End of petrol and hybrid
Discussion
98elise said:
Mouse Rat said:
This can only happen with Hydrogen EV's
The infastructure, cost, taxation and environmental impact of batteries is not sustainable for everybody.
Hydrogen?...The infastructure, cost, taxation and environmental impact of batteries is not sustainable for everybody.
Much less efficient
Much more expensive
Almost no infrastructure
Storage tanks have a limited life
Leaks out of everything
Needs to be pressurised to 10,000 psi
Needs batteries
Corrosive
Mirai used value has dropped from 60k to 13k in 2 years.
They took the cars back in Norway when all the filling stations closed after one of the last 2 blew up.
Hydrogen cars have already failed.
So if we are all going BEV we will need to generate a huge amount of electricity and be able to distribute it.
I suspect to generate enough electricity we will need around another 7 Nuclear Power stations on top of the planned upgrades to the power network.
The grid already is running at a high capacity at peak times.
So to achieve the aims there will be substantial changes and costs incurred .
It will be interesting to see what direction this takes.
Also bear in mind to plan and build a NPS takes around 20 years.
I suspect to generate enough electricity we will need around another 7 Nuclear Power stations on top of the planned upgrades to the power network.
The grid already is running at a high capacity at peak times.
So to achieve the aims there will be substantial changes and costs incurred .
It will be interesting to see what direction this takes.
Also bear in mind to plan and build a NPS takes around 20 years.
Lord Marylebone said:
Just heard this on the radio.
Wow.
So essentially begging for of the end of combustion engine motoring as we know it in only 15 years time.
That is quite something.
Not quite. End of fossil fuelled ic engines in cars. Hydrogen is a possibility, no mention of commercial and other applications like ships trains and tractors.Wow.
So essentially begging for of the end of combustion engine motoring as we know it in only 15 years time.
That is quite something.
Until something matches the range, price and size of our used 520d then we won’t be buying anything electric. The stopping to charge at some point and in some instances twice just isn’t practical.
However, we run two cars. The 5 which we’ve put 70k on so far and a second car that I tend to change a lot. Mostly sheds but they are used for the kids, dog, stuff to the tip and local stuff along with the odd 40 mile round trip to work. At the moment we have a Lexus rx300 and it’s previously been a focus estate, Audi allroad etc.... so this is something we could swap for an EV but again, it would have to be an estate and mostly available for shed money.
I’d love to change jobs and us be able to run one EV that did everything for us and looking at the way things have advanced that may be possible in 15 years time.
When we do all switch to EV I’d like to think that I keep a combustion engine vehicle as I doubt I’ll be able to let go. That along with a 2 stroke motorbike to stick it to the man
However, we run two cars. The 5 which we’ve put 70k on so far and a second car that I tend to change a lot. Mostly sheds but they are used for the kids, dog, stuff to the tip and local stuff along with the odd 40 mile round trip to work. At the moment we have a Lexus rx300 and it’s previously been a focus estate, Audi allroad etc.... so this is something we could swap for an EV but again, it would have to be an estate and mostly available for shed money.
I’d love to change jobs and us be able to run one EV that did everything for us and looking at the way things have advanced that may be possible in 15 years time.
When we do all switch to EV I’d like to think that I keep a combustion engine vehicle as I doubt I’ll be able to let go. That along with a 2 stroke motorbike to stick it to the man
Pooh said:
Hybrids are already becoming unnecessary as battery range increases, they are also complicated and expensive to make so they will disappear anyway. As for the batteries, I have done 60k miles in my Zoe and have not noticed any reduction in range so I think the battery life issue is exaggerated and if the batteries do degrade too much for a car they can be recycled or reused.
Re 60k miles in your Zoe. How old is the car? Battery life can be measured over time as well as miles. If you drive 30k a year thats different to a commuter or shopper doing just a couple of thousand miles pa and expecting their vehicle to last 15 years.As others have pointed out, do we have / will we have the facilities for mass EV ownership in say 5 years?
For all cars to be EV in just 15 years logically we would need (at least) 66% capacity in 10 years, especially given that, once there is a legal commitment to no ICE cars, then who would buy an ICE car a decade from now?
Given the obvious limitations on materials for batteries and the generating capacity....... and successive Government commitment to 'the environment' and 'safety'....... surely it would be logical for vehicles to have restricted performance. ie maximum speed and acceleration controlled by some 'Big Brother' GPS system?
Don't know if the Tesla fan boys would accept this but.........
It'll be interesting to see how quickly Fuel Stations die out once EV adoption really takes over. Say 50% of all vehicles are EV, then the economies of scale for the Petrol/Diesel industry will collapse, and simply price most fossil fueled vehicles off the road. Will be a shame to see petrol classics forced off the road, but may well be a possibility once demand for fuel drops significantly
Proof if it were needed that we are governed by idiots.
EV’s are a knee jerk reaction to a long term problem. Shifting the burning of fossil fuel from vehicles to power stations is not the answer. Refining, developing and re-engineering the ICE to run on low or zero carbon (synthetic?) fuels is the way forward.
In 20 years the outskirts of of our towns and cities will be populated by yards full of expired lead-acid batteries, and believe me that mountain will grow faster than we can excavate it. Still we can always ship them off to China as we do with a lot of our waste now. Until we get someone intelligent, forward thinking and with the strength of character to stand up to the naysayers then we’re stuck with this type of pandering.
EV’s are a knee jerk reaction to a long term problem. Shifting the burning of fossil fuel from vehicles to power stations is not the answer. Refining, developing and re-engineering the ICE to run on low or zero carbon (synthetic?) fuels is the way forward.
In 20 years the outskirts of of our towns and cities will be populated by yards full of expired lead-acid batteries, and believe me that mountain will grow faster than we can excavate it. Still we can always ship them off to China as we do with a lot of our waste now. Until we get someone intelligent, forward thinking and with the strength of character to stand up to the naysayers then we’re stuck with this type of pandering.
Baldchap said:
For the overwhelming majority of people doing the overwhelming majority or journeys, it's feasible right now.
London based thinking, of everyone drives around towns but the majority of people who do these journeys dont have private/off road parking to be able to charge the things. And that the batteries die/need replacement within years.Nevermind that we don't have the electrical grid to support it - at this exact moment were at 36/45MW of use. Live UK Elec Status
There's only 1 more power station being made at the moment (another at Hinkley) and that isn't enough to sustain converting all vehicles to electric. It takes a good 10+ years to build a new power station, especially a nuclear one because of unfounded public fear. Hinkley point C was first started being looked at in 2010 and won't be producing grid power until 2025!
It really isn't feasible for the majority, even though their "journey profile" fits.
I doubt there was goverment legislation to move people from walking to horse back.
I doubt there was much legislation to move people from horse to car.
Becuase those things were progress.
People haven't moved to EVs becuase its not better or progressive for most people.
So if the goverment are imposing this legislation in only 15years they better well invest in an infastructure to make this a progressives move.
I doubt there was much legislation to move people from horse to car.
Becuase those things were progress.
People haven't moved to EVs becuase its not better or progressive for most people.
So if the goverment are imposing this legislation in only 15years they better well invest in an infastructure to make this a progressives move.
I think the adoption curve will change dramatically once we resolve the infrastructure issue. A large problem in the UK is the amount of houses without parking (so no charging), very hard to see how they will resolve that. I think we'll see a change in approach in the next 5 years as alternatives become more viable - perhaps induction charging built into roads or in Norway they are trialling replacement batteries, so instead of making vehicles batteries go further, their approach is to make it easily replaceable - perhaps we'll see petrol stations become battery replacement stations.
I do think we'll see the classic car market increase significantly though for a period of time as people try and hold onto petrol.
I do think we'll see the classic car market increase significantly though for a period of time as people try and hold onto petrol.
Earl of Petrol said:
Proof if it were needed that we are governed by idiots.
EV’s are a knee jerk reaction to a long term problem. Shifting the burning of fossil fuel from vehicles to power stations is not the answer. Refining, developing and re-engineering the ICE to run on low or zero carbon (synthetic?) fuels is the way forward.
In 20 years the outskirts of of our towns and cities will be populated by yards full of expired lead-acid batteries, and believe me that mountain will grow faster than we can excavate it. Still we can always ship them off to China as we do with a lot of our waste now. Until we get someone intelligent, forward thinking and with the strength of character to stand up to the naysayers then we’re stuck with this type of pandering.
lolEV’s are a knee jerk reaction to a long term problem. Shifting the burning of fossil fuel from vehicles to power stations is not the answer. Refining, developing and re-engineering the ICE to run on low or zero carbon (synthetic?) fuels is the way forward.
In 20 years the outskirts of of our towns and cities will be populated by yards full of expired lead-acid batteries, and believe me that mountain will grow faster than we can excavate it. Still we can always ship them off to China as we do with a lot of our waste now. Until we get someone intelligent, forward thinking and with the strength of character to stand up to the naysayers then we’re stuck with this type of pandering.
Oh and wind/solar power is rapidly becoming the cheapest form of electricity...
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