RE: Porsche Taycan Turbo S sets new 'ring EV record
Discussion
Harrypop said:
Limpet said:
J4CKO said:
Car makers are now making things like the Taycan, mainly because of Tesla coming in and disrupting the market place
Precisely. The only reason any of the established car manufacturers give a stuff about electric cars now is because Tesla showed they could be made fast, desirable and interesting, and that people would pay a premium accordingly.Cheaper to run, cheaper to service, less to go wrong and better real world performance.
The BIK thing has helped of course but I still think they would be selling a lot regardless.
greggy50 said:
Nestly all EV owners wouldn't switch back to ICE imo. Most of the population aren't car enthusiasts and when you take that out of the equation providing the range is sufficient for your needs EVs do make better daily drivers.
Cheaper to run, cheaper to service, less to go wrong and better real world performance.
The BIK thing has helped of course but I still think they would be selling a lot regardless.
Is that a slightly long-winded way of saying that no; governmental legislation regarding the future of petrol and diesel cars has had absolutely nothing to do with it?Cheaper to run, cheaper to service, less to go wrong and better real world performance.
The BIK thing has helped of course but I still think they would be selling a lot regardless.
Talksteer said:
The Model S can of course go faster than the 7:35 time. It has set a 7:12 lap with the right rubber and the ceramic brake upgrade which is available from the manufacturer.
So why didn't they do that then? I can't imagine the Musketeers would have done anything but show their box in the best light possible.Youtube reviews I’ve seen said the Model S Plaid is a dog on the track. Lots of brake fade, yoke steering wheel that makes sharp turns difficult, poor body control at speed.
Seeing all the reviews say the opposite about the Taycan, it doesn’t surprise me that it can beat Model S Plaid with 70% ish of the power.
Seeing all the reviews say the opposite about the Taycan, it doesn’t surprise me that it can beat Model S Plaid with 70% ish of the power.
BVB said:
Tesla's end is in sight. People like Porsche who actually know how to make cars are now coming thick and fast with EV's. Tesla are finished.
No one can match Tesla for their electronic integration right now and non of the legacy car manufacturers are set up like a ‘tech’ company to deliver on a software first basis. This is only going to increase in importance in the future as cars continue to automate and ICE is eventually outlawed. Companies that can’t make the switch from a mechanical mindset are going to go under. I read a CAR magazine article regarding VW’s struggles to transition to a software first company. Apple and Samsung are quietly developing cars with this future in mind.
So basically, Tesla are very well placed and I wouldn’t write them off. The market is valuing them on the basis they will out complete other car makers in the future.
Edited by wyson on Thursday 11th August 07:38
RacerMike said:
Benchmarked a 4S last week at work. Genuinely so impressive, and it's one of the few EVs you drive and forget it's an EV within 10mins. Has character, steers beautifully, has incredible performance and feels really nicely resolved. Made me quite excited about the EV Cayman actually!
Do love that they've allowed Tesla to have the record for a bit and then basically gone and beaten the time with a car that was fundamentally already in production and on sale when Tesla did their record lap before. Very well played from Porsche IMO...they didn't rush out and beat the time. They just casually released it several months later after Tesla had had their fun thinking they'd pulled a blinder....
That's interesting to hear. In terms of steering feel and general feedback, how would you place it compared to similar ICE stuff? I know it's not necessarily critical in a big saloon car, but it would be interesting to know. Do love that they've allowed Tesla to have the record for a bit and then basically gone and beaten the time with a car that was fundamentally already in production and on sale when Tesla did their record lap before. Very well played from Porsche IMO...they didn't rush out and beat the time. They just casually released it several months later after Tesla had had their fun thinking they'd pulled a blinder....
I think that's the big thing with EVs for me. I'm not totally against the idea (though will miss the sound/character of an ICE), but I do want something that still has some driver engagement in terms of giving a bit of feedback and feel. I fear we're going to lose that from most mainstream cars as we go to EV, as it's slipped down the agenda with a lot of ICE cars too.
LuS1fer said:
I don't know about everyone else but I never even consider buying a car without knowing its Nurburgring circuit time.
I find it absulutely crucial information to know how much quicker I can get to Aldis and what effect a full load of shopping will have.
I mean, FFS, who honestly cares?
I care. It wouldn't have much influence on whether I bought a particular car or not, but I still find it interesting. It's obviously meaningless in many ways, but this site is aimed at car enthusiasts, so I'd find it a bit odd if we had no interest in how fast cars can go.I find it absulutely crucial information to know how much quicker I can get to Aldis and what effect a full load of shopping will have.
I mean, FFS, who honestly cares?
Jon_S_Rally said:
RacerMike said:
Benchmarked a 4S last week at work. Genuinely so impressive, and it's one of the few EVs you drive and forget it's an EV within 10mins. Has character, steers beautifully, has incredible performance and feels really nicely resolved. Made me quite excited about the EV Cayman actually!
Do love that they've allowed Tesla to have the record for a bit and then basically gone and beaten the time with a car that was fundamentally already in production and on sale when Tesla did their record lap before. Very well played from Porsche IMO...they didn't rush out and beat the time. They just casually released it several months later after Tesla had had their fun thinking they'd pulled a blinder....
That's interesting to hear. In terms of steering feel and general feedback, how would you place it compared to similar ICE stuff? I know it's not necessarily critical in a big saloon car, but it would be interesting to know. Do love that they've allowed Tesla to have the record for a bit and then basically gone and beaten the time with a car that was fundamentally already in production and on sale when Tesla did their record lap before. Very well played from Porsche IMO...they didn't rush out and beat the time. They just casually released it several months later after Tesla had had their fun thinking they'd pulled a blinder....
I didn't think it would, but the artificial sound you can turn on actually really helps the involvement in the car. It has an external sound generator as well, and makes some launch control style noises when you use Launch Control (like muted Ign Cut). Almost certain everyone on here will/would poo poo it, but it did quite a good job of instilling some character into the powertrain.
RacerMike said:
Feels exactly like a Porsche. Precise and accurate with decent feedback through the nicely proportioned wheel rim. The Tesla feels like a Logitec G29 connected to Gran Tourismo. Honestly feels super similar to a Panamera.
I didn't think it would, but the artificial sound you can turn on actually really helps the involvement in the car. It has an external sound generator as well, and makes some launch control style noises when you use Launch Control (like muted Ign Cut). Almost certain everyone on here will/would poo poo it, but it did quite a good job of instilling some character into the powertrain.
Interesting. Re the external sound generator, I think I heard one the other day. Wondered what the sound was. Sounded like an 8 bit racing game, then I realised it must have been an EV fake sound.I didn't think it would, but the artificial sound you can turn on actually really helps the involvement in the car. It has an external sound generator as well, and makes some launch control style noises when you use Launch Control (like muted Ign Cut). Almost certain everyone on here will/would poo poo it, but it did quite a good job of instilling some character into the powertrain.
greggy50 said:
Most of the population aren't car enthusiasts and when you take that out of the equation providing the range is sufficient for your needs EVs do make better daily drivers.
So why are manufacturers like Tesla and Porsche chasing 'ring times when a large proportion of their customers (or potential customers) don't give a hoot about that aspect, or indeed any earth shattering speed/power or other related performance factor?In fact why are EV manufacturers not concentrating all their efforts on better range with a more sensible acceleration/top speed when the vast majority of potential is for economy, comfort, reliability, ease of use and distance covered without stopping to refill?
Hoofy said:
RacerMike said:
Feels exactly like a Porsche. Precise and accurate with decent feedback through the nicely proportioned wheel rim. The Tesla feels like a Logitec G29 connected to Gran Tourismo. Honestly feels super similar to a Panamera.
I didn't think it would, but the artificial sound you can turn on actually really helps the involvement in the car. It has an external sound generator as well, and makes some launch control style noises when you use Launch Control (like muted Ign Cut). Almost certain everyone on here will/would poo poo it, but it did quite a good job of instilling some character into the powertrain.
Interesting. Re the external sound generator, I think I heard one the other day. Wondered what the sound was. Sounded like an 8 bit racing game, then I realised it must have been an EV fake sound.I didn't think it would, but the artificial sound you can turn on actually really helps the involvement in the car. It has an external sound generator as well, and makes some launch control style noises when you use Launch Control (like muted Ign Cut). Almost certain everyone on here will/would poo poo it, but it did quite a good job of instilling some character into the powertrain.
cookie1600 said:
greggy50 said:
Most of the population aren't car enthusiasts and when you take that out of the equation providing the range is sufficient for your needs EVs do make better daily drivers.
So why are manufacturers like Tesla and Porsche chasing 'ring times when a large proportion of their customers (or potential customers) don't give a hoot about that aspect, or indeed any earth shattering speed/power or other related performance factor?In fact why are EV manufacturers not concentrating all their efforts on better range with a more sensible acceleration/top speed when the vast majority of potential is for economy, comfort, reliability, ease of use and distance covered without stopping to refill?
EVs having massive power really doesn't affect range much at all its not like an ICE car. My Polestar 2 has 470bhp vs 220bhp of the single range version and the claimed range difference is only about 10% despite having more than twice the power.
The range is also already fine for most of the population on the more recent EVs as well. I do just over 20kpa i.e. just over double the national average and I can't remember the last time I used a public charger and this is on a real world 240-250 miles. Some of the EVs now i.e. Model 3 LR & I4 40 can do more like 300 real world which is more than enough.
Of course if you don't have a driveway its more difficult but for a good chunk of the population the technology is already good enough to transition without any drawbacks.
RacerMike said:
Hoofy said:
RacerMike said:
Feels exactly like a Porsche. Precise and accurate with decent feedback through the nicely proportioned wheel rim. The Tesla feels like a Logitec G29 connected to Gran Tourismo. Honestly feels super similar to a Panamera.
I didn't think it would, but the artificial sound you can turn on actually really helps the involvement in the car. It has an external sound generator as well, and makes some launch control style noises when you use Launch Control (like muted Ign Cut). Almost certain everyone on here will/would poo poo it, but it did quite a good job of instilling some character into the powertrain.
Interesting. Re the external sound generator, I think I heard one the other day. Wondered what the sound was. Sounded like an 8 bit racing game, then I realised it must have been an EV fake sound.I didn't think it would, but the artificial sound you can turn on actually really helps the involvement in the car. It has an external sound generator as well, and makes some launch control style noises when you use Launch Control (like muted Ign Cut). Almost certain everyone on here will/would poo poo it, but it did quite a good job of instilling some character into the powertrain.
LucyP said:
And how much battery range was left afterwards? And did the battery have to be specially cooled/heated/conditioned first?
These 'Ring lap records were pointless with ICE cars, and they are even more pointless with an EV. Has anyone ever been overtaken by an EV? Has anyone ever seen an EV on the motorway not in lane 1, following the trucks, saving battery range?
Erm yes, that would be me. I overtake most other cars, to and from my way to work.These 'Ring lap records were pointless with ICE cars, and they are even more pointless with an EV. Has anyone ever been overtaken by an EV? Has anyone ever seen an EV on the motorway not in lane 1, following the trucks, saving battery range?
sxmwht said:
Limpet said:
Precisely. The only reason any of the established car manufacturers give a stuff about electric cars now is because Tesla showed they could be made fast, desirable and interesting, and that people would pay a premium accordingly.
I must have missed the Tesla that was desirable and interesting. Got a link?Edited by Slowlygettingit on Thursday 11th August 19:27
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