RE: 2020 Land Rover Defender - first sighting!
Discussion
the landrover range as I understand it is not that complicated:
............Range Rover ....Discovery........Defender
100K:...Vouge.........................................................
85k:.....Sport...........................................................
65k:......Velar................Discovery........130 (probably)
50K:......Evoque...........7st sport..........110 (probably)
40k...............................5st sport.......... 90 (suspected)
Basically as you move left to right, you get less luxury and more space for the same price point
............Range Rover ....Discovery........Defender
100K:...Vouge.........................................................
85k:.....Sport...........................................................
65k:......Velar................Discovery........130 (probably)
50K:......Evoque...........7st sport..........110 (probably)
40k...............................5st sport.......... 90 (suspected)
Basically as you move left to right, you get less luxury and more space for the same price point
Fire99 said:
And I wonder for this model, does NCAP really matter that much?
Of course it matters - this isn't a car for farmers and green-laners, it's a family car for people who want something a bit more rugged and with the best off road capability of any of it's competitors (Not competitors chosen by PHers but competitors chosen by LR) 300bhp/ton said:
Krikkit said:
When I say serious, I mean business users like utility companies, farmers etc where they put some knobblier tyres on it and send it out to work.
The max articulation case is an extreme outlier to my mind, and most of the time the live axle defenders end up modded to hell to make them better anyway.
But yes, above all, tyres are the critical bit. As the range rover and discovery prove.
I think you make a good point. But let me counter. The max articulation case is an extreme outlier to my mind, and most of the time the live axle defenders end up modded to hell to make them better anyway.
But yes, above all, tyres are the critical bit. As the range rover and discovery prove.
The old Defender is to off roading what an Elise or Caterham is to track performance.
I mean who, for road use really needs a no windscreen Caterham cable of 0-60mph in 3’ish seconds with super adjustable suspension and no interior at all. And semi slick tyres. Nobody at all, none of it is needed to drive at 60mph legal speeds in the U.K. but people “want” it just because....
And for the few that take them on race circuits or even use them for competition. I suspect the majority of Lotus Elise’s sold have never been on a race track for instance.
Do you really need that divers watch rated at 100m or 500m? Even if the only diving you do is in 12 foot deep swimming pool???
t on them. I've owned defenders for 20 years and couldn't care less about axle articulation. It's practical, durable, tows well and looks great. That's what I want from a new one too.
all that fuss with the leaked camouflaged car pictures, while conveniently sporting the marketing slogans on the sides.
it#s a clever ploy by jlr marketing hipsters. the car we see on the pictures is not a defender, but the new freelander. that#s the freelander product managers cunning ruse, as his 2018 targets will be measured by the publics reaction and hashtags posted. 560 posts in general gassing? 200% target achievement.
the accessories list will be interesting. beside the already available spray-on mud, there will be a plastic replica spare wheel, housing the tyre inflation spray, that matches the bonnet. the self-adhesive adventure decoration weighs only 230grams.
+ foil wrap in dip-galvanized optics to imitate the original land rovers body steel cappings. with pre-1962 3d round head rivet look. not the later pop-rivets, that were changed from aluminium to steel in 1989, and then give that rust stain over the body panels.
+ a downloadable app to activate and tune headlight and wiper flickering. costs less than an original iphone connection cable.
+ speaking of tech, we will also enjoy the app for strange noises coming from offside front wheel, when turning right. all authentic via the interiors speakers. all tunable. for a little more, the app will entend to strange engine noises as well.
+ foil wrap in dip-galvanized optics to imitate the original land rovers body steel cappings. with pre-1962 3d round head rivet look. not the later pop-rivets, that were changed from aluminium to steel in 1989, and then give that rust stain over the body panels.
+ a downloadable app to activate and tune headlight and wiper flickering. costs less than an original iphone connection cable.
+ speaking of tech, we will also enjoy the app for strange noises coming from offside front wheel, when turning right. all authentic via the interiors speakers. all tunable. for a little more, the app will entend to strange engine noises as well.
Plenty of people saying this will sell well because they're making it more "normal" - Land Rover already make a range of very capable off-roaders... What exactly is this car going to be?
Like Suzuki (I'll be having one of those in the new year btw), like Jeep and like Mercedes, the new Defender should look IDENTICAL to the old car. Sure, it has to be an off-road workhorse first, but make it less of a drafty damp box. It needs a ground up redesign, but with the look kept the same. It's not rocket science. That's what people want. Make it 50% more tolerable. Make it possible (pleasant even) to do a motorway commute.
Yes you need to design a new chassis, and one that can be modified to take batteries in the future, but spend the money Land Rover. Or lose credibility.
Like Suzuki (I'll be having one of those in the new year btw), like Jeep and like Mercedes, the new Defender should look IDENTICAL to the old car. Sure, it has to be an off-road workhorse first, but make it less of a drafty damp box. It needs a ground up redesign, but with the look kept the same. It's not rocket science. That's what people want. Make it 50% more tolerable. Make it possible (pleasant even) to do a motorway commute.
Yes you need to design a new chassis, and one that can be modified to take batteries in the future, but spend the money Land Rover. Or lose credibility.
My initial reaction was negative but... and I’ll be brutally honest now... if it looks nice, comes with D3/D4ish comfort and practicality, and leaves scope for bolting tat like lights and bars to it then I’ll probably buy one to replace the Cayenne when it dies, even though I might hate myself for a while.
I probably won’t be able to buy another big Diesel engined tow car that isn’t just another same aged Cayenne with less miles, and being in something Landyish will make me feel better about going slow
I probably won’t be able to buy another big Diesel engined tow car that isn’t just another same aged Cayenne with less miles, and being in something Landyish will make me feel better about going slow
Billy_Whizzzz said:
300bhp/ton said:
Krikkit said:
When I say serious, I mean business users like utility companies, farmers etc where they put some knobblier tyres on it and send it out to work.
The max articulation case is an extreme outlier to my mind, and most of the time the live axle defenders end up modded to hell to make them better anyway.
But yes, above all, tyres are the critical bit. As the range rover and discovery prove.
I think you make a good point. But let me counter. The max articulation case is an extreme outlier to my mind, and most of the time the live axle defenders end up modded to hell to make them better anyway.
But yes, above all, tyres are the critical bit. As the range rover and discovery prove.
The old Defender is to off roading what an Elise or Caterham is to track performance.
I mean who, for road use really needs a no windscreen Caterham cable of 0-60mph in 3’ish seconds with super adjustable suspension and no interior at all. And semi slick tyres. Nobody at all, none of it is needed to drive at 60mph legal speeds in the U.K. but people “want” it just because....
And for the few that take them on race circuits or even use them for competition. I suspect the majority of Lotus Elise’s sold have never been on a race track for instance.
Do you really need that divers watch rated at 100m or 500m? Even if the only diving you do is in 12 foot deep swimming pool???
t on them. I've owned defenders for 20 years and couldn't care less about axle articulation. It's practical, durable, tows well and looks great. That's what I want from a new one too.Anyway, it seems JLR is content to let Toyota have the UK market too since they finally released the basic commercial landcruiser that has been dominating the farmers, contractors and builders market in Ireland for decades. They must outsell Defenders 100:1 here.
I think it's great how land rover have gone full circle , rover was the car for the middle classes , big comfy saloons then steel was in short supply post war and the family had a farm so the idea was hatched and the land rover was born , a poor copy of the WW2 jeep then in the 60s they must have seen what jeep was up to with the cherokee and hence the range rover arrived this became the car of choice for landed gentry and royalty now every tom dick and harry has something called a landrover they are middle class again
Not sure what the new defender is for my guess it will be bought by people who want but don't need a 4x4 ...
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Not sure what the new defender is for my guess it will be bought by people who want but don't need a 4x4 ...
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If I were jlr reading this, i would close the project down and move on - the negativity is bizarre. Agreed its not the same as the old defender - but get over it - the new mini wasn't the same as the old one.
If you want to customize something go buy an old version of the model - the vast majority will be used by people who tow horseboxes /livestock trailers and go hunting/shooting and/or visit private schools I suspect.
How many of the true off roader crew actually buy brand new vehicles (not withstanding the utility companies who have gone down the Isuzu/toyota route now) ?
If you want to customize something go buy an old version of the model - the vast majority will be used by people who tow horseboxes /livestock trailers and go hunting/shooting and/or visit private schools I suspect.
How many of the true off roader crew actually buy brand new vehicles (not withstanding the utility companies who have gone down the Isuzu/toyota route now) ?
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