The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T(Vol XIX)

The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T(Vol XIX)

Author
Discussion

Easternlight

3,438 posts

145 months

Wednesday 1st May 2019
quotequote all
stickylabels said:
The Cerb got it's first outing of the year this morning after a jolly good service, wheels re-done etc. Took a while to adjust, forgotten after 6 months just how quick it is. In the interests of curiosity, parked the SRT alongside the Cerb......

How is life with the SRT?

ATM

18,346 posts

220 months

Wednesday 1st May 2019
quotequote all
minimoog said:
Fast Bug said:
On the modern cars are a bit meh I discovered my company daily has a g force meter. It's an E220d estate, quite why it has one I'll never know!

3.4 996 running costs, I reckon I average between £1000-1500 a year. I don't do huge miles, but the car is sat on 140k so its had a busy life.

Bore scoring is more common on the 3.6 from my understanding. Earlier cars had the dual row IMS which is the best one, my indi reckons if they make it to 80k, then they're not going to give any issues.

The 996 is a great car, for a small car I can fit the family in it, it handles well, goes fairly well and with a decent exhaust they sound great
Discovered today the chap who looks after my Frog is selling his 996. Couldn't quite make out the price but I think under 10k. It's a tiptronic though, which wouldn't be my choice.

scratchchin


I daily mine, sort of. Much more recently. Had it just over 2 years now. You can get them for 10 to 16k depending on how fussy you are. Plenty of owners here to ask your questions -

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Cheburator mk2

3,002 posts

200 months

Wednesday 1st May 2019
quotequote all
Patrick Bateman said:
Are there good aftermarket suspension options for the Z4M to improve it on typical UK back roads?

On the tiptronic 911 front, I just don't understand the appeal.
Part of the problem with the stty ride of the Z4MC on British roads were the crap factory fitted Continental M3 specific tyres. The tyre was developed for the E46 M3 back in 1999, it was never great to begin with either. Quite why BMW elected to fit it to its flagship sports car 7yrs later is still beyond me.

I tried Michelin Pilot Cup + on mine and they were a revelation. Add a set of Eibach springs and you are there.

If you want to go GT3 hunting - you will need a 997.2 to get away from a well driven Z4MC - there are plenty of stunning suspension options - Nitron, Intrax, KW V3 CS and Competition, AST, JRZ, Moton, Penske all do sets. O

Crook

6,811 posts

225 months

Wednesday 1st May 2019
quotequote all
Gents

Many thanks for the comments/ replies. It’s a serious pain but there we are. I had really hoped it would be a cracking drive with sensible costs but I guess you can’t have your Kate and Edith too.

Re E46, yes. I did consider one (have had some excellent drives in them) when I was looking at 330s but couldn’t stomach the though of history repeating itself with M3 bills. I know that makes something of a mockery of me now considering a 996. However in my defence I’ve never had a 911 and I really enjoyed the brief drive I had in a C2 of affordable vintage. I think i’ll probably take a few longer drives this time before I jump in!

Re 3.4/3.6 I had read that the earlier cars were less prone due to a thicker wall and something else? I’ll do more reading and/ or look out for a rebuilt one.
I am going to have a drive in an E92 M3 just to see because you never know and the fuel economy in the 240 has softened me up from the heady heights of diesel-dom but if I can get a C2 for mid teens then I can get a little A1 TFSI or something nice fun and reliable for when the inevitable happens and it keeps the SL company making light work of my wallet!

thumbup

Fast Bug

11,762 posts

162 months

Wednesday 1st May 2019
quotequote all
Where in the country are you Crook? You're more than welcome to have a drive of mine at some point. I'm Hants/Surrey borders smile

Crook

6,811 posts

225 months

Wednesday 1st May 2019
quotequote all
That’s a very kind offer. Thank you. I’m in Berkhamsted.

Seeing as I don’t move too quickly on my purchases it may be opportune at the next Scramble?

Aside from that a meet up one weekend wherever would be excellent. thumbup

ess

791 posts

179 months

Wednesday 1st May 2019
quotequote all
Patrick Bateman said:
Are there good aftermarket suspension options for the Z4M to improve it on typical UK back roads?

On the tiptronic 911 front, I just don't understand the appeal.
There were quite a few good suggestions for improvements in the comments section to CH's review; particularly geometry settings with aftermarket kit.
Will maybe get round to making some changes at some point.

Original here, with 22 pages of comments :

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=11...

This also interesting; although very much track focused :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvi6C5zA_3o&t=...

S

Top pup

309 posts

207 months

Wednesday 1st May 2019
quotequote all
Crook said:
I would love a 512TR. Incredible looks, sound, authenticity. cloud9

A short while ago I was sadly singing the praises of an old fwd diesel Seat that was on the way out and looking excitedly forward to getting an M240i.

Long story short: The BMW is not quite what I’d hoped.

If you’ve nothing else going on I’ll explain why.

When I drove my brother’s one I had without realising it magically found myself in its sweet spot of a smooth curvy but not too challenging road. The sort of third gear road that occasionally has you go up to fourth but never down to second. The 240 likes roads like this a lot. The steering is constantly loaded and the revs are sensibly high.
I will admit that this short experience had me smiling broadly and completely sold me on the car.

After a long search for a car with the adaptive suspension I gave up and bought one without. It’s grey with black leather and looks pretty much like any other grey 2 series. I quite like that.

I also like the engine. It pulls and pulls and then pulls some more all the way to 7k. It is noticeably turbocharged by the flat and generous delivery of torque but it does become more urgent as it approaches the red line. It’s no NA ‘S’ engine but it is impressive.

Unfortunately what I don’t like is most of the rest.

To me the car has a superficialness that is at the very least irritating and at worst beyond annoying.
I don’t understand, no that’s not true, I do understand why BMW have done what they have but it is a sad state of affairs that they have felt the need.

There was a Top Gear episode when Clarkson was in an M5 and he was making a meal out of the modes. That was a bit contrived but I feel that the 240 is like that and it’s completely unnecessary. I’m probably going to sound like a bit of a pedant but why it needs 4 driving modes is lost on me.
The default mode is COMFORT which has a particular throttle sensitivity/ sharpness and steering that is horridly light and devoid of any sense of feeling.
The next mode is SPORT which sharpens the throttle and makes the steering heavier. The next is SPORT + which sharpens the throttle further still and part disengages the traction control.
There is a fourth mode which is ECOPRO which deadens throttle response and removes the mpg bar at the bottom of the Rev counter and replaces it with a blue line. It then tells you how many miles you have saved over COMFORT mode rather than your actual mpg. Helpful.

I don’t want to get too distracted by the mpg gauge but it has a blue bit at the end with a battery logo. It only goes into the battery ‘charge/regeneration’ area when you are coasting. As if you are charging a hybrid. It’s not a hybrid and to my knowledge of cars the alternator is charging the battery at all times. This is the sort of bullst nonsense that this car has plenty of.

Back to the driving modes. As a manual BMW decided to aid the driver by Rev matching the gear changes for you with a happy little (perfect) blip. YOU CANNOT TURN THIS OFF. Various forums have suggested that if you do it too your efforts will override the cars. Nope. Some forums have said that SPORT+ disables this. Again, nope. The only way without going into ‘hold this button and go to hidden menu blah’ is to turn the traction/stability completely off.
Fine.
However this then takes the sporty throttle setting and puts it back to comfort but so be it.
What I cannot grasp is that if you hit the speed limiter button either on purpose or by accident it then resets you out of TC off an plonks you back into COMFORT.
Annoying.
Other things that the SPORT settings do are offer you various torque and bhp dials and show glowing drivetrains in a pretty accurate copy of Gran Turismo from several years ago...

Did I mention it has a great engine?

The steering is, as most new cars, electrically power assisted and it’s not great. The steering in the Skoda Octavia site cars we have at work are head and shoulders above it. This further reminds me that the BMW is flawed.

The PH review described the steering as “gloopy” I would add glitchy too.

The suspension isn’t great, it’s very firm and quite choppy. Driving quickly on a non perfect road can have it skipping about a bit under power and spinning up a wheel in third on a damp road isn’t unheard of, oh yes, it has no LSD.
This is a major downside as it makes the rear end unpredictable which makes it annoying.

Sadly the fact that of approximately each 100 cars 90 were specified with the auto box which (I may not be exactly correct on these numbers) cost £1,500.00 rather than a standard manual with the £1,500.00 option of an LSD says that I am not the target audience. It’s as simple as that.

They probably love the fake added drama of sharper throttles ad infinitum and the designed in popping, gurgling and banging of the double exhaust pipes (don’t get me started) and love that on the dashboard it proudly tells you that you bought the second best 2 series with the “M240i” in liquid crystal splendour.

BMW could have made a phenomenal car, called it the 240is or whatever and had a standard and economy map, cut out all of the ‘Sports car’ signifiers sorted the actual tactile bits and just let it be a decent bullst free small sports coupe but they didn’t.

There are other ‘helpful’ things like the anti-roll back brakes that I still haven’t worked out when they will work and when they won’t but living and parking on a hill where having the car leave its brakes on when I want to roll back is wearing thin. Oh and it has more added ‘Sport drama’: when you start the car it revs unnecessary high. Why?

I don’t like that I don’t like it. I have bought a factory fresh modern car that should be great that I had hoped I would have for the next 100k plus of entertaining miles but it’s not going to happen.

This is annoying. I’ve never bought a car and not loved it.

Can anyone tell me the running costs of a 3.4 996 please?

I’ve just read it through and it seems that I hate the car, I don’t. It’s easy to drive alarmingly quickly and it’s a nice place to be but as there are other cars available that do the fast bit without all of the annoying I may as well do that and it’s a good thing I’m not precious about having a new car and the new car convenience because who cares? I’d rather sacrifice a bit of peace of mind for something that seems fine and then ‘bop’ it does something annoying and I think, oh yeah, annoying.

Seriously though, any thoughts on running a 996 as a daily are welcome, I know there are a couple here.

There again, I quite fancy a Citroen C6 for a bit.
I recently when through a similar experience, only the car was an M2.
My thoughts echo your's nearly word for word bar a few exceptions, I didn't even particularly like the engine finding it laggy and flat, and I hated that to get some decent response out of the engine need it to be in sport or sport plus but that came with more artificial engine noise that I couldn't stand.
I didn't even think it was particularly quick as apart from a bit of extra mid range grunt in the lower gears it really wasn't any quicker than my Z4MC.

In short it should of ticked all the boxes for me but I simply grew to hate it, I wanted to like it, I gave it time for me to get used to it, fiddled with settings, got a coding box to switch off things I didn't like, but no I just hated it.

I simply got shot of it in the end, I haven't replaced it yet but I was actually pleased to see it go.


Fast Bug

11,762 posts

162 months

Wednesday 1st May 2019
quotequote all
Crook said:
That’s a very kind offer. Thank you. I’m in Berkhamsted.

Seeing as I don’t move too quickly on my purchases it may be opportune at the next Scramble?

Aside from that a meet up one weekend wherever would be excellent. thumbup
I think the next scramble is a big one? That would work well for a thread meet up too biggrin

ferrisbueller

29,371 posts

228 months

Wednesday 1st May 2019
quotequote all
Cheburator mk2 said:
Patrick Bateman said:
Are there good aftermarket suspension options for the Z4M to improve it on typical UK back roads?

On the tiptronic 911 front, I just don't understand the appeal.
Part of the problem with the stty ride of the Z4MC on British roads were the crap factory fitted Continental M3 specific tyres. The tyre was developed for the E46 M3 back in 1999, it was never great to begin with either. Quite why BMW elected to fit it to its flagship sports car 7yrs later is still beyond me.

I tried Michelin Pilot Cup + on mine and they were a revelation. Add a set of Eibach springs and you are there.

If you want to go GT3 hunting - you will need a 997.2 to get away from a well driven Z4MC - there are plenty of stunning suspension options - Nitron, Intrax, KW V3 CS and Competition, AST, JRZ, Moton, Penske all do sets. O
Really? You need nearly 90bhp extra and an 80 kg weight advantage to see off the Z4?

Is the GT3 driver wearing oven gloves and wellies and restricted to 6,000 rpm?

LaurasOtherHalf

21,429 posts

197 months

Wednesday 1st May 2019
quotequote all
Cheburator mk2 said:
Patrick Bateman said:
Are there good aftermarket suspension options for the Z4M to improve it on typical UK back roads?

On the tiptronic 911 front, I just don't understand the appeal.
Part of the problem with the stty ride of the Z4MC on British roads were the crap factory fitted Continental M3 specific tyres. The tyre was developed for the E46 M3 back in 1999, it was never great to begin with either. Quite why BMW elected to fit it to its flagship sports car 7yrs later is still beyond me.

I tried Michelin Pilot Cup + on mine and they were a revelation. Add a set of Eibach springs and you are there.

If you want to go GT3 hunting - you will need a 997.2 to get away from a well driven Z4MC - there are plenty of stunning suspension options - Nitron, Intrax, KW V3 CS and Competition, AST, JRZ, Moton, Penske all do sets. O
Just my opinion and I'm happy to admit I might be wrong but I disagree completely. The Z4MC (and roadster) were fundamentally flawed in their rear suspension design.

No amount of springs, tyres, anti roll bars or coil over kits can change this.

Toe changes during compression gave made it steer from the rear in ways you didn't expect over bumps. It just didn't work on anything but smooth roads.

I tried all kinds of techniques with mine but the best solution I could find was driving it with the TC on during a lap and knocking it off on certain corners which confused it.

Alright on a lap at a track but not something you could do on your favourite B Road.

As stated on the previous page, I loved mine. But I won't pretend for a second it wasn't a flawed diamond.

braddo

10,611 posts

189 months

Wednesday 1st May 2019
quotequote all
Crook said:
...

Gents

Many thanks for the comments/ replies. It’s a serious pain but there we are. I had really hoped it would be a cracking drive with sensible costs but I guess you can’t have your Kate and Edith too.
...
wavey Catching up on le thread and Crook's updates are truly great posts; the disappointment of new cars and the joy (at least to some) of older ones.

Imagine how all the people in BMW who put together those iconic cars of recent history - E30 M3, the E34 M5, the E36 M3, the E39 M5, the E46 M3/CSL, the V10 and V8 engines of 2005+... - and now they have turbos, electronic farts, sticky tyres, 200kg+ more weight than desired, 90% automatic... cry

It would be interesting to meet some German gents with details of the above...


Cheburator mk2

3,002 posts

200 months

Thursday 2nd May 2019
quotequote all
ferrisbueller said:
Really? You need nearly 90bhp extra and an 80 kg weight advantage to see off the Z4?

Is the GT3 driver wearing oven gloves and wellies and restricted to 6,000 rpm?
Hmm...

[url] https://youtu.be/ntvFFtBjY5E[\url]

Also, I said you would need a 997.2 to be able to leave the Z4MC behind for good... I didn’t say that the Z4MC is quicker. I said that with a few choice suspension mods it would happily hang on to the tails of the GT3 driver, much to his usual frustration... And yes, I am former Z4MC driver and a current GT3 owner...

ferrisbueller

29,371 posts

228 months

Thursday 2nd May 2019
quotequote all
Cheburator mk2 said:
ferrisbueller said:
Really? You need nearly 90bhp extra and an 80 kg weight advantage to see off the Z4?

Is the GT3 driver wearing oven gloves and wellies and restricted to 6,000 rpm?
Hmm...

[url] https://youtu.be/ntvFFtBjY5E[\url]

Also, I said you would need a 997.2 to be able to leave the Z4MC behind for good... I didn’t say that the Z4MC is quicker. I said that with a few choice suspension mods it would happily hang on to the tails of the GT3 driver, much to his usual frustration... And yes, I am former Z4MC driver and a current GT3 owner...
Semi slicks and KW.....

It would be fair to say I have some insight, too.

Leins

9,496 posts

149 months

Thursday 2nd May 2019
quotequote all
ess said:
I still have mine of 6 years now.

Chris Harris was critical of how it drove on UK roads and I would have to agree.
On B roads never feels planted and assured. Picked up another Hawkeye Impreza WRX Wagon for that job.
But on glass-smooth continental roads the Z4MC is a dream and hence comes out once a year for a lengthy Euro schlep.

Here she is stickered-up whilst following the Mille Miglia in 2017.
Norwegian co-driver, good on ice; obviously a critical skill for the MM.

S

wavey S! Congrats on the Scooby. What was the Miglia like as a road-trip?

F1GTRUeno

6,369 posts

219 months

Thursday 2nd May 2019
quotequote all
Leins said:
What about Koenig then? It kind of seems suitably ghastly to me, and befits their mad take on the Testarossa. Points lost for lack of colour-coded mats and speaker grilles though




In a similar vein, where do we stand on Smurf with Smurf?


The Koenig suits the time IMO. Ultimate 80's excess. Like you said, it befits their mad take on the TR.

I love the smurf on smurf too, what I dislike about that is the CSL reps, bumper and black headlights. Stereotypical E46 M3 mods that just look st and detract from how special it is seeing a proper CSL.

Crook

6,811 posts

225 months

Thursday 2nd May 2019
quotequote all
Fast Bug said:
I think the next scramble is a big one? That would work well for a thread meet up too biggrin
:thumb up:
Need to make sure to get tickets early this time.

It sold out far quicker than I was expecting.

Crook

6,811 posts

225 months

Thursday 2nd May 2019
quotequote all
Top pup said:
I recently when through a similar experience, only the car was an M2.
My thoughts echo your's nearly word for word bar a few exceptions, I didn't even particularly like the engine finding it laggy and flat, and I hated that to get some decent response out of the engine need it to be in sport or sport plus but that came with more artificial engine noise that I couldn't stand.
I didn't even think it was particularly quick as apart from a bit of extra mid range grunt in the lower gears it really wasn't any quicker than my Z4MC.

In short it should of ticked all the boxes for me but I simply grew to hate it, I wanted to like it, I gave it time for me to get used to it, fiddled with settings, got a coding box to switch off things I didn't like, but no I just hated it.

I simply got shot of it in the end, I haven't replaced it yet but I was actually pleased to see it go.
It’s a bugger isn’t it?

braddo

10,611 posts

189 months

Thursday 2nd May 2019
quotequote all
' *** Thread purchase! ***

Having had my GT3 for 5 years(!) I've had an amazing time with it but I fancy a break so I have put it into storage for a while. There is no avoiding that as capable as they are, they are still pretty heavy for track fun and 996/997s are all 10-20 years old now yikes so a bit of middle-aged TLC is inevitable. And I'm probably lucky to still have my licence. biggrin

I wanted something more basic and light and decided on getting a road-biased Caterham - something a bit softer, more raw and with lower limits. As if to confirm my decision to give the Porsche a rest its MOT (passed no issues) turned into a £3k bill to sort a couple of minor oil leaks and preventative maintenance on other pipes/fittings... headache

So - a Caterham!



Did I want classic Lotus green with a yellow stripe? Not really, but I did want chrome bits and not-black wheels, a K-series engine, a heater and weather equipment. This one has all that and a nice cammy 135'ish 1.6, a 6-speed box and LSD. I like that it has a spare wheel too for a bit of classic appeal. And progressive shift lights and a rev limit around 7500rpm. biggrin

Thus far it has been on one track evening at Brands and into the depths of Surrey/Sussex on a Sunday morning, as well as pottering around London including the collection of a kid's bicycle in the photo. The general public love it - all the attention takes some getting used to but obvs it's easy when the feedback is only positive. I am loving it so far - great sensations and noise; amazing ride quality while being able to give hell around a race track, blah blah... hehe

Crook

6,811 posts

225 months

Friday 3rd May 2019
quotequote all
Excellent thumbup!