Double cab pickup tax loophole closing
Discussion
teapea said:
joropug said:
My friends company has a fleet of brand new disco commercials, which appear to be a discovery without back seats. Therefore, it’s a van with no company car tax.
They’ve all been retrofitted with aftermarket rear seats…..
Guessing they’ll be next.
This is just tax evasion, if you add back seats it's no longer a vanThey’ve all been retrofitted with aftermarket rear seats…..
Guessing they’ll be next.
Is a goods vehicle still a goods vehicle, even if it has seats in the back?
That depends on the particular circumstances. A goods vehicle is ‘a motor vehicle constructed or adapted for use for the carriage or haulage of goods or burden of any description’. A passenger vehicle is ‘a vehicle constructed solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects’.
If, by adding extra seats, all the load space was now taken up by passengers and their effects, a court might decide that the vehicle now fell under the description of ‘passenger vehicle’ rather than ‘goods vehicle’ and would need to meet the regulations that applied to passenger vehicles. This could affect the requirements for items such as seatbelts and brakes, as well as licensing requirements.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/convert...
MB140 said:
I foresee a load of what we’re dual row pickups being sold with no back seats to allow for commercial BIK status but you somehow being able to buy the seats as an accessory and install them yourself.
People do this a lot with Discovery 3/4 commercials. You see loads for sale with the s
ttest of back seats in them 
Apparently in Ireland the revenue men have to witness the rear windows being smashed and solid panels fitted.
Gareth79 said:
monkfish1 said:
JackJarvis said:
There's a couple of mums at my kids' school who do the drop off / "pick up" in these, run through their husband's business as a commercial vehicle. It doesn't particularly bother me, if I was self employed I'd probably have done the same. It makes perfect sense they'd want to close that loophole though.
And now, those families will have to run 2 cars instead of one.The person using it for business work will have little choice but to buy a single cab. And then have to buy a family car.
Thus increasing the number of cars. Because that makes perfect sense!
TheOctaneAddict said:
Makes sense really, but I cant help but think this also might be shafting the people who actually need these trucks.
It is a little irritating. I am a Chartered Surveyor, but work in the telecoms sector. Back in 2017 my patch was UK and Ireland. I started with one of these. Great van, but prone to getting me stuck in random inconvenient places.
At the end of that Lease I went for one of these, which meant I got stuck less often.
The chap who now does my old job collects his new Ranger next month, just in time to dodge the bullet this time around. Given the type of work we do there really is very limited options to avoid 4wd and the mileage makes ownership an unattractive option, I've not looked and can't imagine they will be Bik friendly, and it will be curious to see what this does to future choice and the Raptor which has never worked as it falls out of the commercial category.
Zero Fuchs said:
teapea said:
joropug said:
My friends company has a fleet of brand new disco commercials, which appear to be a discovery without back seats. Therefore, it’s a van with no company car tax.
They’ve all been retrofitted with aftermarket rear seats…..
Guessing they’ll be next.
This is just tax evasion, if you add back seats it's no longer a vanThey’ve all been retrofitted with aftermarket rear seats…..
Guessing they’ll be next.
Is a goods vehicle still a goods vehicle, even if it has seats in the back?
That depends on the particular circumstances. A goods vehicle is ‘a motor vehicle constructed or adapted for use for the carriage or haulage of goods or burden of any description’. A passenger vehicle is ‘a vehicle constructed solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects’.
If, by adding extra seats, all the load space was now taken up by passengers and their effects, a court might decide that the vehicle now fell under the description of ‘passenger vehicle’ rather than ‘goods vehicle’ and would need to meet the regulations that applied to passenger vehicles. This could affect the requirements for items such as seatbelts and brakes, as well as licensing requirements.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/convert...
I am sure this person would be most aggrieved if I stole one of his “vans” and would want me prosecuted but he feels fine about stealing from me by avoiding his taxes. Hypocrite.
andy43 said:
Yeah, but who actually needs self employed electricians, plumbers, carpenters, tilers?
Coincidentally I'm in a quiet Spanish seaside resort right now, at a time when the town is being spruced up for the coming season by the very people you mention, plus plasterers and painters, and there isn't a double cab pick up to be seen anywhere, just white vans.Pretty much the same kind of small white van the French use for hunting, which the Brits cannot do without Range Rovers.
egor110 said:
Hustle_ said:
I live in the south east. I never see doublecabs around here being used for work. Through that lens you end up wondering why there is what appears to be a tax incentive for people to buy them- they are big, unnecessary, less safe and more polluting than other vehicles which are available to do that job i.e. move up to five people around.
If you look at the U.S. trend these trucks only seem to get more ridiculous in proportion. While the truly ridiculous ones don't make it over here you only have to look at our propensity to follow U.S. trends and also to buy bigger and bigger vehicles in general to know that 'we' (the royal 'we') don't want to continue to financially incentivise people to buy them to ultimately kart the kids about etc.
I do get that elsewhere in the country trucks like this get used to do work. I am biased.
If we go down the unnecessary route then you'll be driving something with a far smaller engine then ?If you look at the U.S. trend these trucks only seem to get more ridiculous in proportion. While the truly ridiculous ones don't make it over here you only have to look at our propensity to follow U.S. trends and also to buy bigger and bigger vehicles in general to know that 'we' (the royal 'we') don't want to continue to financially incentivise people to buy them to ultimately kart the kids about etc.
I do get that elsewhere in the country trucks like this get used to do work. I am biased.
After all the uk speed limit is 70 so anything that does over that is unnecessary .
The prejudice in this thread is hilarious.
Makes no odds to me as my company have owned my truck for three years now. I use it for property maintenance as part of my business and farming as part of my part time work. A van would get stuck where I need to go and would be useless in the winter in the North Pennines.
The L200 will be getting kept a while and when 2028 comes around I'll buy it from my company when it's worth next to nothing and run it while longer.
It's not my main car as we also have a L322, but it is a useful bit of kit.
I had a Defender 90 Hard Top Van prior to this which I loved, but I didn't love fixing it all the time. My ideal vehicle would be a New Defender 90 Commercial but the cost isn't justifiable.
Makes no odds to me as my company have owned my truck for three years now. I use it for property maintenance as part of my business and farming as part of my part time work. A van would get stuck where I need to go and would be useless in the winter in the North Pennines.
The L200 will be getting kept a while and when 2028 comes around I'll buy it from my company when it's worth next to nothing and run it while longer.
It's not my main car as we also have a L322, but it is a useful bit of kit.
I had a Defender 90 Hard Top Van prior to this which I loved, but I didn't love fixing it all the time. My ideal vehicle would be a New Defender 90 Commercial but the cost isn't justifiable.
NomduJour said:
Absolutely, imagine not paying more tax than you have to. Those evil accountants should be strung up.
As ever though, there's a difference between avoiding tax and evading tax. Honest subbies have possibly been screwed by people buying roughly toughy trucks for image only, as opposed to the ordinary family car or crossover they would otherwise afford. surveyor said:
It is a little irritating.
I am a Chartered Surveyor, but work in the telecoms sector. Back in 2017 my patch was UK and Ireland. I started with one of these. Great van, but prone to getting me stuck in random inconvenient places.
At the end of that Lease I went for one of these, which meant I got stuck less often.
The chap who now does my old job collects his new Ranger next month, just in time to dodge the bullet this time around. Given the type of work we do there really is very limited options to avoid 4wd and the mileage makes ownership an unattractive option, I've not looked and can't imagine they will be Bik friendly, and it will be curious to see what this does to future choice and the Raptor which has never worked as it falls out of the commercial category.
Manufacturers will just launch a PHEV version. I am a Chartered Surveyor, but work in the telecoms sector. Back in 2017 my patch was UK and Ireland. I started with one of these. Great van, but prone to getting me stuck in random inconvenient places.
At the end of that Lease I went for one of these, which meant I got stuck less often.
The chap who now does my old job collects his new Ranger next month, just in time to dodge the bullet this time around. Given the type of work we do there really is very limited options to avoid 4wd and the mileage makes ownership an unattractive option, I've not looked and can't imagine they will be Bik friendly, and it will be curious to see what this does to future choice and the Raptor which has never worked as it falls out of the commercial category.
joropug said:
My friends company has a fleet of brand new disco commercials, which appear to be a discovery without back seats. Therefore, it’s a van with no company car tax.
They’ve all been retrofitted with aftermarket rear seats…..
Guessing they’ll be next.
Is there an insurance risk here? Insurance based on registration document?They’ve all been retrofitted with aftermarket rear seats…..
Guessing they’ll be next.
I had two as company cars over 6 years. They did get used as vans by myself and other drivers and to collect workers in the snow etc.
What has killed them is lots of people simply jumped on the tax saving hence you see so many driven by people who have no need for one and also why they jumped in and stated making them like luxury cars inside.
It was inevitable the tax man would look at them more closely as the popularity of them increased
What has killed them is lots of people simply jumped on the tax saving hence you see so many driven by people who have no need for one and also why they jumped in and stated making them like luxury cars inside.
It was inevitable the tax man would look at them more closely as the popularity of them increased
Zarco said:
gazza285 said:
Don Roque said:
Good news, it'll be nice to see fewer of these turds on the road in future.
Marvellous, now we will take the two Transits we have to site, rather than all in the Ranger.
Not quite the disaster for trades as they can still be run as pool cars but there is little to no "perk" or private use in those...
acer12 said:
Is there an insurance risk here? Insurance based on registration document?
I would think so yes - I did question him on it as I couldn’t believe it was acceptable but claims that the insurers know about the seats. I don’t know if it had panels or windows, I thought the latter maybe it had a bigger conversion than I thought. https://www.westwoodmotorgroup.co.uk/landrover-dis...
The bench seat is not as nice as a factory one it’s similar to something you’d see in a converted camper, built in seat belts IIRC. I wonder if it is classed as temporary or something.
Earthdweller said:
TheOctaneAddict said:
Makes sense really, but I cant help but think this also might be shafting the people who actually need these trucks.
That’s always the problem isn’t it? Living in a real rural farming area these things are everywhere along with Landcruisers and the like and usually dragging large trailers with either livestock or machinery
They are just so damn practical and useful I can see exactly why all the farmers have them
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