Escort Cosworth - Focus RS
Discussion
SidewaysSi said:
Love Integrales - they are a lot more fun than any Focus, that's for sure!
I say this without any hesitation whatsoever, the 'grale is the greatest road car I've ever driven. But similar characteristics are readily available in lots of 80s and 90s homologation specials. E30 M3, Celica GT-4, both Sierra and Escort Cossies.Strangely enough, if God forbid it ever got stolen or written off, I'd probably jump into a Mk2 FRS as it seems to offer something vaguely comparable in a modern hassle-free package. Buying a classic is a minefield especially these days when all sorts of junk is overpriced: I bought my car after pestering the owner for 8 years and finally persuading him to sell it to me, then I spent the value of the car again to refresh it to my own standards and preferences. Not sure I'd want to go through that again. (Nor would he
)Harris_I said:
SidewaysSi said:
Love Integrales - they are a lot more fun than any Focus, that's for sure!
I say this without any hesitation whatsoever, the 'grale is the greatest road car I've ever driven. But similar characteristics are readily available in lots of 80s and 90s homologation specials. E30 M3, Celica GT-4, both Sierra and Escort Cossies.Strangely enough, if God forbid it ever got stolen or written off, I'd probably jump into a Mk2 FRS as it seems to offer something vaguely comparable in a modern hassle-free package. Buying a classic is a minefield especially these days when all sorts of junk is overpriced: I bought my car after pestering the owner for 8 years and finally persuading him to sell it to me, then I spent the value of the car again to refresh it to my own standards and preferences. Not sure I'd want to go through that again. (Nor would he
)In general, older cars certainly do make modern stuff seem dull and boring in comparison. Particularly on road.
SidewaysSi said:
Harris_I said:
Ahbefive said:
To suggest that it has better steering
Steering is subjective because it also involves "feel". I personally value the feel from old fashioned hydraulic steering and the physical involvement a slower rack forces on the driver. Other than Lotus and Caterham/derivatives I don't think I've driven one modern high performance car with a steering I enjoyed.So whilst modern cars may be empirically better in lots of metrics related to steering, qualitatively I still prefer the steering of cars from the 80s, 90s and early 2000s.
Love Integrales - they are a lot more fun than any Focus, that's for sure!
I would love a nitro blue RS, they look brilliant in the metal. The escort cosworth was one of those dream cars as a kid but it wouldn't really suit being used everyday and it's not much fun keeping a car as a garage ornament, better having something to use frequently.
I will stick with my WRX STI for now.
I will stick with my WRX STI for now.
lewis87 said:
I would love a nitro blue RS, they look brilliant in the metal. The escort cosworth was one of those dream cars as a kid but it wouldn't really suit being used everyday and it's not much fun keeping a car as a garage ornament, better having something to use frequently.
I will stick with my WRX STI for now.
Cosworth would be perfectly fine as a daily. I will stick with my WRX STI for now.
HumanDoing said:
Cosworth would be perfectly fine as a daily.
Not a chance unless you factor in and swallow regular rebuilds as part of the general maintenance costs. The YB engine was designed for motorsport essentially and has never been anyone's idea of robust. Piston ring wear, cylinder bore wear, camshaft failure, valve stem seal wear, sensor failure, wiring loom deterioration, head gasket failure and spun shells are all fairly common on Cosworth engines under daily use. That's before even mentioning the fragility of the MT75 transmissions when dealing with a tuned engine. Yes there are plenty of mildly tuned 300+ hp Cosworths around, but they're periodically rebuilt at 20-30,000 miles, and the rebuild frequency increases in a linear fashion alongside how many ponies it's putting out.I love the Cosworth engine, it's one of my favourites in fact, but there's a very good reason people don't run them as daily drivers any longer. Plenty ran them all day everyday when new cars obviously, but 20+ years have passed by since then and they're far more suited to use as a weekend/fair weather toy.
The "jump in, start up and drive" element of modern motoring that we take for granted now would clash terribly with trying to run a Cosworth every day. I tried it with an ST185 Celica GT4 once, and although the car was great when it worked, the headaches became too strong when trying to use it as my only car and I had to get rid. Similarly to a Cosworth, if I'd have bought the Celica, rebuilt the engine and drivetrain then used it sparingly I may even still have it now, but it was too impractical to use and rely on every day.
Rat_Fink_67 said:
HumanDoing said:
Cosworth would be perfectly fine as a daily.
Not a chance unless you factor in and swallow regular rebuilds as part of the general maintenance costs. The YB engine was designed for motorsport essentially and has never been anyone's idea of robust. Piston ring wear, cylinder bore wear, camshaft failure, valve stem seal wear, sensor failure, wiring loom deterioration, head gasket failure and spun shells are all fairly common on Cosworth engines under daily use. That's before even mentioning the fragility of the MT75 transmissions when dealing with a tuned engine. Yes there are plenty of mildly tuned 300+ hp Cosworths around, but they're periodically rebuilt at 20-30,000 miles, and the rebuild frequency increases in a linear fashion alongside how many ponies it's putting out.I love the Cosworth engine, it's one of my favourites in fact, but there's a very good reason people don't run them as daily drivers any longer. Plenty ran them all day everyday when new cars obviously, but 20+ years have passed by since then and they're far more suited to use as a weekend/fair weather toy.
The "jump in, start up and drive" element of modern motoring that we take for granted now would clash terribly with trying to run a Cosworth every day. I tried it with an ST185 Celica GT4 once, and although the car was great when it worked, the headaches became too strong when trying to use it as my only car and I had to get rid. Similarly to a Cosworth, if I'd have bought the Celica, rebuilt the engine and drivetrain then used it sparingly I may even still have it now, but it was too impractical to use and rely on every day.
Rat_Fink_67 said:
Not a chance unless you factor in and swallow regular rebuilds as part of the general maintenance costs. The YB engine was designed for motorsport essentially and has never been anyone's idea of robust. Piston ring wear, cylinder bore wear, camshaft failure, valve stem seal wear, sensor failure, wiring loom deterioration, head gasket failure and spun shells are all fairly common on Cosworth engines under daily use. That's before even mentioning the fragility of the MT75 transmissions when dealing with a tuned engine. Yes there are plenty of mildly tuned 300+ hp Cosworths around, but they're periodically rebuilt at 20-30,000 miles, and the rebuild frequency increases in a linear fashion alongside how many ponies it's putting out.
I love the Cosworth engine, it's one of my favourites in fact, but there's a very good reason people don't run them as daily drivers any longer. Plenty ran them all day everyday when new cars obviously, but 20+ years have passed by since then and they're far more suited to use as a weekend/fair weather toy.
The "jump in, start up and drive" element of modern motoring that we take for granted now would clash terribly with trying to run a Cosworth every day. I tried it with an ST185 Celica GT4 once, and although the car was great when it worked, the headaches became too strong when trying to use it as my only car and I had to get rid. Similarly to a Cosworth, if I'd have bought the Celica, rebuilt the engine and drivetrain then used it sparingly I may even still have it now, but it was too impractical to use and rely on every day.
I have to disagree I rebuilt my cosworth engine once & then happily added another 70k to the car after that before selling it on, so it depends on how well it's been built.I love the Cosworth engine, it's one of my favourites in fact, but there's a very good reason people don't run them as daily drivers any longer. Plenty ran them all day everyday when new cars obviously, but 20+ years have passed by since then and they're far more suited to use as a weekend/fair weather toy.
The "jump in, start up and drive" element of modern motoring that we take for granted now would clash terribly with trying to run a Cosworth every day. I tried it with an ST185 Celica GT4 once, and although the car was great when it worked, the headaches became too strong when trying to use it as my only car and I had to get rid. Similarly to a Cosworth, if I'd have bought the Celica, rebuilt the engine and drivetrain then used it sparingly I may even still have it now, but it was too impractical to use and rely on every day.
ZX10R NIN said:
I have to disagree I rebuilt my cosworth engine once & then happily added another 70k to the car after that before selling it on, so it depends on how well it's been built.
Absolutely, the quality of the parts used, how well it was built, state of tune and how hard it gets driven are all variable factors that have a massive effect on the durability. I'm just going off my own experience however, both at work and in fast Ford circles. There will always be exceptions, but there's no way I'd commit to having something like a Sierra or Escort Cosworth as my sole means of transport. Rat_Fink_67 said:
ZX10R NIN said:
I have to disagree I rebuilt my cosworth engine once & then happily added another 70k to the car after that before selling it on, so it depends on how well it's been built.
Absolutely, the quality of the parts used, how well it was built, state of tune and how hard it gets driven are all variable factors that have a massive effect on the durability. I'm just going off my own experience however, both at work and in fast Ford circles. There will always be exceptions, but there's no way I'd commit to having something like a Sierra or Escort Cosworth as my sole means of transport. Rat_Fink_67 said:
there's no way I'd commit to having something like a Sierra or Escort Cosworth as my sole means of transport.
Even if any reliability issues weren't a concern I reckon it's far more likely it would get stolen nowadays given the demand / prices / ability to strip for parts 
Especially if it got parked in / around the same location day in day out.A couple of years ago I remember reading on a forum about a lad who bought a Sapphire Cosworth. Decided to use it as a daily and the car itself used to get parked round the side of the building with the other staff cars. He only had it 3 weeks before it got stolen from where he worked. The working theory from the Police was that the car had been clocked by the person or group that wanted to steal it, they made note of where it got parked on a regular basis, and one day just came back and helped themselves
nickfrog said:
Thanks a lot for sharing such superb engineering insight, clearly based on solid first hand experience of the idiosyncratic intricacies of the model in question. This is what PH should be about rather than "opinions" based on precisely nothing and not supported by any sane rationale.
Frog you keep telling people that they don't have 'informed opinions' - ironically without knowing what other people's opinions are actually based on. You appear to have decided that nobody can possibly like an RS (or indeed prefer an alternative car e.g. the Cosworth) without being ignorant of all the facts. A bit like a Trump supporter who forever demands 'more proof' when bang to rights in a debate, no matter how much proof is given, rather than actually concede a point. AlexRS2782 said:
Even if any reliability issues weren't a concern I reckon it's far more likely it would get stolen nowadays given the demand / prices / ability to strip for parts Especially if it got parked in / around the same location day in day out.
A couple of years ago I remember reading on a forum about a lad who bought a Sapphire Cosworth. Decided to use it as a daily and the car itself used to get parked round the side of the building with the other staff cars. He only had it 3 weeks before it got stolen from where he worked. The working theory from the Police was that the car had been clocked by the person or group that wanted to steal it, they made note of where it got parked on a regular basis, and one day just came back and helped themselves
Good point yeah. I'm sure it'd only be a matter of time before some scrote at least attempted to have it away, especially with a lot of workplaces insistent on off-site parking nowadays too. Especially if it got parked in / around the same location day in day out.A couple of years ago I remember reading on a forum about a lad who bought a Sapphire Cosworth. Decided to use it as a daily and the car itself used to get parked round the side of the building with the other staff cars. He only had it 3 weeks before it got stolen from where he worked. The working theory from the Police was that the car had been clocked by the person or group that wanted to steal it, they made note of where it got parked on a regular basis, and one day just came back and helped themselves
HumanDoing said:
Frog you keep telling people that they don't have 'informed opinions' - ironically without knowing what other people's opinions are actually based on. You appear to have decided that nobody can possibly like an RS (or indeed prefer an alternative car e.g. the Cosworth) without being ignorant of all the facts.
Ryan, you can call me Nick if you like.Nah, I never said or inferred such a thing (if I understood you well), that's a straw man argument again. All I said is that your "opinion" of a car that you haven't driven is pretty pointless compared to the opinion of people who have owned it, driven it and tracked it, so that they could explore the limits of its performance, lat grip and traction.
For the record, I don't like the RS as it doesn't fit my needs but I can appreciate its many talents impartially as I have driven it (unlike you) on the road and been "around" it several times on track (both in front and behind!).
I still haven't seen any sane rationale from you to support your "views". Feel free to engage positively in a conversation by sharing your thought process if you have any.
Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 21st October 16:25
nickfrog said:
Ryan, you can call me Nick if you like.
Nah, I never said or inferred such a thing (if I understood you well), that's a straw man argument again. All I said is that your "opinion" of a car that you haven't driven is pretty pointless compared to the opinion of people who have owned it, driven it and tracked it, so that they could explore the limits of its performance, lat grip and traction.
For the record, I don't like the RS as it doesn't fit my needs but I can appreciate its many talents impartially as I have driven it (unlike you) on the road and been "around" it several times on track (both in front and behind!).
I still haven't seen any sane rationale from you to support your "views". Feel free to engage positively in a conversation by sharing your thought process if you have any.
I can call you Nick? Oh thanks, great are we going to be mates now after you've repeatedly insulted me and my wife as well as linking to other posts I've made attempting to whip up vitriol against me? People have feelings Frog. Your pompous, systematic abuse has consequences. Nah, I never said or inferred such a thing (if I understood you well), that's a straw man argument again. All I said is that your "opinion" of a car that you haven't driven is pretty pointless compared to the opinion of people who have owned it, driven it and tracked it, so that they could explore the limits of its performance, lat grip and traction.
For the record, I don't like the RS as it doesn't fit my needs but I can appreciate its many talents impartially as I have driven it (unlike you) on the road and been "around" it several times on track (both in front and behind!).
I still haven't seen any sane rationale from you to support your "views". Feel free to engage positively in a conversation by sharing your thought process if you have any.
Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 21st October 16:25
HumanDoing said:
I can call you Nick? Oh thanks, great are we going to be mates now after you've repeatedly insulted me and my wife as well as linking to other posts I've made attempting to whip up vitriol against me? People have feelings Frog. Your pompous, systematic abuse has consequences.
Cry me a river, do you ever just, stop? You know you can stop replying right? Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff