Clocking widespread
Discussion
Ever heard of someone 'clocking' the mileage up on a car? I have!
An acquaintance who was in the 'import-export' business bought a rather nice approved, low-mileage BMW 7 series from a dealership at the height of the James Bond hype (after the appearance of one in Tomorrow Never Dies) which he then arranged to have stratospheric mileage put on it before having it inspected by the RAC, and then exported to Thailand.
Reason? Thailand has an import duty rate of 210% on vehicles above 2400cc. For second-hand cars it is calculated on the market value, and he presented the RAC inspection as evidence of its value.
Once he got there he immediately had the mileage returned to the previous amount and put it up for sale, complete with documentary evidence from the dealership verifiable by local dealer computers!
An acquaintance who was in the 'import-export' business bought a rather nice approved, low-mileage BMW 7 series from a dealership at the height of the James Bond hype (after the appearance of one in Tomorrow Never Dies) which he then arranged to have stratospheric mileage put on it before having it inspected by the RAC, and then exported to Thailand.
Reason? Thailand has an import duty rate of 210% on vehicles above 2400cc. For second-hand cars it is calculated on the market value, and he presented the RAC inspection as evidence of its value.
Once he got there he immediately had the mileage returned to the previous amount and put it up for sale, complete with documentary evidence from the dealership verifiable by local dealer computers!
Edited by r11co on Friday 3rd December 13:20
Splats said:
Solution: Link oddometer to other systems in the car and get it to send constant mileage updates to the DVLA computer. Thus, it's a simple job to phone up the DVLA and find out the mileage.
Yes, and perhaps they could stick an OBDII cable up my arse whilst at it to make sure I wasnt getting too excitied at any point through my driving.Edited by Splats on Friday 3rd December 11:08
Honestly, is there anything more big brother than what you are suggesting (short of vehicle tracking
)ahh clocking.
My 330cd went back to the leasing company 3 months ago, with 140,000 miles on it (or there abouts) terminated half way through as i did too many miles, and fancied a changed.
Searching ebay last week - find my 330cd for sale at a local dealer stating "Milleage Incorrect", number plate masked out, however looks like my car, call up to confirm plate, dealer gives me some rubbish its on aprivate plate, brother takes a trip down there, confirms its my registration.
Somewhere between the leasing company taking it off me, and it landing on the dealers forecourt, milleage has gone from 140,000 to 75,000
I dont get it, i really dont, means my service book (which i sprent a great deal of time and money making sure it was serviced through BMW) has most prbably been binned.
Its all on the MOT database anyway, as confirmed with another car last week.
Just made me a bit sick tbh
R
My 330cd went back to the leasing company 3 months ago, with 140,000 miles on it (or there abouts) terminated half way through as i did too many miles, and fancied a changed.
Searching ebay last week - find my 330cd for sale at a local dealer stating "Milleage Incorrect", number plate masked out, however looks like my car, call up to confirm plate, dealer gives me some rubbish its on aprivate plate, brother takes a trip down there, confirms its my registration.
Somewhere between the leasing company taking it off me, and it landing on the dealers forecourt, milleage has gone from 140,000 to 75,000
I dont get it, i really dont, means my service book (which i sprent a great deal of time and money making sure it was serviced through BMW) has most prbably been binned.
Its all on the MOT database anyway, as confirmed with another car last week.
Just made me a bit sick tbh
R
robk84 said:
ahh clocking.
My 330cd went back to the leasing company 3 months ago, with 140,000 miles on it (or there abouts) terminated half way through as i did too many miles, and fancied a changed.
Searching ebay last week - find my 330cd for sale at a local dealer stating "Milleage Incorrect", number plate masked out, however looks like my car, call up to confirm plate, dealer gives me some rubbish its on aprivate plate, brother takes a trip down there, confirms its my registration.
Somewhere between the leasing company taking it off me, and it landing on the dealers forecourt, milleage has gone from 140,000 to 75,000
I dont get it, i really dont, means my service book (which i sprent a great deal of time and money making sure it was serviced through BMW) has most prbably been binned.
Its all on the MOT database anyway, as confirmed with another car last week.
Just made me a bit sick tbh
R
did you report it?My 330cd went back to the leasing company 3 months ago, with 140,000 miles on it (or there abouts) terminated half way through as i did too many miles, and fancied a changed.
Searching ebay last week - find my 330cd for sale at a local dealer stating "Milleage Incorrect", number plate masked out, however looks like my car, call up to confirm plate, dealer gives me some rubbish its on aprivate plate, brother takes a trip down there, confirms its my registration.
Somewhere between the leasing company taking it off me, and it landing on the dealers forecourt, milleage has gone from 140,000 to 75,000
I dont get it, i really dont, means my service book (which i sprent a great deal of time and money making sure it was serviced through BMW) has most prbably been binned.
Its all on the MOT database anyway, as confirmed with another car last week.
Just made me a bit sick tbh
R
Fastra said:
Efbe said:
To elaborate slightly. I said it was easy to tell between 80 and 160k miles.
Is it though?8 year old 320d.
Driver 1 uses it every day for a 50 mile round trip, through 4 towns involving a lot of stop/starting, wheel twirling, gear changes and indicating.
Driver 2 uses it every day for a 100 mile round trip, his house and work is right next to the motorway, this journey involves a lot less of wheel, brake and indicating.
So after 8 years you end up with 2 cars. One with twice the mileage of the other. Wouldn't the higher mileage show a lot less signs of initial wear due to its easier life?
But then the owner could be like every other pleb that doesn't accelerate to match the speed of traffic.
Efbe said:
in car is the easiest to tell. check anything plastic/cloth/leather that would have been worn down if someone was using it a lot.
such as: steering wheel, gear knob, indicators, common used buttons, seat, especially at right hand side, drivers door sill, drivers door handle, fading of colour on dash, and cloth interior/lining from sun exposure.
Fading of cloth interior and dash colour won't change due to different mileage cars. That comes down to the age of the car.such as: steering wheel, gear knob, indicators, common used buttons, seat, especially at right hand side, drivers door sill, drivers door handle, fading of colour on dash, and cloth interior/lining from sun exposure.
There is alot of s
te being spouted on this thread.
To many have been highlighted as clocked when its simple human error, MOT tester misses a digit or a seller has missed/added a digit when returning the 'yellow slip'
I would eat my foot if 9 out of 10 VAG's and BMW's are clocked as someone said!
In true PH fasion people ignore the people who are in the motortrade for the numb nuts who talks crap in the boozer/on the internet.
te being spouted on this thread.To many have been highlighted as clocked when its simple human error, MOT tester misses a digit or a seller has missed/added a digit when returning the 'yellow slip'
I would eat my foot if 9 out of 10 VAG's and BMW's are clocked as someone said!
In true PH fasion people ignore the people who are in the motortrade for the numb nuts who talks crap in the boozer/on the internet.
defblade said:
2 Wycked said:
People who are scared of high mileage cars are foolish and, on those grounds, I'd not be particularly bothered whether a car has been clocked as long as it's been maintained to a reasonable standard.
But are you happy to still pay the relatively increased price that a "lower mileage" car attracts? The joy of high mileage cars (especially premium brands, on the whole) is the low price due to the masses still thinking 100k = dead.
I get your point though.
Donut said:
There is alot of ste being spouted on this thread.
To many have been highlighted as clocked when its simple human error, MOT tester misses a digit or a seller has missed/added a digit when returning the 'yellow slip'
I would eat my foot if 9 out of 10 VAG's and BMW's are clocked as someone said!
In true PH fasion people ignore the people who are in the motortrade for the numb nuts who talks crap in the boozer/on the internet.
Absolutely.te being spouted on this thread.To many have been highlighted as clocked when its simple human error, MOT tester misses a digit or a seller has missed/added a digit when returning the 'yellow slip'
I would eat my foot if 9 out of 10 VAG's and BMW's are clocked as someone said!
In true PH fasion people ignore the people who are in the motortrade for the numb nuts who talks crap in the boozer/on the internet.
If you clock a car now, you basically have to bin the service history. (Would you spend 20k on a "nearly new" merc or BMW with no service book?!) and then "explain away" any HPI or MOT log discrepancies. IMO you'd lose more value on the car doing that than you'd gain from winding the clock back. That said, I don't doubt that the odd very high mile rep-mobile gets clocked back before its first MOT, then sold on through auctions/car supermarkets so that it might be carrying an extra 50,000 miles by the time the first private owner gets it.
To say it's widespread misrepresents it, IMO. All the more reason to insist on full history right back to day one, and buy on condition rather than miles. I'm currently rocking a (believed accurate) 167,000 miles and the car's running fine. Or is that 267,000 miles?
I would suggest that my 30k mile car has less seat time than an equivalent 15k car due to my high average speed. I commute an average of 80 miles a day and all on the motorway and so my average speed, even being conservative is around 50mph. For example I am part way through doing 1500 miles in less than 2 weeks. A car used to take the kids to the school may have an average speed of less than 20mph.
If you take a look at my car's interior it is near immaculate and that is with only cleaning it once. This is because I don't allow eating or smoking in the car as I like to keep it in good condition as I spend a great deal of time there. I may also have to take customers out in it and when negotiating international contracts a smelly dirty car could kill the deal. (I mention international because if I screw it up my colleagues around the world will lose money)
Another thing is that my car is serviced every 5000 miles with out exception. We have a fleet of cars that are treated in the same manner and are only kept for a couple of years. It would be easy for one of those cars to lose 40k miles and no one could tell.
If you take a look at my car's interior it is near immaculate and that is with only cleaning it once. This is because I don't allow eating or smoking in the car as I like to keep it in good condition as I spend a great deal of time there. I may also have to take customers out in it and when negotiating international contracts a smelly dirty car could kill the deal. (I mention international because if I screw it up my colleagues around the world will lose money)
Another thing is that my car is serviced every 5000 miles with out exception. We have a fleet of cars that are treated in the same manner and are only kept for a couple of years. It would be easy for one of those cars to lose 40k miles and no one could tell.
I like buying high mileage cars but buying on their condition. I now only do about 4000/5000 miles a year (walk to station, use OH car as our 'family' car) and that is split between 2 cars.
I bought the mondeo as a 'distressed' sale by garage owed money for work done. It was 5 years old with no service history other than what had just been done which was clutch and dual mass flywheel, 81k on the clock, no idea if genuine. Cost me just over £2000, sold as seen (but I knew the garage pretty well)
2 weeks ago, after nearly 5 years together, it finally got to 100k so my tiny amount of driving has changed a highish mileage car to a low, and dropping, mileage car. And it now has 5 years of recent service history. Probably still worth £1000. Bargain.
And my driving tends to be once a week shopping, once or twice a week a 20 mile round trip and maybe once every couple of months a bit of a motor way hack. I don't cane the engine but neither do I drive liek a frightened OAP.
I bought the mondeo as a 'distressed' sale by garage owed money for work done. It was 5 years old with no service history other than what had just been done which was clutch and dual mass flywheel, 81k on the clock, no idea if genuine. Cost me just over £2000, sold as seen (but I knew the garage pretty well)
2 weeks ago, after nearly 5 years together, it finally got to 100k so my tiny amount of driving has changed a highish mileage car to a low, and dropping, mileage car. And it now has 5 years of recent service history. Probably still worth £1000. Bargain.
And my driving tends to be once a week shopping, once or twice a week a 20 mile round trip and maybe once every couple of months a bit of a motor way hack. I don't cane the engine but neither do I drive liek a frightened OAP.
Donut said:
In true PH fasion people ignore the people who are in the motortrade for the numb nuts who talks crap in the boozer/on the internet.
Oh? Well I'd dispute the opinion of a lot of people in the motor trade until such people can clean their act up, stop clocking cars, quoting for work that's not needed, not replacing marked parts etc - all my own first hand experience. Basically STOP RIPPING PEOPLE OFF!I've personally had 3 cars that have been sold by myself to dealers (a 405, an MR2 and an Alfa Spider) which I've been contacted about with mileage queries. All been done between me parting with the vehicles and them being sold by said dealers. The MR2 was sold to a place in Bradford who halved the mileage - I was contacted by West Yorks Trading Standards. The place was well known to them for clocking. Went to court - loads of previous convictions - they got a £550 quid fine. So whoever it was on page 1 of this thread that said there's easier ways of making money then I'd like to know what it is.
Oh - and don't get me started on a well known - nay! notorious! - 4x4 dealing place in West Yorks. Turned up in court (again for West Yorks Trading Standards) along with about 20 other people who had been conned by said thug (wasn't me, was my parents suffering shiny car syndrome, I was a witness). We even had to get into Bradford court through the back door with a police escort due to intimidation.
Til traders clean their act up (which won't happen - there's too many mugs to rip off, too much money to be made, to many Rangie Sports to drive) then I think every "numb nuts" has a right to talk about it down the pub. I couldn't care less if "it's a minority" or whatever - I'll treat them all with the utmost suspicion.
Dog Star said:
Donut said:
In true PH fasion people ignore the people who are in the motortrade for the numb nuts who talks crap in the boozer/on the internet.
Oh? Well I'd dispute the opinion of a lot of people in the motor trade until such people can clean their act up, stop clocking cars, quoting for work that's not needed, not replacing marked parts etc - all my own first hand experience. Basically STOP RIPPING PEOPLE OFF!I've personally had 3 cars that have been sold by myself to dealers (a 405, an MR2 and an Alfa Spider) which I've been contacted about with mileage queries. All been done between me parting with the vehicles and them being sold by said dealers. The MR2 was sold to a place in Bradford who halved the mileage - I was contacted by West Yorks Trading Standards. The place was well known to them for clocking. Went to court - loads of previous convictions - they got a £550 quid fine. So whoever it was on page 1 of this thread that said there's easier ways of making money then I'd like to know what it is.
Oh - and don't get me started on a well known - nay! notorious! - 4x4 dealing place in West Yorks. Turned up in court (again for West Yorks Trading Standards) along with about 20 other people who had been conned by said thug (wasn't me, was my parents suffering shiny car syndrome, I was a witness). We even had to get into Bradford court through the back door with a police escort due to intimidation.
Til traders clean their act up (which won't happen - there's too many mugs to rip off, too much money to be made, to many Rangie Sports to drive) then I think every "numb nuts" has a right to talk about it down the pub. I couldn't care less if "it's a minority" or whatever - I'll treat them all with the utmost suspicion.
Donut said:
Dog Star said:
Donut said:
In true PH fasion people ignore the people who are in the motortrade for the numb nuts who talks crap in the boozer/on the internet.
Oh? Well I'd dispute the opinion of a lot of people in the motor trade until such people can clean their act up, stop clocking cars, quoting for work that's not needed, not replacing marked parts etc - all my own first hand experience. Basically STOP RIPPING PEOPLE OFF!I've personally had 3 cars that have been sold by myself to dealers (a 405, an MR2 and an Alfa Spider) which I've been contacted about with mileage queries. All been done between me parting with the vehicles and them being sold by said dealers. The MR2 was sold to a place in Bradford who halved the mileage - I was contacted by West Yorks Trading Standards. The place was well known to them for clocking. Went to court - loads of previous convictions - they got a £550 quid fine. So whoever it was on page 1 of this thread that said there's easier ways of making money then I'd like to know what it is.
Oh - and don't get me started on a well known - nay! notorious! - 4x4 dealing place in West Yorks. Turned up in court (again for West Yorks Trading Standards) along with about 20 other people who had been conned by said thug (wasn't me, was my parents suffering shiny car syndrome, I was a witness). We even had to get into Bradford court through the back door with a police escort due to intimidation.
Til traders clean their act up (which won't happen - there's too many mugs to rip off, too much money to be made, to many Rangie Sports to drive) then I think every "numb nuts" has a right to talk about it down the pub. I couldn't care less if "it's a minority" or whatever - I'll treat them all with the utmost suspicion.
Efbe said:
Donut said:
Dog Star said:
Donut said:
In true PH fasion people ignore the people who are in the motortrade for the numb nuts who talks crap in the boozer/on the internet.
Oh? Well I'd dispute the opinion of a lot of people in the motor trade until such people can clean their act up, stop clocking cars, quoting for work that's not needed, not replacing marked parts etc - all my own first hand experience. Basically STOP RIPPING PEOPLE OFF!I've personally had 3 cars that have been sold by myself to dealers (a 405, an MR2 and an Alfa Spider) which I've been contacted about with mileage queries. All been done between me parting with the vehicles and them being sold by said dealers. The MR2 was sold to a place in Bradford who halved the mileage - I was contacted by West Yorks Trading Standards. The place was well known to them for clocking. Went to court - loads of previous convictions - they got a £550 quid fine. So whoever it was on page 1 of this thread that said there's easier ways of making money then I'd like to know what it is.
Oh - and don't get me started on a well known - nay! notorious! - 4x4 dealing place in West Yorks. Turned up in court (again for West Yorks Trading Standards) along with about 20 other people who had been conned by said thug (wasn't me, was my parents suffering shiny car syndrome, I was a witness). We even had to get into Bradford court through the back door with a police escort due to intimidation.
Til traders clean their act up (which won't happen - there's too many mugs to rip off, too much money to be made, to many Rangie Sports to drive) then I think every "numb nuts" has a right to talk about it down the pub. I couldn't care less if "it's a minority" or whatever - I'll treat them all with the utmost suspicion.
Dog Star said:
Donut said:
In true PH fasion people ignore the people who are in the motortrade for the numb nuts who talks crap in the boozer/on the internet.
Oh? Well I'd dispute the opinion of a lot of people in the motor trade until such people can clean their act up, stop clocking cars, quoting for work that's not needed, not replacing marked parts etc - all my own first hand experience. Basically STOP RIPPING PEOPLE OFF!I've personally had 3 cars that have been sold by myself to dealers (a 405, an MR2 and an Alfa Spider) which I've been contacted about with mileage queries. All been done between me parting with the vehicles and them being sold by said dealers. The MR2 was sold to a place in Bradford who halved the mileage - I was contacted by West Yorks Trading Standards. The place was well known to them for clocking. Went to court - loads of previous convictions - they got a £550 quid fine. So whoever it was on page 1 of this thread that said there's easier ways of making money then I'd like to know what it is.
Oh - and don't get me started on a well known - nay! notorious! - 4x4 dealing place in West Yorks. Turned up in court (again for West Yorks Trading Standards) along with about 20 other people who had been conned by said thug (wasn't me, was my parents suffering shiny car syndrome, I was a witness). We even had to get into Bradford court through the back door with a police escort due to intimidation.
Til traders clean their act up (which won't happen - there's too many mugs to rip off, too much money to be made, to many Rangie Sports to drive) then I think every "numb nuts" has a right to talk about it down the pub. I couldn't care less if "it's a minority" or whatever - I'll treat them all with the utmost suspicion.
For ever one dealer like the above, there are 100 who do a good job.
Donut said:
Dog Star said:
Donut said:
In true PH fasion people ignore the people who are in the motortrade for the numb nuts who talks crap in the boozer/on the internet.
Oh? Well I'd dispute the opinion of a lot of people in the motor trade until such people can clean their act up, stop clocking cars, quoting for work that's not needed, not replacing marked parts etc - all my own first hand experience. Basically STOP RIPPING PEOPLE OFF!I've personally had 3 cars that have been sold by myself to dealers (a 405, an MR2 and an Alfa Spider) which I've been contacted about with mileage queries. All been done between me parting with the vehicles and them being sold by said dealers. The MR2 was sold to a place in Bradford who halved the mileage - I was contacted by West Yorks Trading Standards. The place was well known to them for clocking. Went to court - loads of previous convictions - they got a £550 quid fine. So whoever it was on page 1 of this thread that said there's easier ways of making money then I'd like to know what it is.
Oh - and don't get me started on a well known - nay! notorious! - 4x4 dealing place in West Yorks. Turned up in court (again for West Yorks Trading Standards) along with about 20 other people who had been conned by said thug (wasn't me, was my parents suffering shiny car syndrome, I was a witness). We even had to get into Bradford court through the back door with a police escort due to intimidation.
Til traders clean their act up (which won't happen - there's too many mugs to rip off, too much money to be made, to many Rangie Sports to drive) then I think every "numb nuts" has a right to talk about it down the pub. I couldn't care less if "it's a minority" or whatever - I'll treat them all with the utmost suspicion.
POORCARDEALER said:
Sensionalist rubbish.
For ever one dealer like the above, there are 100 who do a good job.
Is it? I don't think there is anything "sensational" about it.For ever one dealer like the above, there are 100 who do a good job.
I don't agree with your 1 in 100, but I do agree (as I stated above) that it's a minority. However there's little doubt that they are screwing things up good and proper - for the decent trader and consumer alike. But how do you know which is which?
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