Stupid things non petrolheads say....
Discussion
GroundEffect said:
I bet there's a lot of people that think all cars go the same distance, but it's just the amount it costs to fill up that changes.
I'm sure of it.
I have no faith in humanity when it comes to anything remotely logic-based.
Don't put ideas in the heads of the tree-huggers at the EU. Next thing, all cars will have standard size tanks, so as to deter folks from buying thirsty motors. Save the planet, we're all doomed.I'm sure of it.
I have no faith in humanity when it comes to anything remotely logic-based.
Captain Muppet said:
GokTweed said:
GroundEffect said:
GokTweed said:
GroundEffect said:
GokTweed said:
Why on the back of boxters and, i think, caymans does the spoiler/wing/whatever rise on a block of metal about as aerodynamic as a brick?
That's not how aerodynamics works. They are there specifically to change the airflow, so the 'block' is part of the design.
t load of drag. Sorry but with my limited knowledge of aerodynamics etc. i'd tend to think if it doesn't look right it probably doesn't work properlySometimes it's better to read a book and understand something than to poke at it with a stick and say it's wrong.
big_boz said:
Captain Muppet said:
Sometimes it's better to read a book and understand something than to poke at it with a stick and say it's wrong.
Na this is Piston heads! Get your man to read the book, then hit him with the stick until you either understand what was in the book or your arm gets tired.
GokTweed said:
I bet it creates a st load of drag. Sorry but with my limited knowledge of aerodynamics etc. i'd tend to think if it doesn't look right it probably doesn't work properly
Well 'intuition' is a loa of crap when it comes to something as complex as fluid flow. t load of drag. Sorry but with my limited knowledge of aerodynamics etc. i'd tend to think if it doesn't look right it probably doesn't work properlySpoilers are purposefully designed to perturb the flow. Remember you can't look at something in isolation and think you now how well it works. The flow regime of a car starts at the nose.
GroundEffect said:
GokTweed said:
I bet it creates a st load of drag. Sorry but with my limited knowledge of aerodynamics etc. i'd tend to think if it doesn't look right it probably doesn't work properly
Well 'intuition' is a loa of crap when it comes to something as complex as fluid flow. t load of drag. Sorry but with my limited knowledge of aerodynamics etc. i'd tend to think if it doesn't look right it probably doesn't work properlySpoilers are purposefully designed to perturb the flow. Remember you can't look at something in isolation and think you now how well it works. The flow regime of a car starts at the nose.
GokTweed said:
GroundEffect said:
GokTweed said:
I bet it creates a st load of drag. Sorry but with my limited knowledge of aerodynamics etc. i'd tend to think if it doesn't look right it probably doesn't work properly
Well 'intuition' is a loa of crap when it comes to something as complex as fluid flow. t load of drag. Sorry but with my limited knowledge of aerodynamics etc. i'd tend to think if it doesn't look right it probably doesn't work properlySpoilers are purposefully designed to perturb the flow. Remember you can't look at something in isolation and think you now how well it works. The flow regime of a car starts at the nose.
I guess you were trying to show a Porsche spoiler. They are designed to detach the airflow and slow it down this reduces the low pressure over the car...reducing lift and increasing stability. They also help reduce drag by the same way.
Si_steve said:
'Turbocharged cars do not have diverter/dump/blow off valves as standard'
From my other half's sibling who happens to be a 'mechanic' for the council
So tell me then...what happens to the built up boost pressure when you close the throttle without one?
You get a nice broken turbo From my other half's sibling who happens to be a 'mechanic' for the council
So tell me then...what happens to the built up boost pressure when you close the throttle without one?
AlfaDogvan said:
Maybe talking out my arse, but I thought its primary function was to improve engine cooling at speed?
ADV
I would not go as far as to insult you by mentioning you use your Anus as a mouthpiece - but no.ADV
Modern Porsche Turbos are water cooled and have all the radiators in the nose of the car. The Spoiler raises on modern Porsches (European Market) at 130km/h or 74mph in order to improve downforce/reduce lift. I do not think the 997 Turbo actually produces downforce as such, I think it just reduces lift.
The latest 911 GT3 RS cars actually do produce more downforce than the car produces lift - but the spoilers that these cars are equipped with are a little more 'obvious'
Si_steve said:
'Turbocharged cars do not have diverter/dump/blow off valves as standard'
From my other half's sibling who happens to be a 'mechanic' for the council
So tell me then...what happens to the built up boost pressure when you close the throttle without one?
In my standard S12 Nissan Silvia Turbo the air would have to find it's way back through the turbo. It had a blow off valve (that was there to limit maximum boost pressure) but no dump valve, recirculating or otherwise.From my other half's sibling who happens to be a 'mechanic' for the council
So tell me then...what happens to the built up boost pressure when you close the throttle without one?
Captain Muppet said:
Si_steve said:
'Turbocharged cars do not have diverter/dump/blow off valves as standard'
From my other half's sibling who happens to be a 'mechanic' for the council
So tell me then...what happens to the built up boost pressure when you close the throttle without one?
In my standard S12 Nissan Silvia Turbo the air would have to find it's way back through the turbo. It had a blow off valve (that was there to limit maximum boost pressure) but no dump valve, recirculating or otherwise.From my other half's sibling who happens to be a 'mechanic' for the council
So tell me then...what happens to the built up boost pressure when you close the throttle without one?
People are trying to explain stuff to you (Goktweed) and all you want to do is have a pop at them.
Think of a car body as being shaped a bit like the upper surface of a plane wing, naturally it tries to create lift as the air flowing over the top is low pressure. A spoiler disrupts the airflow over the body of the car and forces it to seperate from the surface and kills the lift effect (very similar to the way a spoiler works on an aeroplane wing when it lands and you see them pop up out of the wing as you slow down).
This helps stabilise the car, reduces drag and the body creates less lift meaning there is more effective weight at the wheels.
NB. It's a while since I studied aerodynamics in any great detail.
Think of a car body as being shaped a bit like the upper surface of a plane wing, naturally it tries to create lift as the air flowing over the top is low pressure. A spoiler disrupts the airflow over the body of the car and forces it to seperate from the surface and kills the lift effect (very similar to the way a spoiler works on an aeroplane wing when it lands and you see them pop up out of the wing as you slow down).
This helps stabilise the car, reduces drag and the body creates less lift meaning there is more effective weight at the wheels.
NB. It's a while since I studied aerodynamics in any great detail.
Cyder said:
People are trying to explain stuff to you (Goktweed) and all you want to do is have a pop at them.
Think of a car body as being shaped a bit like the upper surface of a plane wing, naturally it tries to create lift as the air flowing over the top is low pressure. A spoiler disrupts the airflow over the body of the car and forces it to seperate from the surface and kills the lift effect (very similar to the way a spoiler works on an aeroplane wing when it lands and you see them pop up out of the wing as you slow down).
This helps stabilise the car, reduces drag and the body creates less lift meaning there is more effective weight at the wheels.
NB. It's a while since I studied aerodynamics in any great detail.
Correct Think of a car body as being shaped a bit like the upper surface of a plane wing, naturally it tries to create lift as the air flowing over the top is low pressure. A spoiler disrupts the airflow over the body of the car and forces it to seperate from the surface and kills the lift effect (very similar to the way a spoiler works on an aeroplane wing when it lands and you see them pop up out of the wing as you slow down).
This helps stabilise the car, reduces drag and the body creates less lift meaning there is more effective weight at the wheels.
NB. It's a while since I studied aerodynamics in any great detail.
Captain Muppet said:
It had a blow off valve (that was there to limit maximum boost pressure) but no dump valve.
On the wings/spoilers debate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_%28automotive...
Wikipedia says so so it must be true
Kinda makes sense, spoilers spoil and wings are.. aerofoils.
GroundEffect said:
Captain Muppet said:
Si_steve said:
'Turbocharged cars do not have diverter/dump/blow off valves as standard'
From my other half's sibling who happens to be a 'mechanic' for the council
So tell me then...what happens to the built up boost pressure when you close the throttle without one?
In my standard S12 Nissan Silvia Turbo the air would have to find it's way back through the turbo. It had a blow off valve (that was there to limit maximum boost pressure) but no dump valve, recirculating or otherwise.From my other half's sibling who happens to be a 'mechanic' for the council
So tell me then...what happens to the built up boost pressure when you close the throttle without one?
It did have a pressure release valve which stopped inlet manifold pressure exceeding something like 7psi. But it was a simple spring pressure thing, and wasn't vacuum operated.
GokTweed said:
Sorry does it work now? Not sure how that block will reduce drag?
Actually, I think it may increase drag a little. Here is the thing though - you need to disrupt the airflow over a car to break up the boundary layer of air. The boundary layer of air creates low pressure, which means the car gets lift... think of an aircraft wing... so whilst that 'block' as you put it may increase drag a bit it certainly keeps the Boxster you seem to object to a bit more planted.The arm out of the window at 70mph is not a bad idea for seeing how your arms 'angle of attack' affects the direction in which it travles (up or down or chopped off by a White Van)
I suggest you pick a summers day for that schoolboy experiment and a very clear road.You just need to watch F1 and see how the DRS system is deployed and how it affects speed and cornering ability. WIth the wing closed the rear is grippy but slow - More drag but more downforce.
With the wing open, rear is flighty but top speed is higher.
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