Overcoming ISA and Lane Assist etc on post July 2024 Cars
Discussion
jezzaaa said:
H4. Affect of that un-coding on insurance cover? Is there any word that UK insurers would take umbrage?
An insurance policy that I had on a previous car had the following condition - insurance policy said:
b. Advanced Driver Assistance Systems
If your vehicle is fitted with Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS), we will not pay any claims for loss of or damage to your vehicle unless all software and/or safety updates are installed and up to date and all manufacturer’s guidelines followed. If we make payments under the Road Traffic Acts, we reserve the right to recover any such amounts from you.
I rather suspect that particular insurance company would take a dim view of un-coding the system, so if you are going to do it then worth checking your policy.If your vehicle is fitted with Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS), we will not pay any claims for loss of or damage to your vehicle unless all software and/or safety updates are installed and up to date and all manufacturer’s guidelines followed. If we make payments under the Road Traffic Acts, we reserve the right to recover any such amounts from you.
PF62 said:
jezzaaa said:
H4. Affect of that un-coding on insurance cover? Is there any word that UK insurers would take umbrage?
An insurance policy that I had on a previous car had the following condition - insurance policy said:
b. Advanced Driver Assistance Systems
If your vehicle is fitted with Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS), we will not pay any claims for loss of or damage to your vehicle unless all software and/or safety updates are installed and up to date and all manufacturer’s guidelines followed. If we make payments under the Road Traffic Acts, we reserve the right to recover any such amounts from you.
I rather suspect that particular insurance company would take a dim view of un-coding the system, so if you are going to do it then worth checking your policy.If your vehicle is fitted with Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS), we will not pay any claims for loss of or damage to your vehicle unless all software and/or safety updates are installed and up to date and all manufacturer’s guidelines followed. If we make payments under the Road Traffic Acts, we reserve the right to recover any such amounts from you.
The utopian nightmare has arrived.
Mr Tidy said:
They sound like a very mixed bag, some good and some terrible!
I'll just stick to my old cars that don't have any of them. Just old-fashioned cruise control that gets over-ridden if you brake or accelerate.
Lane keep assist (away from dual carriageways etc) is the only driver aid that I see as an issue tbf.I'll just stick to my old cars that don't have any of them. Just old-fashioned cruise control that gets over-ridden if you brake or accelerate.
As for cruise control though... radar cruise control is sooooo much better than 'ol' fashioned' cruise control. Especially in stop start or queuing traffic!
I've driven quite a few different cars with Lane Keep Assist, and although many are quite irritating, provided you keep a proper hold on the steering wheel none have actually felt dangerous.
The nudging of the steering wheel it does is no more than you get from ruts or a strange camber on the road, though that does mean there's no chance of getting any meaningful feedback from the steering (not that there is much in the way of feedback from most over-assisted electric power steering anyway).
The system on my wife's Leon is probably the most irritating I've used, though there is a certain pleasure in leaving it on and fighting against it until it gets so angry it flashes up repeated messages of "Drive in the centre of the lane". Shortly afterwards it then drops into a sulk and seemingly going into some fault/reset state where it gives up entirely for a few minutes.....
I'm yet to come across one of the systems which read road sign speed limits work in any sort of useful manner though. For quite a long time, I couldn't figure out why my car always told me there was a 50mph limit as I joined the motorway at the junction near my house. There was no 50 limit anywhere near that junction, and it took me a while to figure that it was reading the motorway junction number (white text in a black rectangle) and interpreting that as a speed limit. It says something about how terrible the software design is if it doesn't even look for right kind of sign for a speed limit. I've also had it declare that the speed limit was 110mph which is higher than a speed limit anywhere in the world never mind the UK.
The nudging of the steering wheel it does is no more than you get from ruts or a strange camber on the road, though that does mean there's no chance of getting any meaningful feedback from the steering (not that there is much in the way of feedback from most over-assisted electric power steering anyway).
The system on my wife's Leon is probably the most irritating I've used, though there is a certain pleasure in leaving it on and fighting against it until it gets so angry it flashes up repeated messages of "Drive in the centre of the lane". Shortly afterwards it then drops into a sulk and seemingly going into some fault/reset state where it gives up entirely for a few minutes.....
I'm yet to come across one of the systems which read road sign speed limits work in any sort of useful manner though. For quite a long time, I couldn't figure out why my car always told me there was a 50mph limit as I joined the motorway at the junction near my house. There was no 50 limit anywhere near that junction, and it took me a while to figure that it was reading the motorway junction number (white text in a black rectangle) and interpreting that as a speed limit. It says something about how terrible the software design is if it doesn't even look for right kind of sign for a speed limit. I've also had it declare that the speed limit was 110mph which is higher than a speed limit anywhere in the world never mind the UK.
TheDeuce said:
Lane keep assist (away from dual carriageways etc) is the only driver aid that I see as an issue tbf.
As for cruise control though... radar cruise control is sooooo much better than 'ol' fashioned' cruise control. Especially in stop start or queuing traffic!
I don't need it thanks! As for cruise control though... radar cruise control is sooooo much better than 'ol' fashioned' cruise control. Especially in stop start or queuing traffic!
I only ever use cruise when there is an average speed limit in force. The rest of the time my right foot controls speed just fine.
Quick bump to add this from the EV section - MG returned due to daft 2024 systems :
Mikebentley said:
Just so you know why my above post was edited.
I posted up the reply email I received from MG UK Customer Services.
It was little short of patronising. They suggested the car knows best and will make better decisions than I could make myself and that my driving needs to adjust. It is perfectly acceptable for the car to phantom brake /emergency stop and to input very aggressive steering inputs when it sees shadows etc. They even gave me a little lecture about the LKA and AEB functions being the precursor of fully autonomous vehicles and that their systems design and functionality are absolutely spot on.
I read the contents of my email from them and my lease company employee couldn’t believe it. They have offered me a no cost rejection of the car with a pro rata refund of my deposit which I am taking. MG seem incapable of accepting the car is on occasions borderline dangerous. Even today when passing a cyclist by about 3 metres with indicator on the car tried to steer hard to the left as I passed the cyclist.
I removed the email as I didn’t want to break name and shaming rules. The car is ok and quite a fun steer. The issue with LKA an and AEB are though making it very stressful to drive and the wife no longer will. It will be gone as soon as a replacement is found. Test drives tomorrow.
I posted up the reply email I received from MG UK Customer Services.
It was little short of patronising. They suggested the car knows best and will make better decisions than I could make myself and that my driving needs to adjust. It is perfectly acceptable for the car to phantom brake /emergency stop and to input very aggressive steering inputs when it sees shadows etc. They even gave me a little lecture about the LKA and AEB functions being the precursor of fully autonomous vehicles and that their systems design and functionality are absolutely spot on.
I read the contents of my email from them and my lease company employee couldn’t believe it. They have offered me a no cost rejection of the car with a pro rata refund of my deposit which I am taking. MG seem incapable of accepting the car is on occasions borderline dangerous. Even today when passing a cyclist by about 3 metres with indicator on the car tried to steer hard to the left as I passed the cyclist.
I removed the email as I didn’t want to break name and shaming rules. The car is ok and quite a fun steer. The issue with LKA an and AEB are though making it very stressful to drive and the wife no longer will. It will be gone as soon as a replacement is found. Test drives tomorrow.
119 said:
Some lane assist systems use the parking sensors.
I'm not aware of any such implementation and find difficult to believe they exist. Some PSA cars use the ultrasonics for blind spot detection (and the 308 mk1 and C4 mk1 had a weird system with cameras under the front bumper), but none that use them for lane assist.
740EVTORQUES said:
They’re not all bad.
The LKA on my KIA is brilliant, there in the background when you need it but not at all intrusive. I leave it on the whole time and you forget it’s there. Turning it on is the first thing I do as I pull away.
Same with my GV60. The LKA (lane keep) is unobtrusive and fairly tolerant - it’s on by default and I never bother to turn it off. The LFA (lane follow / smart cruise) makes for a very relaxed motorway cruise and I always turn it on when joining the Mway. The LKA on my KIA is brilliant, there in the background when you need it but not at all intrusive. I leave it on the whole time and you forget it’s there. Turning it on is the first thing I do as I pull away.
I’ve driven a Tesla Model X that would phantom brake and dive into services if the painted line was broken, so you end up with forearms tensed and expecting to fight it. If every system was like that, I would be joining the good fight. Thankfully, they are not.
I had a new Audi A3 hire car last week and the LKA was a nightmare around the narrow twisty roads here
The car was constantly trying to avoid the hedges and at the same time the centre white line, and as sometimes the white line isnt actually wide enough for a car it was a nightmare not helped by the fact a lot of the roads have a line on the edge as well
Fortunately it could be turned off .. every time you started the car, onto the touchscreen, scroll through the menus, select the submenu, scroll through, toggle switch and it’s off
But no matter how short the time you turned the car off for it would reset back on .. very frustrating
My wife actually refused to drive it, saying it was trying to kill her
The car was constantly trying to avoid the hedges and at the same time the centre white line, and as sometimes the white line isnt actually wide enough for a car it was a nightmare not helped by the fact a lot of the roads have a line on the edge as well
Fortunately it could be turned off .. every time you started the car, onto the touchscreen, scroll through the menus, select the submenu, scroll through, toggle switch and it’s off
But no matter how short the time you turned the car off for it would reset back on .. very frustrating
My wife actually refused to drive it, saying it was trying to kill her
Earthdweller said:
I had a new Audi A3 hire car last week and the LKA was a nightmare around the narrow twisty roads here
The car was constantly trying to avoid the hedges and at the same time the centre white line, and as sometimes the white line isnt actually wide enough for a car it was a nightmare not helped by the fact a lot of the roads have a line on the edge as well
Fortunately it could be turned off .. every time you started the car, onto the touchscreen, scroll through the menus, select the submenu, scroll through, toggle switch and it’s off
But no matter how short the time you turned the car off for it would reset back on .. very frustrating
My wife actually refused to drive it, saying it was trying to kill her
Totally agree and funnily enough I mentioned the exact same thing to Audi after sales today as I gave them the list of problems with car to deal with before the 3 year warranty runs out.The car was constantly trying to avoid the hedges and at the same time the centre white line, and as sometimes the white line isnt actually wide enough for a car it was a nightmare not helped by the fact a lot of the roads have a line on the edge as well
Fortunately it could be turned off .. every time you started the car, onto the touchscreen, scroll through the menus, select the submenu, scroll through, toggle switch and it’s off
But no matter how short the time you turned the car off for it would reset back on .. very frustrating
My wife actually refused to drive it, saying it was trying to kill her
Modern cars are a complete pain the arse!
Mazinbrum said:
All this s
t really puts me off new cars.
Me too.t really puts me off new cars.My 17 year old car was wittering at my earlier with bings and bongs but I think in the end it was a connection that’s got a bit of water in it on the near side headlight.
4 error codes, signs up on dash and nav screen etc.
Imagine what a 2024+ car will be like with electrical issues at 10yrs+ old. There is just so much stuff now with radars, steering controls etc.
I’m all for passive safety improvements like sensors and extra info for you to make choices with, but having the car actually actively faff with stuff like steering worries me.
ian_c_uk said:
740EVTORQUES said:
They’re not all bad.
The LKA on my KIA is brilliant, there in the background when you need it but not at all intrusive. I leave it on the whole time and you forget it’s there. Turning it on is the first thing I do as I pull away.
Same with my GV60. The LKA (lane keep) is unobtrusive and fairly tolerant - it’s on by default and I never bother to turn it off. The LFA (lane follow / smart cruise) makes for a very relaxed motorway cruise and I always turn it on when joining the Mway. The LKA on my KIA is brilliant, there in the background when you need it but not at all intrusive. I leave it on the whole time and you forget it’s there. Turning it on is the first thing I do as I pull away.
I’ve driven a Tesla Model X that would phantom brake and dive into services if the painted line was broken, so you end up with forearms tensed and expecting to fight it. If every system was like that, I would be joining the good fight. Thankfully, they are not.
andy43 said:
Same. 2019 Kia is brilliant, it just works, whereas my Tesla experience was woeful. Did improve over the two years of software updates, but it was never as relaxing and foolproof as the Kia. Our 2021 Honda wants to kill me/pedestrians/cyclists.
The LKA on my 23 Toyota is great, as it's a semi-smart system.It knows if there is a car stopped in your lane ahead that you are going to have to go around it, so won't trigger if you don't indicate.
If you take firm hold of the steering wheel when crossing white lines, it also knows you are in control and will not trigger. I can see from the dash that it has allowed it, as the white line display goes green to show allowed.
It's also smart enough to know that if you indicate one way and go another it will trigger. I had a VW loan car recently that was only programmed to check if the indicators were on, not which ones. You could indicate left and cross a white line on your right and the system wouldn't trigger - whereas the Toyota system can't be fooled.
I agree regarding the Honda system with my own 21 that was disposed of after a year it was so bad. Apparently it couldn't be updated, but Honda knew there were issues as newer models had a different camera unit with a wider field of view combined with improved software.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff