RE: Land Rover Defender | Frankfurt 2019
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
NomduJour said:
Again - what is this car incapable of doing that any of the old Land Rovers and Defenders I’ve used could do?
What is a “Defender” anyway? Fairly silly name (thought up out of necessity when they introduced a second model line) for a car which was an anachronism for all of its existence due to a complete lack of development.
Did you have a little tantrum when the (misnamed) 90 and 110 and 130 arrived with newfangled coil springs? What exactly is it about progress that is so frightening?
Again why don't you accept a Shogun as a Defender then? why do you even bother liking a particular brand if you have no interest or care?What is a “Defender” anyway? Fairly silly name (thought up out of necessity when they introduced a second model line) for a car which was an anachronism for all of its existence due to a complete lack of development.
Did you have a little tantrum when the (misnamed) 90 and 110 and 130 arrived with newfangled coil springs? What exactly is it about progress that is so frightening?
It's like telling someone they shouldn't be called Harry because you don't think they look like a Harry, it's got f**k all to do with your opinion.
Jimbo89 said:
Jader1973 said:
If this is real and not just a show car for Frankfurt then there is a "commercial" version, which presumably doesn't have rear seats, and I'd expect it comes with some sort of plastic tub liner thing in the boot for dead sheep etc given they've thought of every other possible accessory, like the Loadspace Full Protection Liner.
The more I look at this the more awesome I think it is.
Jimbo89 said:
I'd never have bought a Defender (although my brother has a 90) because they're awful to drive and I can't spend my life at 40mph feeling like I'm about to bounce off the road.
Is this true for a Range Rover classic or D1 too?Jimbo89 said:
This new one is perfect, more rugged than the D5 but plush and comfortable for the times when you need to do the mileage. What's wrong with that? Look at the prices of second hand Disco 4's now and it will tell you that there is a huge market for that kind of vehicle.
But this isn't 'new' news. LR recognised this back in the mid 1980's when they pushed the RR more upmarket.Their answer was this:
More plush than a 90 but more rugged than a Range Rover.
This new vehicle is a perfect successor to this and the D4. But none of that really makes it worthy to carry the Defender name, which is just being used to milk short term sales as the expense of the companies heritage.
ben5575 said:
Jimbo89 said:
Jader1973 said:
If this is real and not just a show car for Frankfurt then there is a "commercial" version, which presumably doesn't have rear seats, and I'd expect it comes with some sort of plastic tub liner thing in the boot for dead sheep etc given they've thought of every other possible accessory, like the Loadspace Full Protection Liner.
The more I look at this the more awesome I think it is.Lego Technic Defender, out in October. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smampJ2MIhU
(Buy one before someone writes a load of bullet points about why it's not real Lego)
(Buy one before someone writes a load of bullet points about why it's not real Lego)
camel_landy said:
It wasn't... It was an example of you not listening.
Ironic eh?
Now please, stop spamming this thread.
M
Ironic, no because it wasn't a contradiction. Maybe you need use of a dictionary..... Ironic eh?
Now please, stop spamming this thread.
M
And not listening. You mean I didn't listen to a public speech at an event I wasn't attending. Somewhat different to not listening to someone speaking to me.
How many things have you not listened to today I wonder? I bet there have been announcements all over the country on various topics and ones you are likely interested in and will later ask a question on.
For me it’s a swing and a miss. I like the jump seat, that’s handy to have.
I really don’t like the looks, I don’t really know how to describe it; it’s like it wants to be modern but also a Defender and end up being caught between two stools. Although to be fair I haven’t seen one in real life yet.
I think it’s nowhere near utilitarian enough to be cool/useful like a real Defender, and it seems expensive for what it’s supposedly meant for. I would rather ditch a lot of the tech and fancy interior in order to make it cheaper and inherently more reliable. Then it would be good for either work or “lifestyle” stuff like carting MTBs or camping stuff about.
Perhaps I don’t really understand the market but it seems to me that if you want to spend quite a lot of money on a 4x4 with a nice interior you would buy a discovery?
I really don’t like the looks, I don’t really know how to describe it; it’s like it wants to be modern but also a Defender and end up being caught between two stools. Although to be fair I haven’t seen one in real life yet.
I think it’s nowhere near utilitarian enough to be cool/useful like a real Defender, and it seems expensive for what it’s supposedly meant for. I would rather ditch a lot of the tech and fancy interior in order to make it cheaper and inherently more reliable. Then it would be good for either work or “lifestyle” stuff like carting MTBs or camping stuff about.
Perhaps I don’t really understand the market but it seems to me that if you want to spend quite a lot of money on a 4x4 with a nice interior you would buy a discovery?
300bhp/ton said:
*Edited out more Complete nonsense.....
But none of that really makes it worthy to carry the Defender name, which is just being used to milk short term sales as the expense of the companies heritage.
In your opinion. In my opinion this is a great way to keep the hertiage alive of a product that any other company would have just stopped making.But none of that really makes it worthy to carry the Defender name, which is just being used to milk short term sales as the expense of the companies heritage.
300bhp/ton said:
Again why don't you accept a Shogun as a Defender then? why do you even bother liking a particular brand if you have no interest or care?
Eh? We once had a SWB Shogun van - it wasn’t great off-road and the “conversion” to commercial was a complete afterthought, but in every other objective respect it was a much faster, more refined, more comfortable, more pleasant thing than a contemporary Defender. I still didn’t much care for it (certainly less than the local itinerants did, because they nicked it) - but it was better. Just as this new Defender will be.
300bhp/ton said:
And not listening. You mean I didn't listen to a public speech at an event I wasn't attending. Somewhat different to not listening to someone speaking to me.
You mean you didn't watch the most eagerly anticipated & hyped launch event in the calendar??Even if you didn't watch it live, you haven't even been bothered to catch up with it on YouTube??
Call yourself a Land Rover fan??
Shame on you...
M
Jimbo89 said:
It's like telling someone they shouldn't be called Harry because you don't think they look like a Harry, it's got f**k all to do with your opinion.
You don't understand. This is 300. Arguing to the death that his opinion is "correct" is his thing.Particularly on threads about Yank cars and Land Rovers.
I wonder if he realises how 'on the spectrum' he is?
Jimbo89 said:
ben5575 said:
Jimbo89 said:
Jader1973 said:
If this is real and not just a show car for Frankfurt then there is a "commercial" version, which presumably doesn't have rear seats, and I'd expect it comes with some sort of plastic tub liner thing in the boot for dead sheep etc given they've thought of every other possible accessory, like the Loadspace Full Protection Liner.
The more I look at this the more awesome I think it is.loveice said:
Don't know why people insisting this new Defender has to 'sell' like an X5 or similar. Surely the Discovery and DS need to sell first. Whereas this new Defender should be the relatively low volume model that shows off the LR heritage and just about the break even... just like the new Jimny, Wrangler, Y61 Patrol and G-Class (the demand for such a vehicle is relatively small, but it is there).
Of cause, you may argue that LR simply can't afford to produce a model like Defender that wouldn't sell hundreds of thousands over its lifespan, I agree! Then please Gerry, just admit you made a huge mistake of D5 in terms of its overall design language, and tell people like a man that here is the D6 to correct the mistake. Oh, and formally withdraw Defender name at least for the time being. Who knows in 20 years time LR under some other ownership will be profitable enough to build something just like Jimny, Wrangler, Y61 Patrol or G-Class. Until then, at least to me this should be call the new D6 and I really like it as a Discovery. Btw, D1 had a two door version, so this will be perfect time to tell people the real Discovery is back in both short and standard wheelbase form.
if by "people" you mean, then of course it needs to bloody sell! Why on earth should JLR invest that much in product development and a new platform to build a vanity piece? Their result are awful, they are hemorrhaging jobs and money - this isn't and never was about pleasing the Internet, it's about selling lots of cars. It won't be the highest volume model in their range - but it also won't be a Megane Trophy -R style very limited run model just to get in the magazines - you don't spend literally billions for that. Of cause, you may argue that LR simply can't afford to produce a model like Defender that wouldn't sell hundreds of thousands over its lifespan, I agree! Then please Gerry, just admit you made a huge mistake of D5 in terms of its overall design language, and tell people like a man that here is the D6 to correct the mistake. Oh, and formally withdraw Defender name at least for the time being. Who knows in 20 years time LR under some other ownership will be profitable enough to build something just like Jimny, Wrangler, Y61 Patrol or G-Class. Until then, at least to me this should be call the new D6 and I really like it as a Discovery. Btw, D1 had a two door version, so this will be perfect time to tell people the real Discovery is back in both short and standard wheelbase form.
JLR exists to make money for its owners, like every other business. And in the process employ mostly UK jobs (yes assembled in Slovakia, but still affects jobs here) and bring in tax revenue. Not to please internet forums.
Calling it a Discovery would be absurd, when it evokes the design of the original no less than the Fiat 500, Mini, Ford GT, etc - and when you have so many buyers will doubtless love to own "the new Defender".
300bhp/ton said:
Jimbo89 said:
I'd never have bought a Defender (although my brother has a 90) because they're awful to drive and I can't spend my life at 40mph feeling like I'm about to bounce off the road.
Is this true for a Range Rover classic or D1 too?I strongly suspect that you haven’t spent much time in new cars, or you’re wilfully ignorant to their advances. Similar story about wanting a stripped-out, utilitarian car - how many new twin-cabs are manual, don’t have electric everything, cruise, touch-screens etc?
Cold said:
Lego Technic Defender, out in October. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smampJ2MIhU
(Buy one before someone writes a load of bullet points about why it's not real Lego)
Does it have plastic tread plate?(Buy one before someone writes a load of bullet points about why it's not real Lego)
Aww FFS! just read the small print...
- not compatible.
Edited by The Vambo on Wednesday 11th September 12:16
300bhp/ton said:
No such thing as a 1940's Defender 
you are decades too early.
Wow. So you're that specific? Only an actual Defender will do? You don't even recognise the original Land Rover as worthy of the same association. So specifically you'd basically only have accepted Land Rover making an actual 1980s Defender continuation? you are decades too early.Jimbo89 said:
Jader1973 said:
If this is real and not just a show car for Frankfurt then there is a "commercial" version, which presumably doesn't have rear seats, and I'd expect it comes with some sort of plastic tub liner thing in the boot for dead sheep etc given they've thought of every other possible accessory, like the Loadspace Full Protection Liner.
The more I look at this the more awesome I think it is.ETA - PH, you know it's "straw poll" not "straw pole", right?
Edited by _Neal_ on Wednesday 11th September 12:35
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