Automotive Fakery
Discussion
Yep, it's been going on forever. It's just styling. I'll bet cars have had fake slats on them since the 1930s.
For those who don't like fake exhausts, here's a Ferrari 208 Turbo. It has a single turbo. It doesn't need 4 exhausts. Do I think it would look better or be a more honest car with just one exhaust pipe? Not a chance.
When you see a 930 Turbo with exhausts either side, it's the same thing too. Only one is an exhaust, the other, I believe serves only as an exit for the wastegate.
Here's the Alfa GTV6 3.0, with a bigger bonnet to clear the downdraught carbs and a huge NACA duct on the front of the bulge... that is blocked off. Its function, because it does have a function, is to break up the large slab of bonnet that would otherwise be the front of the bulge. It's there to make the car look better. And I think it works.
Same with the deeper front airdam compared with a 2.5. It's deeper for a good reason, but all those ducts and slats in it? Blocked off. They go nowhere. Again, they have a purpose, and that is to break up what might otherwise be an unsightly big flat slab of bodywork.
I don't see the reason for the hate against fakery, often directed at things like Audi's S-line. They make the car look more interesting. If the buyer wants a better looking car, great. I'll bet much of the bits when fitted to the actual performance models aren't needed either. They're just there to make it look like the performance model because who wants their RS-6 to look like a base TDi? OK, actually I know some do
I'm not actually sure who the real showoffs are here: The ones who buy base engined cars but spec up the bodywork to make the car look more expensive than it is, or the ones who think that those who buy base engined cars should have to settle for the dull, boring exterior trim so that everyone knows they're driving a 1.6 diesel econobox and only the expensive, fast versions stand out from the crowd.
I don't get it. If you can buy a car that looks dull and basic, or buy the same car that looks better and more interesting, why choose option A?
For those who don't like fake exhausts, here's a Ferrari 208 Turbo. It has a single turbo. It doesn't need 4 exhausts. Do I think it would look better or be a more honest car with just one exhaust pipe? Not a chance.
When you see a 930 Turbo with exhausts either side, it's the same thing too. Only one is an exhaust, the other, I believe serves only as an exit for the wastegate.
Here's the Alfa GTV6 3.0, with a bigger bonnet to clear the downdraught carbs and a huge NACA duct on the front of the bulge... that is blocked off. Its function, because it does have a function, is to break up the large slab of bonnet that would otherwise be the front of the bulge. It's there to make the car look better. And I think it works.
Same with the deeper front airdam compared with a 2.5. It's deeper for a good reason, but all those ducts and slats in it? Blocked off. They go nowhere. Again, they have a purpose, and that is to break up what might otherwise be an unsightly big flat slab of bodywork.
I don't see the reason for the hate against fakery, often directed at things like Audi's S-line. They make the car look more interesting. If the buyer wants a better looking car, great. I'll bet much of the bits when fitted to the actual performance models aren't needed either. They're just there to make it look like the performance model because who wants their RS-6 to look like a base TDi? OK, actually I know some do
I'm not actually sure who the real showoffs are here: The ones who buy base engined cars but spec up the bodywork to make the car look more expensive than it is, or the ones who think that those who buy base engined cars should have to settle for the dull, boring exterior trim so that everyone knows they're driving a 1.6 diesel econobox and only the expensive, fast versions stand out from the crowd.
I don't get it. If you can buy a car that looks dull and basic, or buy the same car that looks better and more interesting, why choose option A?
Edited by kiseca on Wednesday 16th June 15:21
jamieduff1981 said:
With regards to "fake" vents, quite a number of them, especially on front wings above the skirts, are not vents at all but sharp edges to give clean separation for boundary layer control. People who know a lot less than they think they know will decree it as fakery, but they serve a fully functioning purpose - only that purpose isn't what the Dunning-Kruger-afflicted self-professed expert assumes it's there to mimic.
I’ve no idea what this means, please explain thewarlock said:
jamieduff1981 said:
GroundZero said:
More to add to the list of fakery and silliness is the electronic handbrake when a manual handbrake was always sufficient, engine stop-start 'technology', rev-hang on manual gearboxes, push-button engine start along with de-pressing of clutch before push-button engine start can activate, keyless entry etc.
OK rant now fully out of my system, over to you guys
I'll go back to shouting at clouds for the rest of the day!
Clutch to start is because people are morons and crank the engine in gear and shunt walls or other parked cars etc.OK rant now fully out of my system, over to you guys
I'll go back to shouting at clouds for the rest of the day!
It's 15 years old, with a manual gearbox, 2WD, no turbos, a viscous LSD, a simple TC system that gets turned off every time I get in the car, and very few other mod cons.
I don't think the clutch to start thing is particularly new.
cheesesliceking said:
jamieduff1981 said:
With regards to "fake" vents, quite a number of them, especially on front wings above the skirts, are not vents at all but sharp edges to give clean separation for boundary layer control. People who know a lot less than they think they know will decree it as fakery, but they serve a fully functioning purpose - only that purpose isn't what the Dunning-Kruger-afflicted self-professed expert assumes it's there to mimic.
I’ve no idea what this means, please explain For instance, the side vents on a current shape Range Rover. If you study them, you'll see they're actually part of the door and serve no purpose apart from making the door appear less of a slab.
Is it a good design that disguises an unwanted feature, or a bad design that has the feature in the first place?
kiseca said:
Yep, it's been going on forever. It's just styling. I'll bet cars have had fake slats on them since the 1930s.
For those who don't like fake exhausts, here's a Ferrari 208 Turbo. It has a single turbo. It doesn't need 4 exhausts. Do I think it would look better or be a more honest car with just one exhaust pipe? Not a chance.
When you see a 930 Turbo with exhausts either side, it's the same thing too. Only one is an exhaust, the other, I believe serves only as an exit for the wastegate.
That's not what the OP was railing against though. For those who don't like fake exhausts, here's a Ferrari 208 Turbo. It has a single turbo. It doesn't need 4 exhausts. Do I think it would look better or be a more honest car with just one exhaust pipe? Not a chance.
When you see a 930 Turbo with exhausts either side, it's the same thing too. Only one is an exhaust, the other, I believe serves only as an exit for the wastegate.
You can argue that that 208 doesn't need 4 exhausts but they *are* exhausts. It's not like say Audi
cheesesliceking said:
jamieduff1981 said:
With regards to "fake" vents, quite a number of them, especially on front wings above the skirts, are not vents at all but sharp edges to give clean separation for boundary layer control. People who know a lot less than they think they know will decree it as fakery, but they serve a fully functioning purpose - only that purpose isn't what the Dunning-Kruger-afflicted self-professed expert assumes it's there to mimic.
I’ve no idea what this means, please explain A modern example might be the popularity of creases and ridges in bonnets to try hide the bulk caused by the legislation that requires greater underbonnet clearance over hard points.
Surface changes or creases in side panels are often there to add strength / reduce flexibility of the panel. Instead of just putting the crease in the middle of nowhere to stop the door from wobbling, it will tend to lead to something, like perhaps a fake vent on the wing. So the crease is needed, and the vent is there to make the crease look less crap / lost.
thewarlock said:
Fastdruid said:
That's not what the OP was railing against though.
You can argue that that 208 doesn't need 4 exhausts but they *are* exhausts. It's not like say Audi
I agree it looks a bit silly, but do people really not buy a car they otherwise like, because of something like this?You can argue that that 208 doesn't need 4 exhausts but they *are* exhausts. It's not like say Audi
I'm older than the OP and the big fake on cars of the seventies was the good old power bulge bonnet. Think of the MK1 Capri versus facelift. Yes I fitted one to my Mk1 and thought it looked the dogs dangly bits.
Also this was a time of plastic wheel covers to make steel wheels look like alloys.
Also this was a time of plastic wheel covers to make steel wheels look like alloys.
I have the ''star wars'' sound on my Taycan, which is apparently a recording of the motors, transmission and LSD played back louder. It's childish but fun when you give it some. Mostly I leave it off though. In sport plus the car sits so low to the ground and suspension is rock hard that it naturally feels fast but in normal mode it is so eerily quiet and comfortable Mrs fblm prefers the sound on to stop her speeding!
Cold said:
cheesesliceking said:
jamieduff1981 said:
With regards to "fake" vents, quite a number of them, especially on front wings above the skirts, are not vents at all but sharp edges to give clean separation for boundary layer control. People who know a lot less than they think they know will decree it as fakery, but they serve a fully functioning purpose - only that purpose isn't what the Dunning-Kruger-afflicted self-professed expert assumes it's there to mimic.
I’ve no idea what this means, please explain For instance, the side vents on a current shape Range Rover. If you study them, you'll see they're actually part of the door and serve no purpose apart from making the door appear less of a slab.
Is it a good design that disguises an unwanted feature, or a bad design that has the feature in the first place?
Aerodynamics on e.g. aeroplanes are a bit different from cars and the presence of the ground and spinning wheels does things which end rendering more aerospace wisdom ineffective. Most know that in either case you want flow to separate as cleanly as possible and with as little energy as possible - but how to achieve that in cars can be a bit counterintuitive sometimes.
Sometimes little "fake" looking blanked vents on the front wings behind the wheels, or on the roof above the back windscreen or similar are there not to vent anything but to cause flow to break away cleanly rather than swirl and eddy down the surface of the car. It's not that the car will suddenly fly if you remove them, but the drag coefficient will go up a bit.
ajprice said:
Today I learned there was a Ferrari 208. It happened when I read these posts about a 208 with 4 exhausts and scrolled up looking for pictures of a Peugeot .
Honestly never heard of a Ferrari 208 before. Ferrari 308 and 328, yes of course I knew about those. 208, Peugeot.
Yeah, it was a tax thing. Something like engines larger than 2.0L meant to had to pay double the VAT or something like that? .Honestly never heard of a Ferrari 208 before. Ferrari 308 and 328, yes of course I knew about those. 208, Peugeot.
Someone will correct me, but it was something along those lines.
In Italy, I should add. Don't know if they sold them outside of Italy?
ajprice said:
Today I learned there was a Ferrari 208. It happened when I read these posts about a 208 with 4 exhausts and scrolled up looking for pictures of a Peugeot .
Honestly never heard of a Ferrari 208 before. Ferrari 308 and 328, yes of course I knew about those. 208, Peugeot.
.Honestly never heard of a Ferrari 208 before. Ferrari 308 and 328, yes of course I knew about those. 208, Peugeot.
I don't think it was popular, or had a point, in any markets outside Italy where there was a punitive tax law on cars above 2 litres. From what I've read, it's the 308 version that you would least want to have. Still gorgeous though!
HealeyV8 said:
I'm older than the OP and the big fake on cars of the seventies was the good old power bulge bonnet. Think of the MK1 Capri versus facelift. Yes I fitted one to my Mk1 and thought it looked the dogs dangly bits.
Also this was a time of plastic wheel covers to make steel wheels look like alloys.
To be fair , the Capri did have a range of engines from 1.3 to 3 litre. I assumed the bulge was to save costs making different parts and the 1.3 buyer wasn’t going to complain.Also this was a time of plastic wheel covers to make steel wheels look like alloys.
emperorburger said:
Is that why vinyl roofs used to be so popular? I grew up in the 70's where they were everywhere. I just assumed the vinyl was there to hide really s
t welds and seams.But people actually thought their cars looked liked convertibles?? That is a truly scary thought.
But then again, the pop & fart brigade probably thing they are impressing the world and are completely unaware that anyone other than 8 year old boys think they are utter throbbers.
This will no doubt rile a lot of people...but...is it any worse/ or better than exhaust sounds through the speakers?
https://www.sound-booster.com/
Basically a speaker that you fit inline with your exhaust, that amplifies/ changes the sound made through the pipes.
https://www.sound-booster.com/
Basically a speaker that you fit inline with your exhaust, that amplifies/ changes the sound made through the pipes.
kiseca said:
Yep, it's been going on forever. It's just styling. I'll bet cars have had fake slats on them since the 1930s.
I give you the 1909 Stanley Steamer. A steam car doesn't need cooling vents on its bonnet, and if you look closely you'll see they're not actually vents, just bumps painted to look like vents.
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