice (mind you, not as comfortable as the P38A's air-set up) but it felt solid.......However, it would eat through suspension components/bushes at an alarming rate (due to its weight). And I think ours might of been a Friday job as the infotainment system used to freeze constantly, and like old BMW's, it would start to rust around the rear upper tailgate seem, inner rear door corners, and start bubbling towards the rear wheel arches (at only 5-years old!).
So yes, maybe the L322 was more car-like to drive, had better quality materials/and a great feeling of solidity but was it built any better than the P38A.....That's debatable
So yes, maybe the L322 was more car-like to drive, had better quality materials/and a great feeling of solidity but was it built any better than the P38A.....That's debatable
I've had a number of RRs over the years. I may have been unlucky but my one P38 (R plate HSE around 2007) had some of the weirdest electrical issues I've seen and proved to be one of the least reliable cars I have ever owned! Flat batteries and random error messages were a regular event in P38s! It finally died with the porous block/slipped liner issue making it pretty much not worth repairing. Never had an issue with the air suspension on it though.
One amusing gremlin:
Nice sunny day, parked the car in the street near the house, locked up and went home. A while later the Mrs comes in.
"Your wipers are on" she says casually.
"?"
I went out to take a look and sure enough the car was sat there in the sunshine with the wipers going. It was still locked and alarmed with the key in my pocket. These cars didn't even have rain sensing wipers.
Can't remember for sure what the problem was, corrosion in the fuse box I think.
Still driving RRs, currently a late L322, would have a classic again but not a P38.
One amusing gremlin:
Nice sunny day, parked the car in the street near the house, locked up and went home. A while later the Mrs comes in.
"Your wipers are on" she says casually.
"?"
I went out to take a look and sure enough the car was sat there in the sunshine with the wipers going. It was still locked and alarmed with the key in my pocket. These cars didn't even have rain sensing wipers.
Can't remember for sure what the problem was, corrosion in the fuse box I think.
Still driving RRs, currently a late L322, would have a classic again but not a P38.
I have owned two, the first a 99 Thor 4.6 bought unseen from the internet for £1250 back in 2014 as a run around, ran it for two years and it had a battery and some air springs which I fitted my self and I refurbed the compressor. Centre box delete made it sound amazing. Sold it in a misguided attempt to have a more sensible run around a 530i touring it lasted 6 months and cost far more than the P38 did.
Then I bought a lovely 2001 Vogue, in Oslo Blue, that one cost £2500 and to be honest it wasn't any better to drive than the 99, that needed a compressor refurb which I did and really wanted a blend motor but didnt get around to that. Satnav was a pest to repair to be honest and the very rare Vogue SE models (and westminsters) have a stupidly rare and expensive amp. Brilliant car though
Neither on gas and no issues.
I then went to a 2007 Supercharged L322 - wonderful car big miles and nothing wrong with at all and most recently had a 2002 L322 as a cheapie, garbage to be honest it looked OK but not a patch on the later L322 in terms of build quality and performance.
Then I bought a lovely 2001 Vogue, in Oslo Blue, that one cost £2500 and to be honest it wasn't any better to drive than the 99, that needed a compressor refurb which I did and really wanted a blend motor but didnt get around to that. Satnav was a pest to repair to be honest and the very rare Vogue SE models (and westminsters) have a stupidly rare and expensive amp. Brilliant car though
Neither on gas and no issues.
I then went to a 2007 Supercharged L322 - wonderful car big miles and nothing wrong with at all and most recently had a 2002 L322 as a cheapie, garbage to be honest it looked OK but not a patch on the later L322 in terms of build quality and performance.
To give an idea of the fuel consumption....
I once drove Wifey's 4.0 V8 P38 from Staffordshire to Preston with a trailer to fetch a car. I filled up the 100 litre (!) tank and got to Preston on about 1/3 of a tank (so about 90 miles from about 8 gallons - 11.25 mpg)
I then drove back to Birmingham with a 1.3 tonne car on the trailer and I had to stop at Cannock to prevent running out of fuel before I got to Brum - about 90 miles on 10 gallons - about 9 mpg. I put £30 in and STILL had to put more in to get home....
Total round trip of about 250 miles - At no point during the day did I ever exceed 60mph. Total fuel consumed was about 120 litres / 26 gallons, for an average of just under 10mpg.
I also did Staffordshire to Tenby in South Wales - it did the 230 miles there at a gentle cruise (sub 70mph) on about half a tank, so about 50 litres, giving a very respectable 21mpg. On the way back late in the evening, the roads were almost deserted and everyone else in the car fell asleep, so I eased the speed up a little (well, a lot, actually). It took about 80 litres to get back, so about 13mpg. It wasn't very happy cruising at anything above about 70-75, as it just felt like it was working a bit too hard.
To be fair to the car, when it was working, it was a lovely old thing to waft around in. Off-road, it was spectacular, driving up and down things that you couldn't have walked up. However, it broke down too many times and in the end after the flex-plate sheared for the third time, I flogged it for spares and repair for a grand. A local guy bought it and ran it for another few years before it disappeared, presumably to a P38 graveyard somewhere.
EDIT - one more positive story
My son and I travelled to South Wales in my Alfa GT (with winter tyres) during the "beast from the east" snow of early March 2018. On the way back, the snow got worse and worse, with many cars (including 4x4s) deserted by the side of the road. At one point, on the M4 at 5pm on a Friday, we could not see one other moving car. Later, on the very last bit of the M50 just before it joins the M5, we saw a 4x4 struggling up a slight incline, with a 40-tonne artic right behind it. My son and I chuckled once more about a 4x4 on the wrong tyres. As we got closer, we could see it was a P38. As we got even closer, we saw the tow chain between the P38 and the artic....
I once drove Wifey's 4.0 V8 P38 from Staffordshire to Preston with a trailer to fetch a car. I filled up the 100 litre (!) tank and got to Preston on about 1/3 of a tank (so about 90 miles from about 8 gallons - 11.25 mpg)
I then drove back to Birmingham with a 1.3 tonne car on the trailer and I had to stop at Cannock to prevent running out of fuel before I got to Brum - about 90 miles on 10 gallons - about 9 mpg. I put £30 in and STILL had to put more in to get home....
Total round trip of about 250 miles - At no point during the day did I ever exceed 60mph. Total fuel consumed was about 120 litres / 26 gallons, for an average of just under 10mpg.
I also did Staffordshire to Tenby in South Wales - it did the 230 miles there at a gentle cruise (sub 70mph) on about half a tank, so about 50 litres, giving a very respectable 21mpg. On the way back late in the evening, the roads were almost deserted and everyone else in the car fell asleep, so I eased the speed up a little (well, a lot, actually). It took about 80 litres to get back, so about 13mpg. It wasn't very happy cruising at anything above about 70-75, as it just felt like it was working a bit too hard.
To be fair to the car, when it was working, it was a lovely old thing to waft around in. Off-road, it was spectacular, driving up and down things that you couldn't have walked up. However, it broke down too many times and in the end after the flex-plate sheared for the third time, I flogged it for spares and repair for a grand. A local guy bought it and ran it for another few years before it disappeared, presumably to a P38 graveyard somewhere.
EDIT - one more positive story
My son and I travelled to South Wales in my Alfa GT (with winter tyres) during the "beast from the east" snow of early March 2018. On the way back, the snow got worse and worse, with many cars (including 4x4s) deserted by the side of the road. At one point, on the M4 at 5pm on a Friday, we could not see one other moving car. Later, on the very last bit of the M50 just before it joins the M5, we saw a 4x4 struggling up a slight incline, with a 40-tonne artic right behind it. My son and I chuckled once more about a 4x4 on the wrong tyres. As we got closer, we could see it was a P38. As we got even closer, we saw the tow chain between the P38 and the artic....
Edited by Nigel_O on Friday 24th May 16:08
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