JLR on 3 day week
Discussion
craigjm said:
Yes the X and Stype came first as diesel but putting a diesel in the XJ was the big step becasue that was the jewel in the crown and the other two were not historic models by a long shot of the imagination.
Digga snr had the first customer V8 petrol from Colliers in Sutton/Erdington. The first actual one they got went to their DP.It was a s
t car, it's US (Lincoln) origins, barely disguised; cheap interior and shocking handling, although ride was okay. I only drove it once, it was a real disappointment. The face lifted V8 he had next was a huge improvement, but too late for the firm, although the S Type was pretty popular.Digga said:
Digga snr had the first customer V8 petrol from Colliers in Sutton/Erdington. The first actual one they got went to their DP.
It was a st car, it's US (Lincoln) origins, barely disguised; cheap interior and shocking handling, although ride was okay. I only drove it once, it was a real disappointment. The face lifted V8 he had next was a huge improvement, but too late for the firm, although the S Type was pretty popular.
The early S-Type was a very poor car. That 5 speed Ford automatic was pitiful, the interior was ugly and poor quality, and it didn't ride or handle particularly well. It came good in the end, but all the Ford era models were a lost generation of Jaguars really. It was a s
t car, it's US (Lincoln) origins, barely disguised; cheap interior and shocking handling, although ride was okay. I only drove it once, it was a real disappointment. The face lifted V8 he had next was a huge improvement, but too late for the firm, although the S Type was pretty popular.euphoricmess said:
The problem JLR have is they are priced high and depreciate a lot so I'm a era where PCP is king they are often not price competitive
Jaguar maybe, RR product is always amongst the slowest depreciating cars on the market.Edited by euphoricmess on Sunday 9th December 15:17
Pintofbest said:
euphoricmess said:
The problem JLR have is they are priced high and depreciate a lot so I'm a era where PCP is king they are often not price competitive
Jaguar maybe, RR product is always amongst the slowest depreciating cars on the market.Edited by euphoricmess on Sunday 9th December 15:17
FFRR and RRS seem to depreciate like stones.
From an expensive sales point the actual £ loss is rather high.
Wills2 said:
It must be their ROW sales that are hurting them, looking at the SMMT YTD data they are the 6th best selling in the UK (JLR combined) at around 110,000 units around 3% down on last year given the issues with WLTP and diesel in general that's not bad, Audi are down 16% as an example.
The demand from China which was the biggest market has halved because of taxation and tariff changes WonkeyDonkey said:
Sorry but this is just bks.
In what way would you get 'better' staff?
One word. Productivity.ks.In what way would you get 'better' staff?
Two words. Work Ethic.
The UK are largely s
t compared to everywhere else.I'm sat here whilst our Polish cleaner is cleaning the house. She does the house in 3 hours compared to 4.5 hours like our last, British, cleaner. She also charges £12/hr instead of £15/hr.
She's never late, never scrimps on time, is actually cleaning at the start time rather than just arriving 5-10mins late, then spending 5-10 mins getting her stuff together - at the end of her time, she finishes whatever task she was doing at the finish time, then starts clearing/packing up - the Brit was out of the door at her allowed finish time.
She has just been telling me that she gets up at 3am and starts cleaning at 3.30. She finishes her cleaning jobs at 2pm. Heads home for 2 hours sleep, then works in a warehouse packing from 5 til 10.
That attitude is standard for Eastern Europeans.
Edited by Ares on Monday 10th December 10:20
Taaaaang said:
Is this true?
FFRR and RRS seem to depreciate like stones.
From an expensive sales point the actual £ loss is rather high.
Here you go:FFRR and RRS seem to depreciate like stones.
From an expensive sales point the actual £ loss is rather high.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/range-rov...
https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-10-slowest-deprec...
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/range-rov...
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/87343/car-...
Edited by Pintofbest on Monday 10th December 10:42
craigjm said:
Wills2 said:
It must be their ROW sales that are hurting them, looking at the SMMT YTD data they are the 6th best selling in the UK (JLR combined) at around 110,000 units around 3% down on last year given the issues with WLTP and diesel in general that's not bad, Audi are down 16% as an example.
The demand from China which was the biggest market has halved because of taxation and tariff changes The change in UK demand from last year is not dramatic.
Big drop in Chinese sales but Chinese market cars are not diesel, nor are they produced in UK https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-gua...
What's afoot here is JLR rattling cages that they are now a global company with factories around the world to support local markets, and therefore continued investment in older plants should not be taken for granted.
Wooda80 said:
Yep
The change in UK demand from last year is not dramatic.
Big drop in Chinese sales but Chinese market cars are not diesel, nor are they produced in UK https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-gua...
What's afoot here is JLR rattling cages that they are now a global company with factories around the world to support local markets, and therefore continued investment in older plants should not be taken for granted.
Hang on - the only 2 "volume" cars made in China are the Disco Sport and the current Evoque. The Range Rover, Sport , Range Rover Velar, F-Pace and Discovery (now in Slovakia) are not produced in China. They are made in Europe and shipped to China. The Range Rover products have been strong sellers in China and these vehicles make the most margin for JLR.The change in UK demand from last year is not dramatic.
Big drop in Chinese sales but Chinese market cars are not diesel, nor are they produced in UK https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-gua...
What's afoot here is JLR rattling cages that they are now a global company with factories around the world to support local markets, and therefore continued investment in older plants should not be taken for granted.
Ares said:
One word. Productivity.
Two words. Work Ethic.
The UK are largely st compared to everywhere else.
I'm sat here whilst our Polish cleaner is cleaning the house. She does the house in 3 hours compared to 4.5 hours like our last, British, cleaner. She also charges £12/hr instead of £15/hr.
She's never late, never scrimps on time, is actually cleaning at the start time rather than just arriving 5-10mins late, then spending 5-10 mins getting her stuff together - at the end of her time, she finishes whatever task she was doing at the finish time, then starts clearing/packing up - the Brit was out of the door at her allowed finish time.
She has just been telling me that she gets up at 3am and starts cleaning at 3.30. She finishes her cleaning jobs at 2pm. Heads home for 2 hours sleep, then works in a warehouse packing from 5 til 10.
That attitude is standard for Eastern Europeans.
Bingo, which is why we had to give up trying to compete in labour intensive, low margin heavy industries. Automation and moving into areas of the economy where you add a lot of value for not a lot of work is what supports our leisurely lifestyles. Remember that every time some prick wants to cut investment in education Two words. Work Ethic.
The UK are largely s
t compared to everywhere else.I'm sat here whilst our Polish cleaner is cleaning the house. She does the house in 3 hours compared to 4.5 hours like our last, British, cleaner. She also charges £12/hr instead of £15/hr.
She's never late, never scrimps on time, is actually cleaning at the start time rather than just arriving 5-10mins late, then spending 5-10 mins getting her stuff together - at the end of her time, she finishes whatever task she was doing at the finish time, then starts clearing/packing up - the Brit was out of the door at her allowed finish time.
She has just been telling me that she gets up at 3am and starts cleaning at 3.30. She finishes her cleaning jobs at 2pm. Heads home for 2 hours sleep, then works in a warehouse packing from 5 til 10.
That attitude is standard for Eastern Europeans.
Edited by Ares on Monday 10th December 10:20
The Crack Fox said:
I heard from a big supplier to JLR that they (JLR) are losing £20 million a month. If that's right, surely they will have to make some brutal changes soon?
The total sales flop of the XE and slow decline of the 2nd gen XF must have been painful. You know that big upswing in sales a new model normally gets? Didn't happen for the 2nd gen XF in Europe, they had a year where they stayed the same and since then sales have dropped like a rock. Sales of the old one remained fairly steady through it's life, make of that what you will. Sales are now at the same level as the S-Type was in 2005/6 when that model was a joke.X-Type sales peaked at twice the level XE ever achieved, and even in 2006 when the X-Type was a much maligned ugly duckling it was selling better than the XE is today.. The new 2010 XJ sold 1/3rd as many cars in it's best year as the 2003 XJ ever did. US sales figures are even worse, X-Type peaked at 35k sales per year and XE has just about touched 10k.
I've been utterly dismayed to see what's been happening at Jaguar after the first gen XF and the F-Type gave us hope, who knew that even chasing the old giffer market was more lucrative than being a Happy Shopper BMW.
If the new SUVs dont' succeed I can't see a future, and I am not sure the Jaguar saloon car has much hope in any case.
I guess when presented with the glut of medium priced corporate saloons, the BMW/VAG/Mercedes brands beat the Jags. You see far more Audi's and BMW's and I live near Stratford-upon-Avon and work in Leamington Spa. There are loads about but mostly because all the employees drive them. Still more of the other brands. Or perhaps they Jags disappear into the motorway.
Ares said:
One word. Productivity.
Two words. Work Ethic.
The UK are largely st compared to everywhere else.
I'm sat here whilst our Polish cleaner is cleaning the house. She does the house in 3 hours compared to 4.5 hours like our last, British, cleaner. She also charges £12/hr instead of £15/hr.
She's never late, never scrimps on time, is actually cleaning at the start time rather than just arriving 5-10mins late, then spending 5-10 mins getting her stuff together - at the end of her time, she finishes whatever task she was doing at the finish time, then starts clearing/packing up - the Brit was out of the door at her allowed finish time.
She has just been telling me that she gets up at 3am and starts cleaning at 3.30. She finishes her cleaning jobs at 2pm. Heads home for 2 hours sleep, then works in a warehouse packing from 5 til 10.
That attitude is standard for Eastern Europeans.
I'd like to say there's a popular myth about Polaks however I can't say one who isn't hard working. I've come across a few who drink and fight but that's only after they've manually grafted all day. I do think our social security net is too gentle here in the UK and generations have become used to it.Two words. Work Ethic.
The UK are largely s
t compared to everywhere else.I'm sat here whilst our Polish cleaner is cleaning the house. She does the house in 3 hours compared to 4.5 hours like our last, British, cleaner. She also charges £12/hr instead of £15/hr.
She's never late, never scrimps on time, is actually cleaning at the start time rather than just arriving 5-10mins late, then spending 5-10 mins getting her stuff together - at the end of her time, she finishes whatever task she was doing at the finish time, then starts clearing/packing up - the Brit was out of the door at her allowed finish time.
She has just been telling me that she gets up at 3am and starts cleaning at 3.30. She finishes her cleaning jobs at 2pm. Heads home for 2 hours sleep, then works in a warehouse packing from 5 til 10.
That attitude is standard for Eastern Europeans.
Edited by Ares on Monday 10th December 10:20
Sa Calobra said:
I'd like to say there's a popular myth about Polaks however I can't say one who isn't hard working. I've come across a few who drink and fight but that's only after they've manually grafted all day. I do think our social security net is too gentle here in the UK and generations have become used to it.
I've employed plenty of Eastern Europeans and done business with many more. Poles especially.They are generally a straightforward, no messing type of people. If you're right with them, they are right with you. They are also very pragmatic and hard working.
I would say I prefer dealing with Eastern Europeans more than people from anywhere else in the world, especially Brits who tend to be whiney, entitled and selfish.
Sa Calobra said:
Ares said:
One word. Productivity.
Two words. Work Ethic.
The UK are largely st compared to everywhere else.
I'm sat here whilst our Polish cleaner is cleaning the house. She does the house in 3 hours compared to 4.5 hours like our last, British, cleaner. She also charges £12/hr instead of £15/hr.
She's never late, never scrimps on time, is actually cleaning at the start time rather than just arriving 5-10mins late, then spending 5-10 mins getting her stuff together - at the end of her time, she finishes whatever task she was doing at the finish time, then starts clearing/packing up - the Brit was out of the door at her allowed finish time.
She has just been telling me that she gets up at 3am and starts cleaning at 3.30. She finishes her cleaning jobs at 2pm. Heads home for 2 hours sleep, then works in a warehouse packing from 5 til 10.
That attitude is standard for Eastern Europeans.
I'd like to say there's a popular myth about Polaks however I can't say one who isn't hard working. I've come across a few who drink and fight but that's only after they've manually grafted all day. I do think our social security net is too gentle here in the UK and generations have become used to it.Two words. Work Ethic.
The UK are largely s
t compared to everywhere else.I'm sat here whilst our Polish cleaner is cleaning the house. She does the house in 3 hours compared to 4.5 hours like our last, British, cleaner. She also charges £12/hr instead of £15/hr.
She's never late, never scrimps on time, is actually cleaning at the start time rather than just arriving 5-10mins late, then spending 5-10 mins getting her stuff together - at the end of her time, she finishes whatever task she was doing at the finish time, then starts clearing/packing up - the Brit was out of the door at her allowed finish time.
She has just been telling me that she gets up at 3am and starts cleaning at 3.30. She finishes her cleaning jobs at 2pm. Heads home for 2 hours sleep, then works in a warehouse packing from 5 til 10.
That attitude is standard for Eastern Europeans.
Edited by Ares on Monday 10th December 10:20
Those are work hours the labour movement started fighting against over 150 years ago. "Eight hours labour, eight hours recreation, eight hours rest" is not something that should be seen as privileged or 'soft'. Those are conditions that everyone has every right to feel entitled to.
a local farm employs mainly poles to pick mushrooms,
they kept finding one bloke asleep, it turned out he was doing 2 x 8 hour jobs at different places, oh and a 4 hr part time job,
with travelling he had 2 hours sleep a day,
they earn enough in 3 years to go home and buy a farm they tell me, so its worth it.
they kept finding one bloke asleep, it turned out he was doing 2 x 8 hour jobs at different places, oh and a 4 hr part time job,
with travelling he had 2 hours sleep a day,
they earn enough in 3 years to go home and buy a farm they tell me, so its worth it.
Sa Calobra said:
Ares said:
One word. Productivity.
Two words. Work Ethic.
The UK are largely st compared to everywhere else.
I'm sat here whilst our Polish cleaner is cleaning the house. She does the house in 3 hours compared to 4.5 hours like our last, British, cleaner. She also charges £12/hr instead of £15/hr.
She's never late, never scrimps on time, is actually cleaning at the start time rather than just arriving 5-10mins late, then spending 5-10 mins getting her stuff together - at the end of her time, she finishes whatever task she was doing at the finish time, then starts clearing/packing up - the Brit was out of the door at her allowed finish time.
She has just been telling me that she gets up at 3am and starts cleaning at 3.30. She finishes her cleaning jobs at 2pm. Heads home for 2 hours sleep, then works in a warehouse packing from 5 til 10.
That attitude is standard for Eastern Europeans.
I'd like to say there's a popular myth about Polaks however I can't say one who isn't hard working. I've come across a few who drink and fight but that's only after they've manually grafted all day. I do think our social security net is too gentle here in the UK and generations have become used to it.Two words. Work Ethic.
The UK are largely s
t compared to everywhere else.I'm sat here whilst our Polish cleaner is cleaning the house. She does the house in 3 hours compared to 4.5 hours like our last, British, cleaner. She also charges £12/hr instead of £15/hr.
She's never late, never scrimps on time, is actually cleaning at the start time rather than just arriving 5-10mins late, then spending 5-10 mins getting her stuff together - at the end of her time, she finishes whatever task she was doing at the finish time, then starts clearing/packing up - the Brit was out of the door at her allowed finish time.
She has just been telling me that she gets up at 3am and starts cleaning at 3.30. She finishes her cleaning jobs at 2pm. Heads home for 2 hours sleep, then works in a warehouse packing from 5 til 10.
That attitude is standard for Eastern Europeans.
Edited by Ares on Monday 10th December 10:20
I must be missing something because the reports I Read at work show sales growing in all markets last month (North America, UK, Europe) with sales down drastically in China due to tariff changes and Trumps trade war creating market uncertainty.
The Nitra plant is getting the Disco because bodyshop 2 (disco BIW shop) needs ripping out and refitting to make way for the new MLA platform where solihull is the lead plant. Nitra are bound to get the lower margin cars too because their wages are way below UK wages.
As for whoever it was saying UK plants aren't as productive as foreign ones or UK workers have a worse work ethic ,they're talking a load of crap. Final assembly 2 at solihull (low spec RRS, Velar and F Pace build hall) runs at nearly 100% OPR most weeks which is way above JLR's rivals (audi,BMW, merc are around 90% I believe) and the industry average. A high OPR is Part of the reason they can afford to lose a shift in FA2 but up the line rate to 45 p/h so they don't lose much if any volume they currently produce. Final assembly 1 (FFRR, RRS, Disco build hall) is lower at 85%ish but its an old build hall that has lots of breakdowns. Again, thats slowly improving too as they're focussing on tackling the bottlenecks.
I think people forget that for the last 8 years or so its been a free for all at JLR with contractors earning a fortune, massive recruitment drives, loads of new models, and unlimited overtime for workers. Its not unheard of for grade A workers to be earning nearly £70K! Of course they would look to tighten their belts eventually, and thats what is happening now prompted by the China slow down.
The Nitra plant is getting the Disco because bodyshop 2 (disco BIW shop) needs ripping out and refitting to make way for the new MLA platform where solihull is the lead plant. Nitra are bound to get the lower margin cars too because their wages are way below UK wages.
As for whoever it was saying UK plants aren't as productive as foreign ones or UK workers have a worse work ethic ,they're talking a load of crap. Final assembly 2 at solihull (low spec RRS, Velar and F Pace build hall) runs at nearly 100% OPR most weeks which is way above JLR's rivals (audi,BMW, merc are around 90% I believe) and the industry average. A high OPR is Part of the reason they can afford to lose a shift in FA2 but up the line rate to 45 p/h so they don't lose much if any volume they currently produce. Final assembly 1 (FFRR, RRS, Disco build hall) is lower at 85%ish but its an old build hall that has lots of breakdowns. Again, thats slowly improving too as they're focussing on tackling the bottlenecks.
I think people forget that for the last 8 years or so its been a free for all at JLR with contractors earning a fortune, massive recruitment drives, loads of new models, and unlimited overtime for workers. Its not unheard of for grade A workers to be earning nearly £70K! Of course they would look to tighten their belts eventually, and thats what is happening now prompted by the China slow down.
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