[shirt]

peleton - was xp3 the one with the round foglamps and indicators in the mirrors? I really like that look, its what I'll have the boys at woking do once I've mugged enough old ladies

[flemke]

shirt said:

I was thinking more along the lines of a 'continuation' car. I believe it is technically possible given that the factory can manufacture parts, but it'd require a departure from the company's usual way of thinking and a not inconsiderable bag of cash.

They won't do a "continuation", at least not as long as honourable people are running the company.

[flemke]

Snoggledog said:

flemke said:

shirt said:

silly qn, but do mclaren/bmw have the parts capacity to construct a 'new' f1?

also - do any pics exist of prince jefri's 2+2 f1 alluded to in the evo article?

An interesting question, as theoretically a "Yes" would mean that they could make one or more additional cars, the way that, say, a certain Italian car-maker is said to have done long after a low-volume production run had ceased.

They've told me in the past that, if necessary, they could repair/replace anything that needed doing, including the engine.
The one thing that they would not be able to do (ethically as well as practically) is to make a "new" car. As I said above, the tub is irreducibly "the car"; if your tub were beyond repair, I think that that would be it for your car. Aside from that, if it's broke, they can fix it.

So in theory then you could take the F1 to the local BMW dealership for an oil change?

In theory, you could change it yourself.
Apart from Woking, around the world there are several authorised F1 service agents, and they are (so far as I know) all BMW dealerships with special tools and staff who have been trained in Woking.

[fatboy69]

flemke - it was the 288 i was thinking of. when they were sold to the public my boss bought one - he refused to go to the factory to collect the car so i went instead!!

i was one of a number of people who drove the car back through europe & home to birmingham where it lived for many years.

i think from memory the factory stated that no more than 250 of the gto's would be built & even back in the early 80's demand for cars such as this was always going to outstrip demand.

it was always speculated that the factory built more than 250 & whilst they officially confirmed they had built 272 it has always been widely believed that they built in excess of 300.

however no one really knows.

anyway. i dont care too much as i was lucky enough to drive the car on a number of occasions.

i have got photo's of the car at home when it arrived home sporting its italian registration plate.

amazing car.

oh yeah. the 959 was also a staggering car.

Edited by fatboy69 on Thursday 5th August 23:18

[flemke]

fatboy69 said:

flemke - it was the 288 i was thinking of. when they were sold to the public my boss bought one - he refused to go to the factory to collect the car so i went instead!!

i was one of a number of people who drove the car back through europe & home to birmingham where it lived for many years.

i think from memory the factory stated that no more than 250 of the gto's would be built & even back in the early 80's demand for cars such as this was always going to outstrip demand.

it was always speculated that the factory built more than 250 & whilst they officially confirmed they had built 272 it has always been widely believed that they built in excess of 300.

however no one really knows.

anyway. i dont care too much as i was lucky enough to drive the car on a number of occasions.

i have got photo's of the car at home when it arrived home sporting its italian registration plate.

amazing car.

oh yeah. the 959 was also a staggering car.

I am NOT able to confirm, but I heard from a reliable contact that the factory built and authenticated an "original" 288 and an "original" F40 in, ahem, 2007.

[fatboy69]

that's a new one. hadnt heard that before. a little but naughty if it is true, however i suppose money talks.

[flemke]

fatboy69 said:

that's a new one. hadnt heard that before. a little but naughty if it is true, however i suppose money talks.

as do positions of influence....

[HarryW]

Glad you're unscathed and the car is in the hospital; maybe it will return in a different shade from NY yankee blue to say a more fitting colour, BRG perhaps (the old classic flat brooklands goose turd type green not a modern take).

zakelwe said:

F1 or GT1 from the same era?

Don't normally post on your threads for fear of being labelled a fanboy (no disrespect meant) but I just noticed the car in the background of that Photo, now that is a rare car. Spookily enough it shares a visible component with the F1 as does any T car or Cerbera, except the tivs have a slight modification to theirs......wereas the F1 stuck with the early griff type behind the shut line mechanical method.

[fatboy69]

i do remember reading a story many years ago that ferrari built a 288 for niki lauda as he hadnt been able to get an order placed before the official run of 250 cars was built.

this was number 273 i believe.

[Stuart]

flemke said:

fatboy69 said:

flemke - would you be referring to a car of which 272 were offically built whilst over 300 were alledgedly registered?

I was thinking of the 288 and F40, although it may well have happened with other, earlier models.

Brand new numbers, or built up from an existing/written off/unused engine and chassis plate?

[Stuart]

Mazda Baiter said:

Stuart said:

n that software guy

http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/03/22/micromuse_founder_killed_in_f1/

[clonmult]

Silent1 said:

Stuart said:

zakelwe said:

F1 or GT1 from the same era?

I think that one of the strengths of the F1 is how good it still looks today compared to its contemporaries. That GT1 looks like a proper Sow's ear compared to the simple elegance of the McLaren IMHO.

How very dare you, go and sit in the corner and think about what you've just said.

But he is right. That GT1 is definitely more functional than beautiful. The F1 has a definite elegance and simplicity thats quite beautiful.

[Mazda Baiter]

Stuart said:

Mazda Baiter said:

Stuart said:

that software guy

http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/03/22/micromuse_founder_killed_in_f1/

Yeah. Bit of a dodgy Essex geezer wasn't he? Extra curricular activities, no?

[LongLiveTazio]

flemke said:

I am NOT able to confirm, but I heard from a reliable contact that the factory built and authenticated an "original" 288 and an "original" F40 in, ahem, 2007.

That's rather interesting. I once spoke to a chap who Michelotto - not the factory - offered to build a new F40 for when he was looking for a mint one. Presumably that was it.

[flemke]

Stuart said:

flemke said:

fatboy69 said:

flemke - would you be referring to a car of which 272 were offically built whilst over 300 were alledgedly registered?

I was thinking of the 288 and F40, although it may well have happened with other, earlier models.

Brand new numbers, or built up from an existing/written off/unused engine and chassis plate?

I do not know this for a fact, and the basis of the chassis #s was not mentioned, but I was told that 100% inventory parts were built into new (as in, "had not previously existed as objects") cars, but were then given the official factory certification as having been from the period, rather than being modern "bitsas".

[abarth130]

flemke said:

Stuart said:

flemke said:

fatboy69 said:

flemke - would you be referring to a car of which 272 were offically built whilst over 300 were alledgedly registered?

I was thinking of the 288 and F40, although it may well have happened with other, earlier models.

Brand new numbers, or built up from an existing/written off/unused engine and chassis plate?

I do not know this for a fact, and the basis of the chassis #s was not mentioned, but I was told that 100% inventory parts were built into new (as in, "had not previously existed as objects") cars, but were then given the official factory certification as having been from the period, rather than being modern "bitsas".

As a life-long Ferrari obsessive, the appeal of the marque to me has always centred around the unattainable nature of the product along with Enzo's supposed philosophy of building less than you can sell, maintaining the desirability of the cars in general. The more I see Ferrari branded fleeces and mobile phones and middle eastern theme parks these days, the more the appeal of the brand diminishes in my eyes along with many others, I'm sure.

But this little snippet of information is the icing on the cake. This 'if you have the money, you can have anything' philosophy is not what Ferrari was all about, but it would certainly seem to be the case now.

Flemke - do you not worry that McLaren might go the way of other big businesses and start making a continuation model of the F1 in future years as well as some of the other brand-devaluing antics that Ferrari have adopted in recent years?

[flemke]

abarth130 said:

flemke said:

Stuart said:

flemke said:

fatboy69 said:

flemke - would you be referring to a car of which 272 were offically built whilst over 300 were alledgedly registered?

I was thinking of the 288 and F40, although it may well have happened with other, earlier models.

Brand new numbers, or built up from an existing/written off/unused engine and chassis plate?

I do not know this for a fact, and the basis of the chassis #s was not mentioned, but I was told that 100% inventory parts were built into new (as in, "had not previously existed as objects") cars, but were then given the official factory certification as having been from the period, rather than being modern "bitsas".

As a life-long Ferrari obsessive, the appeal of the marque to me has always centred around the unattainable nature of the product along with Enzo's supposed philosophy of building less than you can sell, maintaining the desirability of the cars in general. The more I see Ferrari branded fleeces and mobile phones and middle eastern theme parks these days, the more the appeal of the brand diminishes in my eyes along with many others, I'm sure.

But this little snippet of information is the icing on the cake. This 'if you have the money, you can have anything' philosophy is not what Ferrari was all about, but it would certainly seem to be the case now.

Flemke - do you not worry that McLaren might go the way of other big businesses and start making a continuation model of the F1 in future years as well as some of the other brand-devaluing antics that Ferrari have adopted in recent years?

The story I was told did not involve money.

Wrt McLaren, I can't see it, at least not for the road cars.
They'd need BMW to make more engines. They'd have a very hard time getting the new edition type-approved in most places. Ron likes challenges that involve doing something new and better, leading the way. This would be retrograde.
More than anything else, however, I think they wouldn't do it because it would be a betrayal of their clients, many of whom have a continuing relationship with McL. that almost is a mutual commitment. Within 5 minutes of my crunchification last week, before the police had arrived, I was speaking with the man at McL. who oversees the F1s. He had known that I was going to be driving the car that day. He answered his phone with, "Hi, Flemke. Why do I have the feeling that you're not calling me with good news?"
Perhaps I am being naive, but I do not believe that Ron would undermine his loyal clients of many years by replicating what they have invested in. He'd rather try to make something different and forward-looking (cutting-edge emissions efficiency, pioneering use of materials), which is what the P12 will be.

[Soovy]

flemke said:

abarth130 said:

flemke said:

Stuart said:

flemke said:

fatboy69 said:

flemke - would you be referring to a car of which 272 were offically built whilst over 300 were alledgedly registered?

I was thinking of the 288 and F40, although it may well have happened with other, earlier models.

Brand new numbers, or built up from an existing/written off/unused engine and chassis plate?

I do not know this for a fact, and the basis of the chassis #s was not mentioned, but I was told that 100% inventory parts were built into new (as in, "had not previously existed as objects") cars, but were then given the official factory certification as having been from the period, rather than being modern "bitsas".

As a life-long Ferrari obsessive, the appeal of the marque to me has always centred around the unattainable nature of the product along with Enzo's supposed philosophy of building less than you can sell, maintaining the desirability of the cars in general. The more I see Ferrari branded fleeces and mobile phones and middle eastern theme parks these days, the more the appeal of the brand diminishes in my eyes along with many others, I'm sure.

But this little snippet of information is the icing on the cake. This 'if you have the money, you can have anything' philosophy is not what Ferrari was all about, but it would certainly seem to be the case now.

Flemke - do you not worry that McLaren might go the way of other big businesses and start making a continuation model of the F1 in future years as well as some of the other brand-devaluing antics that Ferrari have adopted in recent years?

The story I was told did not involve money.

Wrt McLaren, I can't see it, at least not for the road cars.
They'd need BMW to make more engines. They'd have a very hard time getting the new edition type-approved in most places. Ron likes challenges that involve doing something new and better, leading the way. This would be retrograde.
More than anything else, however, I think they wouldn't do it because it would be a betrayal of their clients, many of whom have a continuing relationship with McL. that almost is a mutual commitment. Within 5 minutes of my crunchification last week, before the police had arrived, I was speaking with the man at McL. who oversees the F1s. He had known that I was going to be driving the car that day. He answered his phone with, "Hi, Flemke. Why do I have the feeling that you're not calling me with good news?"
Perhaps I am being naive, but I do not believe that Ron would undermine his loyal clients of many years by replicating what they have invested in. He'd rather try to make something different and forward-looking (cutting-edge emissions efficiency, pioneering use of materials), which is what the P12 will be.

Flemke - is it beyond the bounds of possibility that he already knew you'd had an accident from an "alert" triggered by live telemetry? That is to say are all of the cars always "talking" to the factory (lateral g, whereabouts, speed, throttle opening heh heh)

Edited by Soovy on Friday 6th August 11:08

[TonyHetherington]

I seem to recall the original spec had a modem that you connected into a phone line which then linked to the factory. So they could remotely look at the car's health and download all that good info. remember how old the car is, the original spec would certainly not be able to consistently monitor.

The Veyron can, and does, consistently monitor (to put into perspective 10+ yrs of technology development).

[flemke]

Soovy said:

Flemke - is it beyond the bounds of possibility that he already knew you'd had an accident from an "alert" triggered by live telemetry? That is to say are all of the cars always "talking" to the factory (lateral g, whereabouts, speed, throttle opening heh heh)

Suffice to say that he did not have that information.