Timing belt failure just out of warranty

[tim0409]

Bobton125 said:

Limpet said:

A claim against a private seller for a mechanical failure on a 150,000 mile car would surely be laughed out of court. If true, I actually feel sorry for the seller.

This is why the likes of webuyanycar are doing so well.

Well it absolutely wasn’t laughed out of court.

I won on the grounds of item not as described - per ad it said it was in good running order. When I bought it, it wasn’t.

Caveat emptor is just myth!
Obviously this came to a surprise with me also, from reading all the advice online about private sellers I thought my chances were very slim. You don’t have as many right as from a dealer but you do still have some rights.

I feel sorry for the seller too in a way, he didn’t mean to sell a dud car but one of us was going to be out of pocket by 3k here so i would rather that be him!

Caveat Emptor isn’t a myth, it’s a well established principle. You won your case because the seller misrepresented the car in the advert, which is the point I made in my original post.

I do have an unused law degree from twenty years ago and distinctly remember this being covered, and nothing I have read since contradicts it. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 does not apply to private vehicle sales.

Edited by tim0409 on Wednesday 10th August 19:47

[Baldchap]

Matt_E_Mulsion said:

Has it actually been diagnosed as a failed timing belt, because it's distinctly sounds more like the auxiliary belt from what you have described.

This

[Canon_Fodder]

Any news OP?

[Mr Whippy]

piddy44 said:

tim0409 said:

Caveat Emptor isn’t a myth, it’s a well established principle. You won your case because the seller misrepresented the car in the advert, which is the point I made in my original post.

I do have an unused law degree from twenty years ago and distinctly remember this being covered, and nothing I have read since contradicts it.

Exactly. I suspect the seller in that private sale case was being too reliant on Caveat Emptor & failed to make an appropriate defence. A car advertised as being in great running order that goes pop the following day might have been in great running order at the time of sale & the buyer has simply been unlucky due to a sudden failure, OR it hasn't & the seller knew this & sold it with that knowledge.

How would the seller know?

And if they did, how would they know it’d not fail on a test drive, or not sell that day and fail the next while they moved it off their drive, or went to top up with fuel, etc…

It could last 20k miles or 2 miles.

A car in ‘good running order’ is in good running order until it fails.

If you’re covering a failure the next day, then how about 2 days?
A week?
A month?

At what point does coincidence subside away into the new buyer’s bad luck?


It’s utterly stupid to say “good working order” is inferring it won’t fail the next day.
A brand new car could fail after a week, but a warranty is provided for new cars, hence the price!

[littleruss]

Timing belt tensioner failed. Belt intact but loose. They are running all the tests on the engine tomorrow to find out whether there is damage there.

Anyone able to guide me on whether this is unreasonable on a 50k miles, 3 year old car, or any known issues with this (1.6 diesel).

Really, really annoyed that if anyone from the workshop had been willing to take a brief look when I took it in, this wouldn't have happened.

[BlindedByTheLights]

Having dealt with Audi in the past, you are likely to be fobbed off and on your own unless you become the biggest pain in the backside possible to Audi HQ.

[stevemcs]

littleruss said:

Timing belt tensioner failed. Belt intact but loose. They are running all the tests on the engine tomorrow to find out whether there is damage there.

Anyone able to guide me on whether this is unreasonable on a 50k miles, 3 year old car, or any known issues with this (1.6 diesel).

Really, really annoyed that if anyone from the workshop had been willing to take a brief look when I took it in, this wouldn't have happened.

It’s not a 5 minute job to check, would you have been prepared to leave it there for a week until they had chance too look ?

I very much doubt it’s got away with no damage, however the cheapest way forward would be to time it up, stick a new belt, pump and tensioner on it, turn it over by hand, if it turns over then start it up and see what happens, I would expect Audi to do it for free as the belt should have lasted longer irrespective of warranty,

Ford were quite good when they had issues with the 1.5 and also the 1.0, vow group quite frankly are rubbish.

[Sheepshanks]

Numpty with honours said:

A warranty cannot displace your rights under the sale of goods and service act. It is a reasonable expectation that a 3 years old car with 50,000 miles should not have the drive belt fail

If it is a major repair, you need to be aware of your rights and that taking the matter to the County Court using the small claims procedure is relatively straight forward

If you come across resistance you should prepare draft proceedings ( Claim Form N1 ) and advise that unless you reach agreement you will put the matter into court - always be seen as reasonable a fair-minded but firm

Hmmm…it’s a bit of a nuclear option threatening court action as it’s by no means a slam-dunk.

CRA doesn’t, as some people think, give you a 6yr warranty - it does say an item (the car as a whole) should last a reasonable length of time but it doesn’t say that’s without requiring any repairs along the way,

Your other issue with CRA is you need to give whoever supplied the vehicle the chance to repair it, and then take action against them - you can’t sue Audi. If the car is at the supplying dealer then that’s easy - if isn’t then it gets complicated,

[W201_190e]

littleruss said:

Timing belt tensioner failed. Belt intact but loose. They are running all the tests on the engine tomorrow to find out whether there is damage there.

Anyone able to guide me on whether this is unreasonable on a 50k miles, 3 year old car, or any known issues with this (1.6 diesel).

Really, really annoyed that if anyone from the workshop had been willing to take a brief look when I took it in, this wouldn't have happened.

It is reasonable that they could not have looked at it there and then. I know from the other side of the desk that “quick looks” are usually the polar opposite. What they should have offered is for you to leave it with them so they can have a look within 24 hours, and perhaps offered you a courtesy car if one were available. Also in my years in the trade I’ve never seen a red EML. Some cars have a red STOP symbol, never actually seen one illuminated though.

I would like to think Audi would help you out.

[James6112]

stevemcs said:

We have seen a couple where the water pump has failed and stripped the teeth off the belt long before it was due a belt change, its just another poor quality VAG product

A weird statement

[105.4]

littleruss said:

Official belt change is 120k / 5 years according to the dealer today, so nowhere even close.

120’000 miles on the same cam belt !

[W201_190e]

105.4 said:

littleruss said:

Official belt change is 120k / 5 years according to the dealer today, so nowhere even close.

120’000 miles on the same cam belt !

I believe Jaguar is 5 years or 105,000 miles.

[105.4]

W201_190e said:

105.4 said:

littleruss said:

Official belt change is 120k / 5 years according to the dealer today, so nowhere even close.

120’000 miles on the same cam belt !

I believe Jaguar is 5 years or 105,000 miles.

That’s just insane.

For the sake of a couple of hundred quid for a belt kit, I think I’d be changing it every 25’000 miles.

[Draxindustries1]

Limpet said:

Portofino said:

Sheepshanks said:

Ouroboros said:

tim0409 said:

I thought it was caveat emptor when purchasing from a private individual, unless the car was misdescribed?

yes sounds like one of those made up stories.

Basically only description, there is nothing about fit for purpose etc.

Other members on here have lost cases on cars they've sold privately.

Mmmmm something fishy,I think the judge would just throw it out on a private sale, not from a dealer though.

I should know as it happened to me on a fully serviced VGC car that nearly killed me & cost me 3k to fix.

Edited by Portofino on Tuesday 9th August 22:09

A claim against a private seller for a mechanical failure on a 150,000 mile car would surely be laughed out of court. If true, I actually feel sorry for the seller.

This is why the likes of webuyanycar are doing so well.

Something not right with this. No way can anyone tell if a belt is about to snap.
The seller likely sold the car in good faith and it had to be in ' good running order' for the buyer to test drive it and drive it away.
Everything is in good running order until it breaks/ blows up / sts itself.
Someone selling a used washing machine could give a buyer a demo, the next day the motor could implode , its the way of used mechanical items.
The incident with the A3 should have been laughed out of court..

[Draxindustries1]

105.4 said:

littleruss said:

Official belt change is 120k / 5 years according to the dealer today, so nowhere even close.

120’000 miles on the same cam belt !

MK2 Focus 2007 onwards 1.6 diesel 150k miles or 10 years. Its a heavy duty wide thick belt.

[W201_190e]

105.4 said:

W201_190e said:

105.4 said:

littleruss said:

Official belt change is 120k / 5 years according to the dealer today, so nowhere even close.

120’000 miles on the same cam belt !

I believe Jaguar is 5 years or 105,000 miles.

That’s just insane.

For the sake of a couple of hundred quid for a belt kit, I think I’d be changing it every 25’000 miles.

I think the 2.7 Jag is an 8ish hour £1000ish job.

[stevemcs]

James6112 said:

A weird statement

Not really, vw don’t seem to be able to build a decent engine these days.

[Baldchap]

105.4 said:

W201_190e said:

105.4 said:

littleruss said:

Official belt change is 120k / 5 years according to the dealer today, so nowhere even close.

120’000 miles on the same cam belt !

I believe Jaguar is 5 years or 105,000 miles.

That’s just insane.

For the sake of a couple of hundred quid for a belt kit, I think I’d be changing it every 25’000 miles.

I'm a for proactive maintenance, but less than 1/4 intervals is just wasteful.

[Carlososos]

105.4 said:

W201_190e said:

105.4 said:

littleruss said:

Official belt change is 120k / 5 years according to the dealer today, so nowhere even close.

120’000 miles on the same cam belt !

I believe Jaguar is 5 years or 105,000 miles.

That’s just insane.

For the sake of a couple of hundred quid for a belt kit, I think I’d be changing it every 25’000 miles.

VW state that the UP! Cambelt Is a lifetime item and only needs visual check and replace is necessary.

[Threadbear]

Timing belt and waterpump replacement recommendation on the VAG 1.6TDi is 5 years. Had my Octavia`s replaced last year and the old one looked like new.