RE: Litchfield adds 200hp to 992 Carrera 911
Discussion
All sounds great, but this is par for the course for any turbo car.
The big question is whether you're willing to be the guinea pig here - the car has made the numbers, but for how long?
I'm not sure I'd throw away the warranty on such an expensive car. It comes down to that question of whether a dealer can see it has been mapped (or un-mapped for that matter).
The big question is whether you're willing to be the guinea pig here - the car has made the numbers, but for how long?
I'm not sure I'd throw away the warranty on such an expensive car. It comes down to that question of whether a dealer can see it has been mapped (or un-mapped for that matter).
k me.
thelostboy said:
All sounds great, but this is par for the course for any turbo car.
The big question is whether you're willing to be the guinea pig here - the car has made the numbers, but for how long?
I'm not sure I'd throw away the warranty on such an expensive car. It comes down to that question of whether a dealer can see it has been mapped (or un-mapped for that matter).
Litchfield are about as respectable as it gets with regard to tuning, i personally wouldn't mod a car under warranty.The big question is whether you're willing to be the guinea pig here - the car has made the numbers, but for how long?
I'm not sure I'd throw away the warranty on such an expensive car. It comes down to that question of whether a dealer can see it has been mapped (or un-mapped for that matter).
How much are Litchfield adding that it already produced but Porsche didn't want to damage its model hierarchy....
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-porsche-911-c...
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-porsche-911-c...
acey81 said:
Tune the S with PASM, PDCC, RWS and the upcoming aerokit slap som Cup2 265/325 on it and nothing south of a 991.2 GT3RS will touch it. Too bad you can't get the folding buckets in the S.
there's no point in buying an S, it's a waste of money in this situation as both remap to the same bhpDave Hedgehog said:
thelostboy said:
All sounds great, but this is par for the course for any turbo car.
The big question is whether you're willing to be the guinea pig here - the car has made the numbers, but for how long?
I'm not sure I'd throw away the warranty on such an expensive car. It comes down to that question of whether a dealer can see it has been mapped (or un-mapped for that matter).
Litchfield are about as respectable as it gets with regard to tuning, i personally wouldn't mod a car under warranty.The big question is whether you're willing to be the guinea pig here - the car has made the numbers, but for how long?
I'm not sure I'd throw away the warranty on such an expensive car. It comes down to that question of whether a dealer can see it has been mapped (or un-mapped for that matter).
I'd love this re-worded press release to have including how they approach testing of components and drivetrain. Providing an aftermarket warranty is offsetting risk, not a sign of you have faith in your product.
sagarich said:
"reduces emphasis on emission control to maximise performance"
Will this fail an emissions test come MOT time then?
Unlikely, because passing an MOT test for emissions is trivial compared to what Porsche has to go through in developing and homologating the car. Homologation testing is vastly more stringent and demanding.Will this fail an emissions test come MOT time then?
robsprocket said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
Actually looking at said graph, the "crossover" for power and torque doesn't seem to occur until 5200? That is a dramatic change to the characteristic of the engine, not one I'd probably fancy.
LOL, all bhp/torque curves cross at 5,252. You should do some research into how BHP and Torque are related.E38 said:
How much are Litchfield adding that it already produced but Porsche didn't want to damage its model hierarchy....
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-porsche-911-c...
This is a good point. Looking at estimated flywheel numbers throughout, both the Motor Trend dyno and the Litchfield dyno chart show the Carrera S knocking out something like 45 hp more than the Porsche brochure number, at around 485-487 hp. If the basic Carrera does the same then it's not a 380 hp car but a 425 hp car. https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-porsche-911-c...
In both cases getting it to 580 hp is therefore less of a leap than "+200 hp" headlines would suggest. Mind you, it's still non-trivial.
By many accounts the current BMW / Supra 40i engine is similarly being under-rated by the maker. Most independent tests seem to have that as 370 flywheel hp or thereabout straight out of the box.
untakenname said:
I also misread the graph at first, should use more contrasting colours.
200hp freed up from just a remap with no supporting mods needed is really poor form from Porsche imo as they are treating their customers as mugs.
Surely the detuned original affords much better longevity/reliability. Granted 200 is a lot though. 200hp freed up from just a remap with no supporting mods needed is really poor form from Porsche imo as they are treating their customers as mugs.
Just come from the forge article thinking £1.5k to get a TTRS to 500bhp sounds like not too bad a deal. Now circa. 200bhp for £1k!
Understandably different type of cars, different price points etc...but the point is modern day tuning seems to offer a lot of power for relatively not much money
Understandably different type of cars, different price points etc...but the point is modern day tuning seems to offer a lot of power for relatively not much money
Lowtimer said:
This is a good point. Looking at estimated flywheel numbers throughout, both the Motor Trend dyno and the Litchfield dyno chart show the Carrera S knocking out something like 45 hp more than the Porsche brochure number, at around 485-487 hp. If the basic Carrera does the same then it's not a 380 hp car but a 425 hp car.
In both cases getting it to 580 hp is therefore less of a leap than "+200 hp" headlines would suggest. Mind you, it's still non-trivial.
By many accounts the current BMW / Supra 40i engine is similarly being under-rated by the maker. Most independent tests seem to have that as 370 flywheel hp or thereabout straight out of the box.
Porsche don't rate the car on a wheel dyno you can't compare the made up crank numbers on wheel dyno to a bench dyno. In both cases getting it to 580 hp is therefore less of a leap than "+200 hp" headlines would suggest. Mind you, it's still non-trivial.
By many accounts the current BMW / Supra 40i engine is similarly being under-rated by the maker. Most independent tests seem to have that as 370 flywheel hp or thereabout straight out of the box.
Wills2 said:
Lowtimer said:
This is a good point. Looking at estimated flywheel numbers throughout, both the Motor Trend dyno and the Litchfield dyno chart show the Carrera S knocking out something like 45 hp more than the Porsche brochure number, at around 485-487 hp. If the basic Carrera does the same then it's not a 380 hp car but a 425 hp car.
In both cases getting it to 580 hp is therefore less of a leap than "+200 hp" headlines would suggest. Mind you, it's still non-trivial.
By many accounts the current BMW / Supra 40i engine is similarly being under-rated by the maker. Most independent tests seem to have that as 370 flywheel hp or thereabout straight out of the box.
Porsche don't rate the car on a wheel dyno you can't compare the made up crank numbers on wheel dyno to a bench dyno. In both cases getting it to 580 hp is therefore less of a leap than "+200 hp" headlines would suggest. Mind you, it's still non-trivial.
By many accounts the current BMW / Supra 40i engine is similarly being under-rated by the maker. Most independent tests seem to have that as 370 flywheel hp or thereabout straight out of the box.
RudeDog said:
Two Nissan related comments come to mind...
Almost every Skyline (R33 or R34) left the showroom with 280bhp but you'd be hard pushed to find one with less than 400bhp on the road. Will the same happen here?
Nissan did something with the 350z to prevent remaps or mods from impacting the performance of the vehicle. Didn't seem to matter what people did, it still reported the same power output. I think people found ways around it eventually but it required serious changes, not just a remap. Have Lichfield announced this mod too early and could Porsche do the same to throw a spanner in the works?
You refer to the gentleman's agreement between manufacturers to restrict power to 280ps (ON PAPER ONLY).Almost every Skyline (R33 or R34) left the showroom with 280bhp but you'd be hard pushed to find one with less than 400bhp on the road. Will the same happen here?
Nissan did something with the 350z to prevent remaps or mods from impacting the performance of the vehicle. Didn't seem to matter what people did, it still reported the same power output. I think people found ways around it eventually but it required serious changes, not just a remap. Have Lichfield announced this mod too early and could Porsche do the same to throw a spanner in the works?
All JDM cars with a quoted power of 276bhp have always had more in reality when run on 100ron fuel. Evos, STI's, Supra, GTR's, etc..
First hit from the interweb:
In order to prevent power/speed wars, the Japanese manufacturers agreed, informally, to stick to 280PS (276hp), having earlier agreed to a 112mph limit. So they advertised all their top end cars with 280PS and just changed the torque figures - and they were fibbing anyway, since many top end cars could be taken straight from the dealership onto a dyno and run 330hp+.
Looks like Porsche are being very conservative with their numbers on the C2S, and Litchfield have done a very good job of liberating many more horses for not much effort.
Interesting to see what sort of a warranty Litchfield will offer on the drivetrain, and if the long-term reliability is good. We know they’re not a company that just turns the boost up to 11 and throws it out of the door after all, they’ve a very good reputation to protect.
Interesting to see what sort of a warranty Litchfield will offer on the drivetrain, and if the long-term reliability is good. We know they’re not a company that just turns the boost up to 11 and throws it out of the door after all, they’ve a very good reputation to protect.
Porsche develop a very capable engine like a lot of other manufacturers, then for various reasons it gets mapped to produce a certain level of power.
The spec is the same but the car they sell needs to fit in a model range, it cant tread on the toes of the more expensive models and they cant downgrade the engine spec as it is turbocharged and produces 400 ish bhp as standard, whatever power level its running the engine internals will be forged and capable of handling more power than standard.
Most modern turbo engines seem to handle a hefty power increase, and also seem to usually develop more power than advertised, that rarely used to be the case but I guess thats partly marketing, test drive two cars back to back in the same market segment and one goes better than the other despite similar power figures ? Possibly because one has 15 percent extra than it says in the spec, so you buy that one, even without any gentlemens agreements .
I wouldn't say it makes the Turbo redundant by any means, as for some, only the Turbo will do and it has a different spec usually to the lesser models, wheels, badging, body trim and loads of small changes, plus it will come with more power than this, even remapped I would expect as the 991 Turbo had between 533 and 607 bhp, doubt any derivative of the 992 Turbo will make do with less than 600 bhp. Think the normal Turbo will have just over 600 and the S 640 based on what I read, also its a 3.8 litre engine so also has scope for a remap on that, if you are a bit unhinged.
Still, 580 bhp from a "standard" 911 is pretty compelling.
The spec is the same but the car they sell needs to fit in a model range, it cant tread on the toes of the more expensive models and they cant downgrade the engine spec as it is turbocharged and produces 400 ish bhp as standard, whatever power level its running the engine internals will be forged and capable of handling more power than standard.
Most modern turbo engines seem to handle a hefty power increase, and also seem to usually develop more power than advertised, that rarely used to be the case but I guess thats partly marketing, test drive two cars back to back in the same market segment and one goes better than the other despite similar power figures ? Possibly because one has 15 percent extra than it says in the spec, so you buy that one, even without any gentlemens agreements .
I wouldn't say it makes the Turbo redundant by any means, as for some, only the Turbo will do and it has a different spec usually to the lesser models, wheels, badging, body trim and loads of small changes, plus it will come with more power than this, even remapped I would expect as the 991 Turbo had between 533 and 607 bhp, doubt any derivative of the 992 Turbo will make do with less than 600 bhp. Think the normal Turbo will have just over 600 and the S 640 based on what I read, also its a 3.8 litre engine so also has scope for a remap on that, if you are a bit unhinged.
Still, 580 bhp from a "standard" 911 is pretty compelling.
WCZ said:
acey81 said:
Tune the S with PASM, PDCC, RWS and the upcoming aerokit slap som Cup2 265/325 on it and nothing south of a 991.2 GT3RS will touch it. Too bad you can't get the folding buckets in the S.
there's no point in buying an S, it's a waste of money in this situation as both remap to the same bhpGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff