RE: Tesla Roadster: 'Quickest car in the world'

[98elise]

RobDickinson said:

98elise said:

Essentially double the capacity means you can double the range, or double the max power drawn.

You actually do both...

Tesla are known to use specific cells (18650s), though a slightly larger one (2170 supposedly but rumours of a 44160) in the model 3 so this could be one of two sizes, or something new..

Agreed, it wasn't an exclusive or. The energy can be used however you want it.

[98elise]

isaldiri said:

RobDickinson said:

Did you watch the videos of the launch event when the roadster was doing ~2 second 0-60s all night? Where people who are used to 2.3 second 0-60s in the P100D were impressed?

Did you see any independent vbox or gps type verification of sub2 second 0-60 launches? Because i sure didn't....

And again, you're ignoring that no Cup2 right now is going to be able to produce 1.4+g whether or not Elon Musk proclaims it can.

Its clearly faster than the Model S, but you don't think its 1.9. What would you guess the performance is given its faster than the S?

Elon Musk may deliver stuff later than promised, but I don't think he's ever overstated performance.

[AW111]

fblm said:

It's only got about 6bn in debt. The problem is their cash drain (down from 5 to 3bn since just august). If model 3 is further delayed they are going to run out of cash. If they can get it together by the end of q1 they'll be fine but it's going to be tight. Given the problems they've already overcome volume production isn't exactly rocket science.

That's a shame, as Musk had one or two genuine rocket scientists on his payroll...

[isaldiri]

98elise said:

Its clearly faster than the Model S, but you don't think its 1.9. What would you guess the performance is given its faster than the S?

It really depends on the tyre used. All I'm saying is that given there are numerous tests of Cup2 tyres (as used on the demo car) braking at only 1.2-1.3g. You're not going to have a car magically accelerating at 1.4+ just because it's a Tesla and no matter how much extra battery or power it has as 0-60 has been largely tyre limited for a good long while. I accept by 2020 a tyre might well exist that can do that though.

[robinessex]

If you stuff your EV socket into a charger somewhere, I'm guessing you at least pay VAT. No ‘petrol tax’ on EV electricity. YET!. Now, if you rig up some sort of solar charger system, ohh look, government loose all the revenue from your re-fill!!

[955matt]

t really depends on the tyre used. All I'm saying is that given there are numerous tests of Cup2 tyres (as used on the demo car) braking at only 1.2-1.3g. You're not going to have a car magically accelerating at 1.4+ just because it's a Tesla and no matter how much extra battery or power it has as 0-60 has been largely tyre limited for a good long while. I accept by 2020 a tyre might well exist that can do that though.

Have you not been drag racing ??????????????

[RumbleOfThunder]

955matt said:

t really depends on the tyre used. All I'm saying is that given there are numerous tests of Cup2 tyres (as used on the demo car) braking at only 1.2-1.3g. You're not going to have a car magically accelerating at 1.4+ just because it's a Tesla and no matter how much extra battery or power it has as 0-60 has been largely tyre limited for a good long while. I accept by 2020 a tyre might well exist that can do that though.

Have you not been drag racing ??????????????

As stated earlier in the thread a 1.4g peak has already been recorded in a Model S, so the tyre can do it. I don't think it unreasonable to suggest it can be sustained over a long period with more power and less weight of the Roadster.

[98elise]

isaldiri said:

98elise said:

Its clearly faster than the Model S, but you don't think its 1.9. What would you guess the performance is given its faster than the S?

It really depends on the tyre used. All I'm saying is that given there are numerous tests of Cup2 tyres (as used on the demo car) braking at only 1.2-1.3g. You're not going to have a car magically accelerating at 1.4+ just because it's a Tesla and no matter how much extra battery or power it has as 0-60 has been largely tyre limited for a good long while. I accept by 2020 a tyre might well exist that can do that though.

Is it possible that the precise control available on an electric motor is better at finding traction than than a car braking? My ABS pulses under heavy braking, which is better then i can do, but probably not the best that could be achieved.

[boxerTen]

98elise said:

Is it possible that the precise control available on an electric motor is better at finding traction than than a car braking? My ABS pulses under heavy braking, which is better then i can do, but probably not the best that could be achieved.

Quite possibly. And there are other factors. How warm were the tyres? - we are in California here. Was the measuring accurate? If the car travelled just 3 inches before tripping the timing one gets a full tenth of second lower measured time. Likely the braking tests cited were done from 60 mph to evaluate braking distance. To evaluate the coefficient of adhesion you would do the test from a higher speed to eliminate transient effects on initial brake application and then only consider the behaviour from 60 to zero.

[Ares]

8V085 said:

Ares said:

fblm said:

Given that car sharing has been around for 20 years and has had a negligible impact on car ownership, what makes you think it's going to make a difference in the foreseeable future? Uber is fine until you need to do the school run with a couple of kids.

Because it already is??

And Uber works great to do the school run. My S-i-L uses it all the time in the US, despite having a car.

Can we stop calling uber a car sharing scheme, it's a cab service setup designed to avoid having to meet all the compliance and regulatory requirements which any licensed taxi/mini cab service has to do.

You've not heard of Uber car share then?

[Ares]

fblm said:

Ares said:

Because it already is??

And Uber works great to do the school run. My S-i-L uses it all the time in the US, despite having a car.

It works great because only a tiny number of people use it! Services like uber work by replacing base demand not peak. Secondly I assume these are kids old enough to travel without car seat and alone?

Tiny number? You've not used Uber in the US then?

And they are 9 and 11, my S-i-L travels with them, and they have backpacks which convert into car seats. (same my daughter has)

[Ares]

traxx said:

I guess the key difference is that Ferrari show you a car with a real spec (which they stick to) and delivery of customer cars dont start 4 years into the future

I dont actually doubt the 0-60 figures but when other manufactures talk about speeds of 250mph they give long explanations of the aerodynamic issues - tbh the Tesla doesn't look that aerodynamic

But the main thing is when you go to buy are Ferrari they aren't interested in telling you how fast the car will go in a straight line its how fast you can round a corner that matters

If this car were anything other than a publicity effort then Tesla would have put up some track videos - because thats what someone buying a 250,000 sports car wants to see

I have much more time for the NIO EP9 - looks better, they took it to Nurburgring and it worked

This Tesla isn't really a Ferrari competitor. But when Ferrari first announce a new car, they show you a picture and a bunch of 'PR'. At least Tesla had a working car when it was first announced.

[8V085]

Ares said:

8V085 said:

Ares said:

fblm said:

Given that car sharing has been around for 20 years and has had a negligible impact on car ownership, what makes you think it's going to make a difference in the foreseeable future? Uber is fine until you need to do the school run with a couple of kids.

Because it already is??

And Uber works great to do the school run. My S-i-L uses it all the time in the US, despite having a car.

Can we stop calling uber a car sharing scheme, it's a cab service setup designed to avoid having to meet all the compliance and regulatory requirements which any licensed taxi/mini cab service has to do.

You've not heard of Uber car share then?

I haven't no, did they introduce that to legitimise their main business?

[Ares]

jsf said:

It also rode so badly him and his crew wanted to throw up. If that were an ICE car he wouldn't have been so kind.

I am an old fart (if 52 is old)

I also know quite a bit about cars and driving, i'm just looking at the car and assessing it and the bullst PR that surrounds these cars right now. I most certainly am not someone with an old mind, i have always enjoyed technology.

So what is your review of a Tesla having driven one?

[Ares]

canucklehead said:

Hmph. 0-60 times are the party trick of electric motors: max torque at zero revs will do that for you. So, yawn.

And I guarantee you that you will not get 620 miles per charge if you persist in doing 0-60 in 1.9s or try to hit top speed regularly. Or indeed, drive it vigorously most of the time. Energy usage is energy usage, regardless of whether you're burning your fossilised dinosaurs in your engine or in a generating station miles away. You can sip it and eke out the range, or you can quaff lustily of performance and need to find more energy sooner. Physics is physics.
.

This is such a bullst statement. No car will give maximum range if you drive vigorously.

As I've said 3 times now, my car has once given 480 miles from a tank of petrol, but if I use all 500bhp on a regular basis, I'm lucky to see 100 miles.

Alas, my car doesn't replace petrol in the tank when I brake.

[Ares]

8V085 said:

Ares said:

8V085 said:

Ares said:

fblm said:

Given that car sharing has been around for 20 years and has had a negligible impact on car ownership, what makes you think it's going to make a difference in the foreseeable future? Uber is fine until you need to do the school run with a couple of kids.

Because it already is??

And Uber works great to do the school run. My S-i-L uses it all the time in the US, despite having a car.

Can we stop calling uber a car sharing scheme, it's a cab service setup designed to avoid having to meet all the compliance and regulatory requirements which any licensed taxi/mini cab service has to do.

You've not heard of Uber car share then?

I haven't no, did they introduce that to legitimise their main business?

Perhaps take the sarcasm out of post when sitting in a position of ignorance then


You imply their current/main business is illegitimate? How so? (and tread carefully.....£m lawsuits are made on the back of libel)

Uber works great where is is allowed to work properly. The only country I've visited where is isn't allowed to work properly is the UK. It's also the only country is doesn't work superbly well. Co-Incidence??

[Otispunkmeyer]

As an aside to all this

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/tesla-is-set-t...

Bloomberg reckons they'll be out of dosh in 9 months if they don't bring in some more coin.

I have to say, asking for $250k up front for what is essentially a prototype (the new Roadster) that won't be seen rolling off the line for at least 2 years is pretty brazen given the faff they're having over under-delivering on the 3.

I do think it'll all come out rosy in the end, but they're essentially operating on promises at the moment.

I think Apple should spend some of that gigantic cash pile they have. Apple and Tesla surely a match made in heaven. Still, roasting through $480k a day is no joke!

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Wednesday 22 November 17:20

[RobDickinson]

Using braking for estimating acceleration is a rough guide but not perfect.

That engineering guy failed to look at tyre size, the cars he looked at have larger contact area on the rears which won't be utilised under breaking.

[8V085]

Ares said:

8V085 said:

Ares said:

8V085 said:

Ares said:

fblm said:

Given that car sharing has been around for 20 years and has had a negligible impact on car ownership, what makes you think it's going to make a difference in the foreseeable future? Uber is fine until you need to do the school run with a couple of kids.

Because it already is??

And Uber works great to do the school run. My S-i-L uses it all the time in the US, despite having a car.

Can we stop calling uber a car sharing scheme, it's a cab service setup designed to avoid having to meet all the compliance and regulatory requirements which any licensed taxi/mini cab service has to do.

You've not heard of Uber car share then?

I haven't no, did they introduce that to legitimise their main business?

Perhaps take the sarcasm out of post when sitting in a position of ignorance then


You imply their current/main business is illegitimate? How so? (and tread carefully.....£m lawsuits are made on the back of libel)

Uber works great where is is allowed to work properly. The only country I've visited where is isn't allowed to work properly is the UK. It's also the only country is doesn't work superbly well. Co-Incidence??

Legitimise as most words has multiple meanings, one of which is to make something look like something that it isn't. So don't imply things and don't look for drama.

They launched as a ride sharing platform, where in fact they have very little to do with ride sharing (except that thing you just pointed out). They are technically a minicab service run utilising gaps in legislation without having to jump through all the regulatory hoops. This helps them undercut those who have to offer services in line with established requirements. They deploy surge pricing wherever they feel like, which no legally operating cab service running with public in mind can since most are capped at the max rate which was designed to stop cowboys from taking advantage of public. Not to mention that their long term commitment is to eliminate all cabs and run their own cars without drivers.

[wst]

AW111 said:

That's a shame, as Musk had one or two genuine rocket scientists on his payroll...

Obviously. That's how he's got rockets that land on barges, get refuelled and sent into space a week later.