RE: Watch onboard video of ID.R's 6min 05.336secs lap
Discussion
Three very small observations:
- Its stupendously quick! Although the top speed on the main straight was down - its so fast everywhere else - the actual feeling of driving it must be quite something.
- The noise is actually not dissimilar to a lot of full blown racing cars as you hear more of the gear whine and less of the engine noise when inside driving them.
- Interesting that the driver chose to miss the concrete at the Karousel - I'm assuming that there's more grip on the asphalt and the undulations on the concrete could upset some pretty sensitive wiring/electrics...
- Its stupendously quick! Although the top speed on the main straight was down - its so fast everywhere else - the actual feeling of driving it must be quite something.
- The noise is actually not dissimilar to a lot of full blown racing cars as you hear more of the gear whine and less of the engine noise when inside driving them.
- Interesting that the driver chose to miss the concrete at the Karousel - I'm assuming that there's more grip on the asphalt and the undulations on the concrete could upset some pretty sensitive wiring/electrics...
Seems like VW are trying hard to make us forget dieselgate! 
As for V-max, it would appear to be the achilles heel for an electric car. You see it on acceleration runs with T vs X. T blows away X, but X has higher top speed. I wonder what causes that?
And as for the sound - I suspect it was greatly turned down on this video so we couldn't hear it's eldritch screech!
I think it's "Nannie" from "Tam O'Shanter"!
"As bees bizz out wi' angry fyke,
When plundering herds assail their byke;
As open pussie's mortal foes,
When, pop! she starts before their nose;
As eager runs the market-crowd,
When "Catch the thief!" resounds aloud;
So Maggie runs, the witches follow,
Wi' mony an eldritch skreich and hollow. "
Robbie Burns
As for V-max, it would appear to be the achilles heel for an electric car. You see it on acceleration runs with T vs X. T blows away X, but X has higher top speed. I wonder what causes that?
And as for the sound - I suspect it was greatly turned down on this video so we couldn't hear it's eldritch screech!
I think it's "Nannie" from "Tam O'Shanter"!"As bees bizz out wi' angry fyke,
When plundering herds assail their byke;
As open pussie's mortal foes,
When, pop! she starts before their nose;
As eager runs the market-crowd,
When "Catch the thief!" resounds aloud;
So Maggie runs, the witches follow,
Wi' mony an eldritch skreich and hollow. "
Robbie Burns
Edited by romac on Tuesday 4th June 14:13
BathyThermo said:
Then you follow it up with saying you would take it out for a spin.
I'm not saying you have to like it, but as a car fan, I can't see why you wouldn't find this at least a bit interesting, even if it's not your cup of tea.
You say it bores you, yet I'd imagine we agree that driving it would be about as far from boring as can be.
I followed up by saying I’d take it out for a spin as I would 99.99% of cars. Simple enough statement. Implies nothing.I'm not saying you have to like it, but as a car fan, I can't see why you wouldn't find this at least a bit interesting, even if it's not your cup of tea.
You say it bores you, yet I'd imagine we agree that driving it would be about as far from boring as can be.
Why does being a car fan mean I should find it interesting. My Grandad was a car fan, he had no interest in the cars I had at all (CGT etc) Put an E Type in front of him and he’d be there for hours looking at it.
We don’t all like the same things. Just because you find something interesting etc doesn’t mean the rest of the world follows suit. Again....we can all like and get excited by different things.
In no way trying to put the car down, it’s an incredible offering for sure....it just doesn’t interest or excite me like other cars do.
AMGSee55 said:
wc98 said:
good effort, but as said it definitely looks more interesting to drive than watch. looks like battery was running low well before the end of lap going by speeds earlier in lap compared to speed hit on the straight.
i reckon that is around the pace a modern gp bike could run round there if allowed, maybe even sub 6, but i doubt we ever find out.
Was about 270kph I recall top end in the earlier part of the lap and seemed to be around 250 on the final straight, so yes presumably it was running out of juice. Guess it might have cracked the 6 min marker otherwise. Confess I would rather watch the moto gp boys giving it some beans round there rather than the IDR - very impressive but somehow sterile as others have alluded to.i reckon that is around the pace a modern gp bike could run round there if allowed, maybe even sub 6, but i doubt we ever find out.
The top speed is probably limited by the gearing, generally motors tend to exhibit a behaviour where they are torque limited up to a certain RPM (torque is flat power increases linearly) and then power limited (power is flat with torque dropping off linearly with increased RPM) with efficiency dropping off at higher RPM.
What Tesla have been very effective in doing is extending the rev range where the motor is in the constant power mode, this allowed them to gear their motors down much further and thus allow high acceleration and very high top speed.
I suspect that the Tesla Roadster Mk II might be able to beat this time with slicks and wings on it given that it will be able to outpace an F1 car in straight line and has a top speed of 250mph, with a 200kwh battery it won't run out of juice either. Also see cold gas thrusters...
A) It's not an 'Iconic' car though is it.. I was at the ring when it was doing laps a few weeks ago, and I couldn't name it then, nor now even having just watched the video.
B) I've never been so bored watching a lap of the ring.... I didn't even make it to Flugplatz. An achievement no doubt, but...it doesn't appeal to me.
B) I've never been so bored watching a lap of the ring.... I didn't even make it to Flugplatz. An achievement no doubt, but...it doesn't appeal to me.
ninepoint2 said:
Speed1283 said:
I know it's the future, I know this car is amazing and I know that the record is very impressive... But it sounds pretty awful.. I mean it's not silent.. but I just don't find it very interesting!
This..I got bored after less that 2 minutes
Talksteer said:
I suspect that the Moto GP bikes would be in the 6:40 range as looking at lap times then tend to be around the same qualification pace as LMGTE-AM cars. Obviously they'd also be the odd death...
i have only looked at donington and the lap record in those cars is around 2 secs a lap slower in 2012 than a 2006 moto gp bike. i'm having a hard time believing a theoretical lap by a moto gp bike and rider is only 1m10s faster than bloke on a fifteen year old r1 ,over just shy of thirteen miles that hasn't raced above club level afaik. could well be wrong though.wc98 said:
Talksteer said:
I suspect that the Moto GP bikes would be in the 6:40 range as looking at lap times then tend to be around the same qualification pace as LMGTE-AM cars. Obviously they'd also be the odd death...
i have only looked at donington and the lap record in those cars is around 2 secs a lap slower in 2012 than a 2006 moto gp bike. i'm having a hard time believing a theoretical lap by a moto gp bike and rider is only 1m10s faster than bloke on a fifteen year old r1 ,over just shy of thirteen miles that hasn't raced above club level afaik. could well be wrong though.isaldiri said:
2017 motogp qualifying time at just under 2 mins at Silverstone would be probably a bit slower than GT3 class qualifying times. Assuming one could extrapolate circuit times (big assumption) 6:30-40 per above doesn't seem unreasonable I think.
i thought donington might be a better comparison due to the nature of the track but your example does suggest they would be a lot slower than i originally thought.CedricN said:
the drivetrain is not very exciting, but what impressed me was the rest of the car. It goes so smoothly and seems to have immense aero capabilities, really a super well sorted race car.
A lot of that "smoothness" is due to the drivetrain! The inverter controlled electric motors can modulate wheel torque very finely, and very quickly. Typical wheel torque control resolution can be as little as 1 Nm, and control bandwidth can easily be 1 KHz (ie 1000 times per second) And without either a bulky, vibrating engine, or the need for large cooling packs, the body itself can be shrunk wrapped around that drivetrain, giving a very small frontal area and low drag.What does that precision control enable you ask? Well, take a look at this:
precision_electric_donuts_from_audi
;-)
It's unsettling in some ways; Without the engine sound a lot of aural feedback is lost - With no induction, exhaust or rev-scream in the cabin the speed is very much lost - As somone above mentioned, just listening to the sound of a Lola T76 in a hidden tab gives you an idea of what's happening.
Acceleration through the gears; The elongation of top end and the rev limiter...
https://youtu.be/4MKAf6YX_7M?list=RD22lISUXgSUw
It does strip a lot of information away; Hopefully "sorry officer, I didn't know how fast I was going" will be a valid excuse up to 150
Acceleration through the gears; The elongation of top end and the rev limiter...
https://youtu.be/4MKAf6YX_7M?list=RD22lISUXgSUw
It does strip a lot of information away; Hopefully "sorry officer, I didn't know how fast I was going" will be a valid excuse up to 150
As echoed above, I'm a luddite, I tried watching the video and it just felt cold to me. By comparison I watched this the other day:
https://youtu.be/YaZLV_1tml0
(biased as I love the 250 gto ), but ignoring the obvious differences (including the circuit) and focusing on the basic fact that it's a car on a track. It's a significantly slower car than the VW IDR but I know which is more exciting to watch (to me).
But yes, I accept that EVs are the future, there's no denying that, especially as battery technology improves. Be interesting to see when VW go for the overall record (or who is next to try).
https://youtu.be/YaZLV_1tml0
(biased as I love the 250 gto ), but ignoring the obvious differences (including the circuit) and focusing on the basic fact that it's a car on a track. It's a significantly slower car than the VW IDR but I know which is more exciting to watch (to me).
But yes, I accept that EVs are the future, there's no denying that, especially as battery technology improves. Be interesting to see when VW go for the overall record (or who is next to try).
It's a safe bet that with a chunk more battery on board it could have hit significantly higher speeds down the long straight at the end.
But it would then have been significantly slower earlier on, because of the extra weight.
Given the number of simulator runs they've done, one can only assume that they ran it in the configuration which gave them the best overall lap time rather than the highest top speed down the straight. Very much as you have to make that decision when you set up your aero, and lots of other detail factors.
But it would then have been significantly slower earlier on, because of the extra weight.
Given the number of simulator runs they've done, one can only assume that they ran it in the configuration which gave them the best overall lap time rather than the highest top speed down the straight. Very much as you have to make that decision when you set up your aero, and lots of other detail factors.
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