RE: Living with an Enyaq | PH Footnote

[TooLateForAName]

Trackdayer said:

Am I reading that right? £7 to add 60 miles worth of range in an EV?

That can't be right???

60 miles worth of range in a modern diesel costs £1.50 at the services???

Edited by Trackdayer on Saturday 3rd July 08:33

Which car does 60 miles/litre?

[biggbn]

bearman68 said:

Trackdayer said:

My bad. Morning maths

Still, why are they charging so much for electricity? EVs are supposed to be cheap to run?

Because they can. Recent articles in the press and on the net have been moaning about the relative cost of electricity and fossil fuels. No point going electric if there's no financial benefit, and there's lots of disincentives with regard to range, and hassle, and general lack of infrastructure.

I think that the government should start taking petrol pumps away to incentivise EV's. (At least that's what the Welsh Assembly would do), as that would give everyone range anxiety, and level up the playing field a bit.

There surely is a point other than cost. Refinement, low maintenance, low emissions being three?

I think that's a rather lovely Skoda!

Edited by biggbn on Saturday 3rd July 13:55

[Notanotherturbo]

Trackdayer said:

Am I reading that right? £7 to add 60 miles worth of range in an EV?

That can't be right???

60 miles worth of range in a modern diesel costs £1.50 at the services???

Edited by Trackdayer on Saturday 3rd July 08:33

What diesel do you drive that can do 60 miles on less than a 1/4 gallon of diesel? .

[LTEcactus]

MrC986 said:

The battery “deg” appears to be no where near what people are fearing I understand, if you leave the battery in the sweet spot of it’s capacity during most of its life. People who have owned fully electric cars for a good few years report negligible loss of battery capacity, and that is from early battery tech whereas the current tech has advanced substantially in the last 3 years, and continues to.

For most people a range of circa 300 miles is more than enough and once you get used to the likes of Zapmap, plus the fast food operators like McDonalds and Burger King installing super fast charging points (& many of the super markets), the availability of public charging points will improve significantly over the next couple of years. The Govt is implementing a strategy where all new houses will have to have charging points installed as part of the construction process.

I agree with a number of other posts that the review of the car has missed the point about the car itself....come on guys, please give a balanced view of the car.

Which isn't much use if you live in an old terraced house with on street parking!
I don't see EVs really catching on, you'd need charging points on every street corner and at every parking space for them to be viable for everyone.

My local Tesco only has 4 charging points for a 500 space car park.

My diesel does 65mpg which means I don't have to fill up very often and the tax is only £30. I don't see my self driving and EV for a very long time.

[bearman68]

Surely the jury is out on maintenance....

I work in the trade.
Probably about 10% of my work is engine and gearbox work.
Suspension work - I can see that being more with an EV.
Electrical work - Now that's going to be significantly less with an EV - Oh! Hang on!.
Body work - about the same.

I think the balance of work will change, and EV's will be more complex, and more difficult to repair, resulting in higher repair costs, rather than lower ones.
And that's before you even talk about battery degradation.

TL:DR - Used EV's are going to have higher maintenance costs than used ICE.

[unpc]

LTEcactus said:

I don't see EVs really catching on, you'd need charging points on every street corner and at every parking space for them to be viable for everyone.

Quoted for posterity

[Gez79]

I’ll miss the combustion engine when it goes. If BEV replace it then the government aren’t going to just take a hit on all the tax they will then lose from fuel tax, it will be loaded onto the BEV ownership experience somewhere, so in medium term electric cars are going to be just as expensive as fossil fuel cars to run.

I’ve also read that although electric cars have the obvious savings with regards to servicing, the large weight increase over their petrol equivalent means their consumption of brakes and tyres is quite a bit higher than petrol cars.

I just can’t see electric cars being anything other than a stop gap until some one comes up with a better idea. The very expensive problems with the lack of infrastructure and the millions of people who can’t charge at home just seem too insurmountable to be solved in the next 10 years. Not to mention HGVs, logistics and people who drive high mileages for work.

Just my opinion, and there are plenty of people for whom electric cars slot straight into their lifestyle and (currently - no pun intended) enjoy cheaper running costs if not a cheaper purchase price. But for myself and countless others, electric cars in their current, or slightly improved form, are either impractical, compromised or just impossible. Not to mention as a product they hold little desire or pleasure from driving them other than some initial straight line acceleration, unless you have 100k to drop on a Taycan.

[SWoll]

Earthdweller said:

Cost effective is a moot point when a basic Enyak costs £33k rising upto £45k before options

And that’s one of the cheapest EV’s

Last week I did 1100 miles through 4 countries in my diesel Satan mobile, which is fully paid for, it cost me around £110 and 10 minutes in total for fuelling

Ignoring the purchase cost of the vehicle then yes EV’s can be very cost effective, and work in certain situations very well, but I’d rather pay £10/100 miles and not be paying £xxx per month for the privilege of cheaper fuel

Horses for courses I suppose

You are aware that used EV's exist?

And the Enyak isn't one of the cheapest EV's BTW, any number of models from VW, Mini, Honda, Peugeot, MG, Fiat, Citroen, Vauxhall that are £5-10k less brand new than a base model Enyak.

Gez79 said:

I’ve also read that although electric cars have the obvious savings with regards to servicing, the large weight increase over their petrol equivalent means their consumption of brakes and tyres is quite a bit higher than petrol cars.

I just can’t see electric cars being anything other than a stop gap until some one comes up with a better idea. The very expensive problems with the lack of infrastructure and the millions of people who can’t charge at home just seem too insurmountable to be solved in the next 10 years. Not to mention HGVs, logistics and people who drive high mileages for work.

They're better on tyres and brakes than ICE due to linear power delivery and regenerative braking.

The charging problem you suggest doesn't need solving in the next 10 years. Used ICE cars and Hybrids will be around for a lot longer than that.

Edited by SWoll on Saturday 3rd July 14:45

[stanglish]

SWoll said:

text

Edited by SWoll on Saturday 3rd July 14:45

Do you have a reference for them being better on tyres?
Most road car tyres are not laterally limited, (edit: meant laterally OR especially longitudinally) when regular folks are driving. Laterally an EV will load them more due to the weight even with the lower CoG. I really cannot believe them being better on tyres is thing but I do know they often need different and actually more expensive ones. Brakes is a different matter and plenty of taxi drivers will back this up!

Also imagine you love this Skoda and you need something broadly similar, but you're on a budget and need to shop used. Please suggest something for those people because I honestly don't think a good option exists in the same way they most certainly do for ICE.

This topic gets so divisive but both sides come out with some questionable statements to say the least.

Edited by stanglish on Saturday 3rd July 15:03

[MightyBadger]

4Q said:

My diesel FFRR costs around £10 to do 60 miles or nearly £14 if I fill up at the motorway services. My Aston DBS costs around £20-30 depending how hard I’m driving it.

My electric Kona costs me around .75p to charge up at home to do 60 miles. What point are you trying to make?

Quiet a big difference in cost between your 75p fill up at home and the public £7 for the same milage, what a mark up lol.

[Earthdweller]

SWoll said:

Earthdweller said:

Cost effective is a moot point when a basic Enyak costs £33k rising upto £45k before options

And that’s one of the cheapest EV’s

Last week I did 1100 miles through 4 countries in my diesel Satan mobile, which is fully paid for, it cost me around £110 and 10 minutes in total for fuelling

Ignoring the purchase cost of the vehicle then yes EV’s can be very cost effective, and work in certain situations very well, but I’d rather pay £10/100 miles and not be paying £xxx per month for the privilege of cheaper fuel

Horses for courses I suppose

You are aware that used EV's exist?

And the Enyak isn't one of the cheapest EV's BTW, any number of models from VW, Mini, Honda, Peugeot, MG, Fiat, Citroen, Vauxhall that are £5-10k less brand new than a base model Enyak.

Gez79 said:

I’ve also read that although electric cars have the obvious savings with regards to servicing, the large weight increase over their petrol equivalent means their consumption of brakes and tyres is quite a bit higher than petrol cars.

I just can’t see electric cars being anything other than a stop gap until some one comes up with a better idea. The very expensive problems with the lack of infrastructure and the millions of people who can’t charge at home just seem too insurmountable to be solved in the next 10 years. Not to mention HGVs, logistics and people who drive high mileages for work.

They're better on tyres and brakes than ICE due to linear power delivery and regenerative braking.

The charging problem you suggest doesn't need solving in the next 10 years. Used ICE cars and Hybrids will be around for a lot longer than that.

Edited by SWoll on Saturday 3rd July 14:45

Really there’s used ones .. wow

I’m sorry but a Honda E won’t carry five, a couple of dogs and drag an Ifor Williams trailer or do the kind of journey I did last week and regularly do

Ev’s are good for some all the time, for a few part of the time and for others they don’t work

Personally I’m not going to shell out £25k+ for something that doesn’t fit my needs and my point was that my diesel 4x4 is far cheaper for me to run than buying a “new” EV to replace it. It’s very easy to say it costs x per mile to run and completely ignore the cost of funding it

[chris116]

nuttywobbler said:

I disagree with the author about the looks: I think this looks far nicer than the id4, both inside and out.

I thought the same after watching Johnny Smith's review recently.

[Pob17]

You summed up why I won’t buy another Skoda early on… stupid, hateful touchscreen. The one in my Octavia drives me insane. Every. Single. Day.

[croyde]

Piginapoke said:

Trackdayer said:

Am I reading that right? £7 to add 60 miles worth of range in an EV?

That can't be right???

60 miles worth of range in a modern diesel costs £1.50 at the services???

Edited by Trackdayer on Saturday 3rd July 08:33

Yep, that's right. You are fleeced by public charging.

I was going to say this. £7 would get me 60 miles in my petrol car on a motorway.

[HTP99]

Piginapoke said:

I tet drove an ID4 and was very disappointed. The interior was very cheap, the tech already seemed 3 years out of date and above 50 it was woefully slow.

That makes absolutely no sense, are you saying when you get above 50 you actually start slowing down?!

[Court_S]

Thing I took from this was that HVAC controls have no place in a bloody screen rather than as buttons. Most Luke live without a radio but not being able to change the temperature on a hot / cold day would cheese me off.

It’s also bloody expensive. EV’s have a fair way to go yet before coming a popular choice for your average household.

[Sheepshanks]

bearman68 said:

Surely the jury is out on maintenance....

I work in the trade.
Probably about 10% of my work is engine and gearbox work.
Suspension work - I can see that being more with an EV.
Electrical work - Now that's going to be significantly less with an EV - Oh! Hang on!.
Body work - about the same.

I think the balance of work will change, and EV's will be more complex, and more difficult to repair, resulting in higher repair costs, rather than lower ones.
And that's before you even talk about battery degradation.

TL:DR - Used EV's are going to have higher maintenance costs than used ICE.

With them using regen braking these cars would really benefit from 'proper' brake servicing - dismantle and clean - annually. But few will want to pay for that and at the moment garages prefer to get the profit from selling pads & discs, as well as the labour charge.

[big_rob_sydney]

ChrisCh86 said:

big_rob_sydney said:

One point that hasn't come out in the comments yet... what about people who have solar + batteries at home? Running costs for this are practically zero. Ask yourself how much it will cost to run an ICE and maintain the engine side of the vehicle over, say, 3-4 years (I don't even know, what is the average lease period these days?).

The EV cost benefits far outweigh ICE. It's not even close if you set up your home in the most efficient way possible.

And I had to laugh at a previous post about a "distress purchase" in regards to battery. What would we call filling up an ICE? That too is a distress purchase; if you don't fill it, you don't go anywhere either... At least with an EV you will never have to go to a petrol station again, and can even get your "fuel" for free; with the right feed-in tariff, you might even get paid for the pleasure..

Because the amount of power that you can generate at home is laughable compared to the capacity of the battery - it's going to take you a very long time to fill from empty using solar power - even if you live in Sydney...

Agree on the running costs bit - but there will still be things that fail (just a lot less as the car is less complex).

You can generate enough power during sunlight hours, to cover your entire energy usage. I guess th ecaveat is if you have multiple BEV's, that may not apply for you, unless you have a lot of PV panels.

That said, dont forget also that if you do need more power, you still get it from the grid, so you will never run out. Your charging will be as fast as whatever home charging system installed offers. If you only charge with a 3 pin, then yes, it will be slow. If you have a home charger, it will be considerably faster.

But I think you missed the point around being connected to the grid. If you need it, it's there. And your charge speed is fine.

Another point though; when you set out on a journey, with home charging, your car is ALWAYS "full."

[hammo19]

Looking forward to offering my driveway and charging point (when it’s installed) to travellers undercutting the public charging bandits,

[anonymous-user]

hammo19 said:

Looking forward to offering my driveway and charging point (when it’s installed) to travellers undercutting the public charging bandits,

This ^^^ actually is going to be a thing, or more accurately, the concept of "charge competition" will become a thing. Today, the lack of chargers means the providers of those chargers can charge (sic) what-ever they want for them, hence the silly 45 pence/kWh costs. BUT, at some point, the charging network matures, and suddenly, there will be competition, just like their is with petrol stations. Nobody fills up at a motorway services and pays 20% more per litre, if they don't need too, and the same will be true for chargers.


And unlike petrol stations, the fact charging takes time also brings another interesting angle, in that if you can get people to hook to your chargers, you can actually sell that 'lecy at a LOSS, if during the time they are waiting, you manage to extract other monies from them for other services. From a cup of coffee, to a full weekly shop, charging will be sold as part of a package. Again, this is nothing new, with petrol stations making as much money from there shop as they do the pumps, but thanks to the slower charger rate, the scope for this is even greater!