E46 M3 vs 996 911
Discussion
Cemesis said:
Estimated running costs for 10-12,000 miles including fuel insurance and everything is about £4,000 a year.
More than that:Fuel at 22mpg will be £3200
Insurance is £800
VED is £240 - £435 depending on age
Set of tyres £1000
Major service £600
This assumes no other faults etc which is unlikley on a 8 to 10 year old M3.
I've had 2 996s and 2 E46 M3s so speak from experience.
Simple answer - if you've never had a Porsche then buy one - the itch will always be there, so might as well scratch early. Just go in with your eyes open on running costs (based in my experience the M3 is far cheaper and reliable but people always debate this point).
Once you've done the Porsche thing go and buy the M3 - it's more fun and the power delivery after 4k revs will have you grinning all the time (the Porsche power delivery is more linear and smooth).
Simple answer - if you've never had a Porsche then buy one - the itch will always be there, so might as well scratch early. Just go in with your eyes open on running costs (based in my experience the M3 is far cheaper and reliable but people always debate this point).
Once you've done the Porsche thing go and buy the M3 - it's more fun and the power delivery after 4k revs will have you grinning all the time (the Porsche power delivery is more linear and smooth).
I was in a similar position to the OP a few months ago.
Looking at £10k M3's and then noticed that the cheaper 996's were not a great deal more money so started looking at 996's, I'd have rather had a 996 than a standard M3 quite possibly because I'd already had a couple of M3's.
After a month or two of looking through the classifieds I'd decided that if I was going for a 996 it would have to be a face lift with sensible millage and good history and my budget had now almost doubled to around £20k
But I then noticed the M3 CSL, asked about a car that a dealer had on the CSL section of the forum and was offered another by a PH's member for very little more than I was looking at spending on a 996 C2. There was no contest for me CSL won.
Although I do still fancy a GT3's but thats going to be a while away.
Looking at £10k M3's and then noticed that the cheaper 996's were not a great deal more money so started looking at 996's, I'd have rather had a 996 than a standard M3 quite possibly because I'd already had a couple of M3's.
After a month or two of looking through the classifieds I'd decided that if I was going for a 996 it would have to be a face lift with sensible millage and good history and my budget had now almost doubled to around £20k
But I then noticed the M3 CSL, asked about a car that a dealer had on the CSL section of the forum and was offered another by a PH's member for very little more than I was looking at spending on a 996 C2. There was no contest for me CSL won.
Although I do still fancy a GT3's but thats going to be a while away.
djohnson said:
I'm going back a few years here however I had a E46 M3 which I replaced with a 996 C4S. Key thoughts are:
- The 911 was much less reliable and cost me much more in maintenance.
- The 911 was an amazing drive on a twisty road, the M3 was a much more rounded car and a better motorway cruiser, it was also very good on a twisty road but not 911 good.
- The 911 attracted more attention (both good and bad).
- I found the ride in my 911 (996 C4S) a bit firm for everyday use.
- The M3 felt like a more quality product in terms of fit and finish.
- The M3 had 4 seats and a useable boot.
- Whilst they’re similar on paper I still maintain that my M3 was the faster straight line car.
- The 911 felt like more of an event to drive.
Heart over head it’d be a 911. Head over heart an M3. (Although I went via a M6 I’m back in a 997 turbo at the moment and loving it. M-cars are amazing but 911s get under your skin).
+1 Couldn't have put it better. - The 911 was much less reliable and cost me much more in maintenance.
- The 911 was an amazing drive on a twisty road, the M3 was a much more rounded car and a better motorway cruiser, it was also very good on a twisty road but not 911 good.
- The 911 attracted more attention (both good and bad).
- I found the ride in my 911 (996 C4S) a bit firm for everyday use.
- The M3 felt like a more quality product in terms of fit and finish.
- The M3 had 4 seats and a useable boot.
- Whilst they’re similar on paper I still maintain that my M3 was the faster straight line car.
- The 911 felt like more of an event to drive.
Heart over head it’d be a 911. Head over heart an M3. (Although I went via a M6 I’m back in a 997 turbo at the moment and loving it. M-cars are amazing but 911s get under your skin).
On the insurance front, if you can get it for £800 you are doing well. I got my 996 C4S when I was 26 and it cost me £1200 to insure it, that was with 6 years ncb, fully comp, 12k miles a year and two female named drivers. It was with direct line, and my postcode is pretty reasonable.
As noted above, make sure the running costs are budgeted for, mine cost a fair whack when it went in for a routine major service and came out with new discs, pads and a new tyre on each corner.
Lastly - my c4s was far from £10k at the time and it still had a few niggles, and if it was my money you will get a better car in respect to reliability / age in the £12k M3 than you will a £10 -12k 996.
Edited by Cub911 on Monday 31st January 10:04
wackojacko said:
I'm going to make a post that'll
be un popular but extremely obvious (to me)
8k will get you a s
t E46 so go for the mother of all E36 's tuned or what ever or a genuine minter for 8k it'll hold it's money far better, or go for an Early boxster S Ignore all the tts that say it's only because you can't afford a 911! It's a cracking motor with a fantastic chassis offering a great driving experience.
Or a 3.0 Z4 I know these may not be to your criteria but hey ..... Give them a second thought
I am not interested in E36's what so ever. I never really thought about boxters but, 2 seats is fine because I have other cars. I may be test drive one of them as well.be un popular but extremely obvious (to me)
8k will get you a s
t E46 so go for the mother of all E36 's tuned or what ever or a genuine minter for 8k it'll hold it's money far better, or go for an Early boxster S Ignore all the tts that say it's only because you can't afford a 911! It's a cracking motor with a fantastic chassis offering a great driving experience.Or a 3.0 Z4 I know these may not be to your criteria but hey ..... Give them a second thought
djohnson said:
I'm going back a few years here however I had a E46 M3 which I replaced with a 996 C4S. Key thoughts are:
- The 911 was much less reliable and cost me much more in maintenance.
- The 911 was an amazing drive on a twisty road, the M3 was a much more rounded car and a better motorway cruiser, it was also very good on a twisty road but not 911 good.
- The 911 attracted more attention (both good and bad).
- I found the ride in my 911 (996 C4S) a bit firm for everyday use.
- The M3 felt like a more quality product in terms of fit and finish.
- The M3 had 4 seats and a useable boot.
- Whilst they’re similar on paper I still maintain that my M3 was the faster straight line car.
- The 911 felt like more of an event to drive.
Heart over head it’d be a 911. Head over heart an M3. (Although I went via a M6 I’m back in a 997 turbo at the moment and loving it. M-cars are amazing but 911s get under your skin).
Thanks for you informed opinion. - The 911 was much less reliable and cost me much more in maintenance.
- The 911 was an amazing drive on a twisty road, the M3 was a much more rounded car and a better motorway cruiser, it was also very good on a twisty road but not 911 good.
- The 911 attracted more attention (both good and bad).
- I found the ride in my 911 (996 C4S) a bit firm for everyday use.
- The M3 felt like a more quality product in terms of fit and finish.
- The M3 had 4 seats and a useable boot.
- Whilst they’re similar on paper I still maintain that my M3 was the faster straight line car.
- The 911 felt like more of an event to drive.
Heart over head it’d be a 911. Head over heart an M3. (Although I went via a M6 I’m back in a 997 turbo at the moment and loving it. M-cars are amazing but 911s get under your skin).
Welshbeef said:
E46 m3's range from £7.5k up to £25k and your budgeting £8k - to get a good one.... I cannot square that circle.
Worn shocks worn bushes worn engine mounts clutch brake discs brake calipers radiator air con condensor brake pipe corrosion gearbox towards the end of it's life timing chain towards the end of it's life vanos towards the end of it's life exhaust wheel bearings gear linkages wiper motor wear fuel filler pipe chaffing stone chips multiple owners cheap tyres in need of a big service.
Then again you could be lucky but buying at the bottom of the Market you have to have an open mind to potential costs in the very near future.
The old saying buy cheap buy twice is very true.
As another said why not buy a totally mint e36 m3 evo you will not lose a penny on it plus it will not ruin you with costs for wear and tear or faults.
Yes I agree with the buy cheap pay twice sentiment. Although you would be surprised with some of the stonking deals I have found over the last few years, by searching the internet, having cash waiting and have been willing to travel to the other side of the country. Worn shocks worn bushes worn engine mounts clutch brake discs brake calipers radiator air con condensor brake pipe corrosion gearbox towards the end of it's life timing chain towards the end of it's life vanos towards the end of it's life exhaust wheel bearings gear linkages wiper motor wear fuel filler pipe chaffing stone chips multiple owners cheap tyres in need of a big service.
Then again you could be lucky but buying at the bottom of the Market you have to have an open mind to potential costs in the very near future.
The old saying buy cheap buy twice is very true.
As another said why not buy a totally mint e36 m3 evo you will not lose a penny on it plus it will not ruin you with costs for wear and tear or faults.
It's not impossible to get a car worth £13000 advertised for £11k for a quick sale and the buyer eventually taking £10k cash if, you come the same day.
I had 3 E46 M3's, and loved them all, 2 E36 before them. The second E46 was a convertible, which was also a great car, the last one an SMG, which I never had one bit of bother with over the year I had it! Then I bought a 2002 996 C4S. Felt great on the bends and got plenty of looks! It also sounded a lot better than the M3 as it had Porsche Sports Exhausts. If I'm honest I never really "got into" the Porsche. There were a few nigly things went wrong early in ownership which kinda disheartened me. I never expected the things that went wrong, to go wrong on such a car, but they did. Sure I could have had issues with the M3's I owned, which would have left me disheartened with the M3, but I never had one issue, and I've had all my cars on track!! Maybe, unfortunately, I was unlucky with the C4S? It wasn't a dog either. At £27,500 in 2009 it was well looked after, and had a full and comprehensive main dealer history too!
It depends what you're looking for. If it's the status, there'll be more folk that widen their eyes when you say you drive a Porsche 911 rather than a BMW M3. After all it's "just" a BMW, isn't it? Lol. I got rid of the C4S and bought a year old E92 M3. Folk still thought the Porsche was "flashier", but I bought the M3 on merit, and for warranty, which is another thing to consider depending on your budget and how long you plan to keep your new purchase. The guy who bought one of my old E46's is selling it right now for £8500. It's a 2001, Phoenix Yellow, 72k miles, and is immaculate. When I bought it it had already been recalled for the big end shells to be replaced (not the oil pump as some folk tell you!). The car is absolutely immaculate with every extra!! It is a bargain in my opinion, so they do come up, but not that often.
At your budget level, I would buy a nice, standard E46 M3. Odds are better for reliability and lesser running costs. But at that age I would be buying one with a manual gearbox, to eliminate the risk of any problems with the hydraulic system attached to the gearbox, unless you find one with receipts to verify it's all in order. Maybe a convertible? In my experience they tend to be looked after slightly better. And at your budget, an E46 M3 will feel more modern and better built than a 996.
It depends what you're looking for. If it's the status, there'll be more folk that widen their eyes when you say you drive a Porsche 911 rather than a BMW M3. After all it's "just" a BMW, isn't it? Lol. I got rid of the C4S and bought a year old E92 M3. Folk still thought the Porsche was "flashier", but I bought the M3 on merit, and for warranty, which is another thing to consider depending on your budget and how long you plan to keep your new purchase. The guy who bought one of my old E46's is selling it right now for £8500. It's a 2001, Phoenix Yellow, 72k miles, and is immaculate. When I bought it it had already been recalled for the big end shells to be replaced (not the oil pump as some folk tell you!). The car is absolutely immaculate with every extra!! It is a bargain in my opinion, so they do come up, but not that often.
At your budget level, I would buy a nice, standard E46 M3. Odds are better for reliability and lesser running costs. But at that age I would be buying one with a manual gearbox, to eliminate the risk of any problems with the hydraulic system attached to the gearbox, unless you find one with receipts to verify it's all in order. Maybe a convertible? In my experience they tend to be looked after slightly better. And at your budget, an E46 M3 will feel more modern and better built than a 996.
I see from your profile that you're in Scotland.
Given that you've got some of the best roads in Britain up there, I'd say stretch the budget and go for a 996 - only I'd also recommend a C4 rather than C2, as I guess those roads can often be wet.
As a letfield choice, how about an Audi S4 (B6 variant)? It won't have the 'pure driving involvement' of the other two, but, point to point, over mixed road conditions, it may be faster than the other two. Also, £11k seems to get a good low(ish) mileage example.
Given that you've got some of the best roads in Britain up there, I'd say stretch the budget and go for a 996 - only I'd also recommend a C4 rather than C2, as I guess those roads can often be wet.
As a letfield choice, how about an Audi S4 (B6 variant)? It won't have the 'pure driving involvement' of the other two, but, point to point, over mixed road conditions, it may be faster than the other two. Also, £11k seems to get a good low(ish) mileage example.
TTwiggy said:
I see from your profile that you're in Scotland.
Given that you've got some of the best roads in Britain up there, I'd say stretch the budget and go for a 996 - only I'd also recommend a C4 rather than C2, as I guess those roads can often be wet.
As a letfield choice, how about an Audi S4 (B6 variant)? It won't have the 'pure driving involvement' of the other two, but, point to point, over mixed road conditions, it may be faster than the other two. Also, £11k seems to get a good low(ish) mileage example.
The S4 is a pretty good car too, but from what I've head they are pretty horrendous on fuel! Probably even sorer on the pocket now, rather than the 2 years ago when a couple of mates owned them.Given that you've got some of the best roads in Britain up there, I'd say stretch the budget and go for a 996 - only I'd also recommend a C4 rather than C2, as I guess those roads can often be wet.
As a letfield choice, how about an Audi S4 (B6 variant)? It won't have the 'pure driving involvement' of the other two, but, point to point, over mixed road conditions, it may be faster than the other two. Also, £11k seems to get a good low(ish) mileage example.
TTwiggy said:
I see from your profile that you're in Scotland.
Given that you've got some of the best roads in Britain up there, I'd say stretch the budget and go for a 996 - only I'd also recommend a C4 rather than C2, as I guess those roads can often be wet.
As a letfield choice, how about an Audi S4 (B6 variant)? It won't have the 'pure driving involvement' of the other two, but, point to point, over mixed road conditions, it may be faster than the other two. Also, £11k seems to get a good low(ish) mileage example.
Only Audi I would be interested in would be a B7 RS4 which are £20k. Also if I was spending £20k, it would be on a R34 GTR.Given that you've got some of the best roads in Britain up there, I'd say stretch the budget and go for a 996 - only I'd also recommend a C4 rather than C2, as I guess those roads can often be wet.
As a letfield choice, how about an Audi S4 (B6 variant)? It won't have the 'pure driving involvement' of the other two, but, point to point, over mixed road conditions, it may be faster than the other two. Also, £11k seems to get a good low(ish) mileage example.
WEHGuy said:
Only Audi I would be interested in would be a B7 RS4 which are £20k
^^ Same problem as your M3 though mate, a £20k B7 RS4 might be a bit tatty.Mint B5 RS4, complete with added boooooooooost?!
EDIT: I looked into the running costs a few months ago of B6 S4 Cab against a B7 RS4 saloon and the costs are so similar, it's not really worth getting an S4 over the RS4. Opinion, not fact though...
Edited by FamilyDub on Monday 31st January 14:50
If it were me I'd spend the 12k on the M3. 10k will only really get you a pretty leggy one to be honest. As for the Porsche, I'd love one however for 12k again it's going to be a bit long in the tooth. For the same money you'll get a newer, lower milage M3. If you were to up your budget then I'd go for the Porsche.
As for running costs, no idea what the Porsche would cost you, but the M3 is relatively cheap for what it is.
As for running costs, no idea what the Porsche would cost you, but the M3 is relatively cheap for what it is.
I haven't driven either of these.. but, if your long term plan is to get behind the wheel of an F430.. then i'd look at owning both..
Buy the M3 now and spend 12k getting a decent one, then when the time comes to change you'll prob have a bigger budget and might be able to go for a 997...
Buy the M3 now and spend 12k getting a decent one, then when the time comes to change you'll prob have a bigger budget and might be able to go for a 997...
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