RE: BMW R 18 takes aim at Harley
Discussion
citizensm1th said:
Change the seat ,rear mudguard and lower narrower handlebars and ditch the exhaust
https://www.bikeexif.com/bmw-r18-cruiser-motorcycl...
That's much better https://www.bikeexif.com/bmw-r18-cruiser-motorcycl...
(apart from the exhausts....)I still miss my softail Harley.....
If I got that right, it really has pushrods to operate 2 cams per cylinder, and air/oil cooling ?
Must have been tricky engineering involved to keep the mechanical noise down.
Some clean lines and details, but the customer will decide if he wants that custom.
The seating position looks like "mid-controls" on H-Ds, which I preferred when riding various H-Ds
as a mechanic for dealer and german H-D Motor Company,
mid-controls give better riding control compared to forward pegs,
although "feet first" would be more convenient on the looong haul.
We will see if this bike will bring some 1% Motorcycle Club members back from their H-Ds,
like in the 60s/70s when chopped R69 and /5 were the german steed of choice :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdvUk3haUcY
Dell´Orto , Hoske 2>4 exhaust, self-extended forks, and of course 2 headlamps,
which were highly illegal on bikes as they resembled "the light signature of a locomotive"...../heritagelesson
Must have been tricky engineering involved to keep the mechanical noise down.
Some clean lines and details, but the customer will decide if he wants that custom.
The seating position looks like "mid-controls" on H-Ds, which I preferred when riding various H-Ds
as a mechanic for dealer and german H-D Motor Company,
mid-controls give better riding control compared to forward pegs,
although "feet first" would be more convenient on the looong haul.
We will see if this bike will bring some 1% Motorcycle Club members back from their H-Ds,
like in the 60s/70s when chopped R69 and /5 were the german steed of choice :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdvUk3haUcY
Dell´Orto , Hoske 2>4 exhaust, self-extended forks, and of course 2 headlamps,
which were highly illegal on bikes as they resembled "the light signature of a locomotive"...../heritagelesson
Benni said:
The seating position looks like "mid-controls" on H-Ds, which I preferred when riding various H-Ds
as a mechanic for dealer and german H-D Motor Company,
mid-controls give better riding control compared to forward pegs,
Only if you have short legs.....as a mechanic for dealer and german H-D Motor Company,
mid-controls give better riding control compared to forward pegs,
When I bought my Dyna Superglide Custom back in 2007, I had forwards fitted before delivery as on the test ride on the standard mids, my knees were higher than my hips and I had chronic lower back ache within 10 mins....
The forwards were much more comfortable, and I didn't think there was any real loss of riding control.......given its a Harley anyway
I much preferred the foot plate and riding position of the Softail Slim I traded it in for 5 years later, just wished I done it earlier to have had more riding years with the Softail
Not my cup of tea at all!
I love bikes, but hate stupidly loud gutless 2 cylinder engines fitted to 2 wheeled tractor chassis.
For me a twin has to be a light screaming 2-stroke and a 4-stroke has to have 4 cylinders - but I'm sure this seems to be what people want just now, so good luck to BMW.
I love bikes, but hate stupidly loud gutless 2 cylinder engines fitted to 2 wheeled tractor chassis.
For me a twin has to be a light screaming 2-stroke and a 4-stroke has to have 4 cylinders - but I'm sure this seems to be what people want just now, so good luck to BMW.
jorders500 said:
The reason Harley sales have collapsed is that people have started to realise they are rubbish.
Get real, we've heard it too many times, when will it sink in that for many people it has to be a Harley, whether it's back patch bike club members or accountants going wild it's a Harley or nothing. I'm sorry but the majority of people want the real thing not this monstrosity from BMW.You're either in the market for a cruiser, where you will have loads of options, or you're in the market for a Harley, which means there is NO other option. Harley riders are a different breed - I don't really understand them, and to be honest, don't really care to. A couple of friends had them in the US, and I rode them there, and yeah, I kind of 'got it' when ridden in their home market. But over here? No, just no.
I hadn't ridden a Harley in about 15-20 years up until a couple of years ago. Bizarrely, the local HD dealership over here is also the Triumph (I have 2) and Ducati (3) dealership, and though usually they'll give me one or the other as a courtesy bike when I drop mine in for service, on this last particular occasion, all they had available was a HD 'Fat Boy'. He asked me would I ride it, knowing that us 'sport bike' riders would never touch one. I replied that even though I'm no fan, I do remember my experiences of them in the US, it wasn't that bad, so feck it, I don't care - I only need it to get back to the office.
Oh how wrong was I! This was a brand new bike (less than 1000 miles), and it was bloody awful! I hadn't even left the carpark of the dealership, and was in shock at how utterly cr@p the bike was. I couldn't believe how agricultural the entire thing was (and I know we do jokingly refer to them as 'tractors', but there was no joking this time!). I was actually angry at how bad it was, as it clearly demonstrated how lazy HD was in not bothering their backsides to improve anything on this bike in the last 50 years, and to me, it was a vivid demonstration that HD was UTTERLY taking the p1ss out of their customers and fanbase, by continuing to pump out such antiquated rubbish.
Put it this way, a Royal Enfield is still supposed to be regarded as an ancient platform, trading on its 'character' and budget build. But even one of them was better built and more refined than this utter garbage, and if HD was to die out - good riddance!
IF you really must get yourself a 'Murican cruiser - get an Indian, otherwise, you reap what you sow.
I hadn't ridden a Harley in about 15-20 years up until a couple of years ago. Bizarrely, the local HD dealership over here is also the Triumph (I have 2) and Ducati (3) dealership, and though usually they'll give me one or the other as a courtesy bike when I drop mine in for service, on this last particular occasion, all they had available was a HD 'Fat Boy'. He asked me would I ride it, knowing that us 'sport bike' riders would never touch one. I replied that even though I'm no fan, I do remember my experiences of them in the US, it wasn't that bad, so feck it, I don't care - I only need it to get back to the office.
Oh how wrong was I! This was a brand new bike (less than 1000 miles), and it was bloody awful! I hadn't even left the carpark of the dealership, and was in shock at how utterly cr@p the bike was. I couldn't believe how agricultural the entire thing was (and I know we do jokingly refer to them as 'tractors', but there was no joking this time!). I was actually angry at how bad it was, as it clearly demonstrated how lazy HD was in not bothering their backsides to improve anything on this bike in the last 50 years, and to me, it was a vivid demonstration that HD was UTTERLY taking the p1ss out of their customers and fanbase, by continuing to pump out such antiquated rubbish.
Put it this way, a Royal Enfield is still supposed to be regarded as an ancient platform, trading on its 'character' and budget build. But even one of them was better built and more refined than this utter garbage, and if HD was to die out - good riddance!
IF you really must get yourself a 'Murican cruiser - get an Indian, otherwise, you reap what you sow.
I've always been a fan of the often underrated Motorrad cruisers. My old man having had 2x R1200C's and even the ugly but brilliant R1200CL.
However, if I were BMW and the Quandt family I'd be trying my very best to move on from my Nazi past. Not building a modern day evocation motorcycle that makes you look just like an SS officer... 'Built in Berlin' accents just make it unapologetically cringeworthy too.
I'm seriously amazed this got to production without raising how damaging this could be to the BMW brand. As dramatic as it sounds, I find this so distasteful I just wouldn't consider another Motorrad product for quite some time.
However, if I were BMW and the Quandt family I'd be trying my very best to move on from my Nazi past. Not building a modern day evocation motorcycle that makes you look just like an SS officer... 'Built in Berlin' accents just make it unapologetically cringeworthy too.
I'm seriously amazed this got to production without raising how damaging this could be to the BMW brand. As dramatic as it sounds, I find this so distasteful I just wouldn't consider another Motorrad product for quite some time.
Best looking BMW for a long time, but I'll stick with 'mercan V-twins
The thing about the reducing Harley sales, virtually every sale of a big Indian is/was a sale taken from Harley. Not so much the Scouts and FTRs, but the Chiefs, Chieftains and now Challengers go head-to-head with Harley...and are surprisingly capable bikes. The BM won't prize me off my Indian(s), but its nice to see another decent retro-bike in the sector.
But I'm not sure if this really is a Harley competitor, at least not a competitor for the 'classic' heavyweights. I think the full-on cruiser/tourer options in the American style are limited with the cylinders in the way. The Indian/Harley heavyweight cruisers/tourers all have footboards rather than pegs, and having ridden thousands of miles with pegs and boards, I much prefer footboards now (although obviously not on a sports bike). That alone would put a lot of the 'heavyweight' brigade off. So in truth I don't think this is so much a Harley competitor but more just another player in the retro sector versus Bonnies and Enfields, and probably Scouts too.
The thing about the reducing Harley sales, virtually every sale of a big Indian is/was a sale taken from Harley. Not so much the Scouts and FTRs, but the Chiefs, Chieftains and now Challengers go head-to-head with Harley...and are surprisingly capable bikes. The BM won't prize me off my Indian(s), but its nice to see another decent retro-bike in the sector.
But I'm not sure if this really is a Harley competitor, at least not a competitor for the 'classic' heavyweights. I think the full-on cruiser/tourer options in the American style are limited with the cylinders in the way. The Indian/Harley heavyweight cruisers/tourers all have footboards rather than pegs, and having ridden thousands of miles with pegs and boards, I much prefer footboards now (although obviously not on a sports bike). That alone would put a lot of the 'heavyweight' brigade off. So in truth I don't think this is so much a Harley competitor but more just another player in the retro sector versus Bonnies and Enfields, and probably Scouts too.
Vocht said:
I've always been a fan of the often underrated Motorrad cruisers. My old man having had 2x R1200C's and even the ugly but brilliant R1200CL.
However, if I were BMW and the Quandt family I'd be trying my very best to move on from my Nazi past. Not building a modern day evocation motorcycle that makes you look just like an SS officer... 'Built in Berlin' accents just make it unapologetically cringeworthy too.
I'm seriously amazed this got to production without raising how damaging this could be to the BMW brand. As dramatic as it sounds, I find this so distasteful I just wouldn't consider another Motorrad product for quite some time.
How old are you?However, if I were BMW and the Quandt family I'd be trying my very best to move on from my Nazi past. Not building a modern day evocation motorcycle that makes you look just like an SS officer... 'Built in Berlin' accents just make it unapologetically cringeworthy too.
I'm seriously amazed this got to production without raising how damaging this could be to the BMW brand. As dramatic as it sounds, I find this so distasteful I just wouldn't consider another Motorrad product for quite some time.
Arsecati said:
Oh how wrong was I! This was a brand new bike (less than 1000 miles), and it was bloody awful! I hadn't even left the carpark of the dealership, and was in shock at how utterly cr@p the bike was. I couldn't believe how agricultural the entire thing was (and I know we do jokingly refer to them as 'tractors', but there was no joking this time!). I was actually angry at how bad it was, as it clearly demonstrated how lazy HD was in not bothering their backsides to improve anything on this bike in the last 50 years, and to me, it was a vivid demonstration that HD was UTTERLY taking the p1ss out of their customers and fanbase, by continuing to pump out such antiquated rubbish.
You're missing the point. HD continue to make what their customers want.....which isn't what you want.
Most HD customers simply don't want a modernised, updated bike....that's why they keep buying what HD keep making.
As mentioned HD make the V-Rod for those that want a modernised HD and they don't sell many of those in percentage terms compared to the air-cooled stuff.
aeropilot said:
You're missing the point.
HD continue to make what their customers want.....which isn't what you want.
Most HD customers simply don't want a modernised, updated bike....that's why they keep buying what HD keep making.
As mentioned HD make the V-Rod for those that want a modernised HD and they don't sell many of those in percentage terms compared to the air-cooled stuff.
a) Their customers are dying and will soon be all gone.HD continue to make what their customers want.....which isn't what you want.
Most HD customers simply don't want a modernised, updated bike....that's why they keep buying what HD keep making.
As mentioned HD make the V-Rod for those that want a modernised HD and they don't sell many of those in percentage terms compared to the air-cooled stuff.
b) Indian have proved that bikes can still look and sound like tractors, without actually having to ride like one.
c) I may not be target market for this bike, but as it's a premium priced product, I'd at least expect it to be built as premium priced product.
As I said, I rode a couple of them in America when I lived there back in the 90's, and yes, I reluctantly had to acknowledge that I 'got' them. But that was 20 odd years ago - there is simply no excuse for continuing to make a bike to 1990's manufacturing standards (which let's be honest here - were already still of a standard from the 70's).
Arsecati said:
...there is simply no excuse for continuing to make a bike to 1990's manufacturing standards (which let's be honest here - were already still of a standard from the 70's).
Yeah but that didn't stop Land Rover and the Defender......and then look at the comments when they do bring things up-to-date.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
M
As someone who likes cars and not bikes, I find it frustrating that bikes don't seem to be victims of the same emissions and safety constrains that recent car designs have been blighted with.
If this bike was a car, it would have a 300cc electric hybrid electric turbo motor and weigh about a tonne. Actually, if this bike was a car, it would be banned instantly as it's so very dangerous.
For some reason, bikes get a free pass.
If this bike was a car, it would have a 300cc electric hybrid electric turbo motor and weigh about a tonne. Actually, if this bike was a car, it would be banned instantly as it's so very dangerous.
For some reason, bikes get a free pass.
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