Biggest improvement between a car and its direct successor

[300bhp/ton]

Dave. said:

Discovery 2 to Discovery 3?

Vastly different construction. But both brilliant. The D3 was different rather than vastly better.

[mac96]

Linked to original suggestion- Mk2 (rwd) to Mk3 (fwd) Escort, especially in basic 1.3 form.

[300bhp/ton]

InitialDave said:

I'm struggling to think of anything that really betters the Escort to Focus example.

Agreed.

To meet the ops thread title it needs to be a rubbish vehicle or at least a poor example in its class, which the Mk6 Escort was. And then replaced with something completely new (not just a rebody/restyle) that is very very good. Which the Focus was.


Not as radical, but some of Asian makers such as the old Picanto or Rio and the current ones.

[Skyrocket21]

Citroen Traction Avant to the Citroen DS.

[NomduJour]

300bhp/ton said:

Does your PC/phone not show pictures? I took it straight from the LR website. Clearly showing what is available. And it wasn’t £43k.

It’s actually less than £43k minus the VAT and RFL; or £51,365 vs something like (depending on inflation calculation) £38.5k with VAT for the most basic 2015 90 Hard Top in today’s money.

Edited by NomduJour on Wednesday 1st February 02:20

[andrebar]

Peugeot 104 to the 205?

[Mr Tidy]

Not quite the same size though.

I'd always think the 106 replaced the 104 and the 205 was the replacement for the 204 - but what a huge step forwards that was!

[anonymous-user]

Carguy44 said:

alscar said:

Nickbrapp said:

Land Rover defender and the new model, better in every single way.

I’m sure you’re absolutely right other than in how it looks, what it costs and the fact it won’t get under your skin.
I accept this may mean better for some.

I prefer the look of the new one and the old ones were rather expensive for what they were. To be honest I think the old ones are awful things, I do get why people might like them though.

Except it’s not really a succession of the Defender, they did that in 1989 with the Discovery 1 the new Defender is the successor to the Discovery 4

[Bonefish Blues]

jamesbilluk said:

More recently, the prius, I actually quite like the new one! Although it's not coming here.

You've missed a generation I think.

[Minsky]

Every single EV is better than the ICE it replaced.

The biggest jump in quality has to be Kia. The producer of deeply nasty cars just a decade ago and then a jump to stuff like the EV6, E-Niro etc.

Further afield looking at what BYD and other Chinese brands have done. HonQi being the ones that have jumped the most. From basically a very old 1950's inspired Toyota copy in 2010 to today selling the QM5 EV. Staggering development cycle, even though not the most tasteful.

[jamesbilluk]

Bonefish Blues said:

You've missed a generation I think.

I had it lined up in my gallery to add Must have not uploaded!
I still prefer the new generation.

[McGee_22]

Rolls Royce Phantom VI to Rolls Royce Phantom VII

[spikyone]

Minsky said:

Every single EV is better than the ICE it replaced.

No. Many times no. I think you're on the wrong website.

Minsky said:

The biggest jump in quality has to be Kia. The producer of deeply nasty cars just a decade ago and then a jump to stuff like the EV6, E-Niro etc.

I will sort of agree with this in that Kia/Hyundai have come on in leaps and bounds to be true class leaders. I suffered a Hyundai Getz courtesy car once and it was utterly dreadful in almost every way. A couple of years later my heart sank when I was handed the keys for an i20 mk1 for a road trip in Australia.

Where the Getz epitomised cheap and nasty South Korean cars with gawky styling, dismal dynamics and a nasty dated interior, the i20 looked reasonable, the front wheels felt like they were connected to both the steering wheel and the road, and it had an up to date cabin. It wasn't outstanding, but it was typical of most mainstream hatches of the time in that it was good enough - you wouldn't just be buying it because it was cheaper than anything else.

With Hyundai's transition to making some genuinely interesting and good-looking cars now, the i20 was significant both for being incomparably better than the Getz and the first step on that journey.

[HelldogBE]

samoht said:

Perhaps it looks like a big jump because you've jumped over the in-between fourth generation car:

The Prius 4 was extremely ugly at the rear

[otolith]

alscar said:

I’m sure you’re absolutely right other than in how it looks, what it costs and the fact it won’t get under your skin.
I accept this may mean better for some.

In the same sense as scabies mites?

[otolith]

Although it carried over a lot of the running gear of the mk2, the mk3 Cavalier was more polished but looked so much more modern. My dad was in fleet hire at the time and had one before they were in the showrooms. I thought it made the old one (and most other things) look ancient.

[edc]

The biggest improvement must be Porsche 993 to 996.

[white_goodman]

Truckosaurus said:

Rovers engineered from Hondas or BMWs:

Rover 100 which was basically an original Metro with a K-series, to the Rover 25.

Rover 800 to 75

Triumph Acclaim versus anything else '80s BL, followed by the Honda based Rover 200/400 loads better than a Montego/Maestro.

Edit to Add: Wikipedia suggests the Acclaim came a year after the end of Dolomite production. They definitely seem from different eras.

Edited by Truckosaurus on Tuesday 31st January 18:15

I think that technically the City Rover was a replacement for the 100 and a worse one at that!

I think that the public got a bit confused by the R3 Rover 200/400 (which later became the 25/45). Unlike the previous R8 Rover 200/400 which was a direct Escort/Orion rival, with the R3, the 200 was in between a Fiesta/Escort in terms of size and the 400 between the Escort/Mondeo. Thus they were judged as a bit cramped compared to the Escort/Mondeo respectively and a bit pricey compared to the Fiesta/Escort. Really nice cars at the time though, more nicely appointed than a Ford/Vauxhall and drove well. Later on the 25/45 were priced more in-line with Fiestas/Focuses, so offered great value ie a bigger car for the price of a smaller one. It's a shame that Rover lacked investment to develop new models.

Depends whether the OP is just talking stylistically or the driving experience (or both). He pretty much nailed it on all counts in the first post with the Escort to Focus example but mk4 Cortina to Sierra was also a giant leap stylistically (but Sierra to Mondeo a bigger leap dynamically).

Either way, Ford or Rover probably have a strong claim. P4 to P5 to P6 to SD1 to 800 to 75 were all pretty big stylistic jumps but so was mk2 to mk3 Granada and 2004 to 2005 Mustang, if not so radical underneath. However, the Austin Metro and mk3 Fiesta were also transformed by the addition of the K-Series and Zetec engines respectively. Still looked very similar but went from worst to drive to amongst the best to drive cars in their class, if not best all-rounders overall.

The answer is probably something from the 80s or 90s though, as this seems like the era (going from 70s to 80s and 80s to 90s) when cars improved the most. I would say that the most modern/futuristic looking new cars in the mid-80s were Fords, Citroens, Saabs and Audis but there are a number of possible candidates.

Volvo 850 (from the 240) was the first "modern" Volvo and integral to transforming Volvo from a fuddy duddy to a cool brand.

P38 to L322 Range Rover was a big step up in luxury and refinement.

E30 to E36 3-Series took the 3-Series upmarket, more space, more sophisticated rear suspension, new 24v engines, less boxy looks, diesel engines etc.

Traction Avant to DS was a great shout as already mentioned.

In the luxury car world, how about DB7 to DB9?

One from personal experience is the Chrysler Grand Voyager to Chrysler Pacifica. Had a last gen Grand Voyager when the kids were small and it was a decent enough car, very practical but typical cheap American interior and felt about 10-15 years older in terms of design than it actually was. Rented a new Chrysler Pacifica in the US a couple of years ago and was pleasantly surprised. Much nicer inside, decent materials, smooth transmission, much more refined and quite stylish for a minivan.

Edited by white_goodman on Wednesday 1st February 04:18

Edited by white_goodman on Wednesday 1st February 04:44

Edited by white_goodman on Wednesday 1st February 14:42

[Truckosaurus]

robbieduncan said:

You could argue the AX replaced the 2CV. ...

The AX to Saxo was a decent jump. The AX was a proper flimsy vehicle but the Saxo (platform shared, of course, with the Pug 106) was much more solid.

Another long running anachronistic car along with Minis, Defenders, 2CVs,etc was the original FIAT Panda. That lumbered on until 2003 when the 2nd gen Panda came along. It also saw off the Cinquecento and lasted half way through Seicento production - and only a 4 year gap to the new 500 which is still going.

[Carguy44]

DukeofBork said:

Carguy44 said:

alscar said:

Nickbrapp said:

Land Rover defender and the new model, better in every single way.

I’m sure you’re absolutely right other than in how it looks, what it costs and the fact it won’t get under your skin.
I accept this may mean better for some.

I prefer the look of the new one and the old ones were rather expensive for what they were. To be honest I think the old ones are awful things, I do get why people might like them though.

Except it’s not really a succession of the Defender, they did that in 1989 with the Discovery 1 the new Defender is the successor to the Discovery 4

Land rover are calling it a defender, so that's good enough for me to class it as a defender and not something else.