EV cars, would you, wouldn't you?
Poll: EV cars, would you, wouldn't you?
Total Members Polled: 427
Discussion
George111 said:
The Evo is a specialist car - most cars will easily do 400-600 miles on a tank and can be refuelled in 5 mins at thousands of stations. If Tesla gave a real range of 600 miles then the lack of charging stations wouldn't be an issue but with the real world range being so low and almost no charging stations, it's not a viable form of transport for the majority of us, a bit like the Evo.
I think that in reality, rather than in range-anxiety world, the Tesla's range is perfectly viable for the vast majority of people - and the expansion of the supercharger network is going to make those edge cases of occasional once or twice a year journeys irrelevant. Most people don't do hundreds of miles a day, they do hundreds of miles a month. In 2013, the average annual car mileage was 658 miles a month.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28546589
George111 said:
As I said previously the drive has been towards batteries not hydrogen - had hydrogen had the vast investment that battery technology has had then we'd see something more competitive.
The Tesla range is very optimistic too.
There has been plenty of investment in hydrogen, what do you think Toyota has been doing for the last 2 decades. The Tesla range is very optimistic too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell_vehicle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai#FCV_con...
Hydrogen fuel cell cars have too much inherent technological barriers to overcome, especially when compared to a battery EV - Which is essentially just a battery with motors - Like the RC cars you played with as a kid.
Don't forget hydrogen fuel cell cars current store hydrogen at 700PSI+, the biggest 'mis-selling' to the public about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that some how every petrol station can be turned into a fuel cell station over night....They cannot, and the cost of installing a hydrogen fuel station is close to £1 million EACH!! That cost doesn't even include on going infrastructure support - and transportation of hydrogen.
http://www.ukhfca.co.uk/2015/04/02/uk-hfca-welcome...
In comparison once a battery EV rapid charger is installed, theres not much else to do. The electricity doesn't need to transported and stored at 700PSI like hydrogen.
The more I look at the technology behind battery EVs versus Hydrogen Fuel cells cars, the more confused I get why a company like Toyota has wasted so much time and money on the Miriai, when they have the known how, and tools needed to develop a full battery EV - After all with the Priuis Toyota has sold more battery EVs than any other manufacture.....Oh well, Nokia didn't seem to care much about the iPhone either....We all know how that has turned out.
Edited by gangzoom on Monday 19th October 16:46
George111 said:
The Evo is a specialist car - most cars will easily do 400-600 miles on a tank and can be refuelled in 5 mins at thousands of stations. If Tesla gave a real range of 600 miles then the lack of charging stations wouldn't be an issue but with the real world range being so low and almost no charging stations, it's not a viable form of transport for the majority of us, a bit like the Evo.
So you cant wait 20 mins on a 500 journey? anonymous said:
[redacted]
The poster refered to having to fill up at 6am in the rain, which you then went all pendant over saying he didn't need to do either. However I took it to be a general comment about how filling up on cold dark mornings when the weather is bad is relatively unpleasant and he likes that he no longer has to do this. Quite straight forward really. anonymous said:
[redacted]
You can say what ever you like, but I'm fully aware of the benefits of EVs. The simple fact is I no longer have the pleasure of walking out to the car, and realising I need to go the nearest petrol station to fill up before work. At 6AM in the rain/cold, I rather be doing something else. Yes I could/should have remembered to fill up the night before, but hey, I sometimes forgot. Many people seem to have an impression living with an EV, especially one with a range of less than 100 miles like my 24kWh Leaf, is inconvenient and not very nice. All I was pointing out in 6 months of owning the car, I've actually found the opposite. If anything I've saved more time by not having to ever think about going to a petrol station and throwing £50-60-70 down the drain whilst I'm there!!!...and with the cold weather arriving, I'm loving the pre-heat option on the car.
Yes I'm luckily enough to have off road parking to charge my Leaf overnight, Yes I don't need to drive 100 miles a day non-stop, but I suspect many people are in a similar position, especially when there are 2 cars in the household.
anonymous said:
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Yes, cost is a significant barrier at this point, but it's coming down. Besides fuelling cost, I would say that silence, performance, the desire to own the newest tech and environmental concerns were all benefits too. And the cost is only really because of the class of cars that Tesla are marketing - they're comparable in price to a similar sized and similarly quick car from Mercedes or BMW. Interesting that you don't think most people could plug them in at night; maybe not in That London, but outside in suburban UK the kind of people with enough disposable income to buy or lease new cars generally have a driveway on their Barratt hutch.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I mean that they have introduced the tech into more expensive market segments first, which makes perfect sense in terms of building up production capacity with higher margin cars. So there is a bar to entry, in the same way that there is a bar to entry to buying a 535d or an E350 (or an M5 or an E63, if you want comparable acceleration to the higher spec Teslas) but if you are in the market for that kind of car there is no great cost penalty in buying an electric one over a comparable petrol or diesel and probably a lower TCO.They are gradually moving down - the 3-series competitor will, I think, be a game changer, and no doubt will later be followed by something Golf sized.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What on earth are you on about??My Leaf is so much MORE refined to drive compared to our Lexus IS300H - Both car are new, the IS300H is the top-spec 'premier' version, with a list price of about £41K. The Leaf is costing me <£5K over 2 years, the sound system and 'pre-crash' safety kit on the Lexus cost about the same!!
Been stuck in traffic in the Leaf is odd, its so quite inside, if I open the windows I quickly have to shut them because all the racket made by the diesel engines clattering around me.
The throttle response is also the reason I was happy to sign on the dotted line for one with-in about 200 meters of starting the test drive. The Leaf may only be a normal hatchback, but it's a better throttle response than any of my previous 'sporty' petrol cars - DC2 Integra Type R, Nissan 350Z, and BMW 335i.
Have you actually driven an EV?? or are you just another 'arm chair expert'
Edited by gangzoom on Monday 19th October 17:52
I drive a Leaf for my daily commute.
It currently saves £250 a month in fuel. (Was £280 petrol, now £25 or so electrickery).
In four years or so it will be a "free" car. AND I love it. Smooth, fast, quiet.....OK...with a very limited range. But I can live with that.
Of course I have petrol cars too. One day that might be unnecessary - but not yet.
It currently saves £250 a month in fuel. (Was £280 petrol, now £25 or so electrickery).
In four years or so it will be a "free" car. AND I love it. Smooth, fast, quiet.....OK...with a very limited range. But I can live with that.
Of course I have petrol cars too. One day that might be unnecessary - but not yet.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Lets not go all textbook when anyone whos drove an EV around urban environments knows they refinement is orders of magnitude better than ICE cars of the same class. Its like hitting a recalibrate button in terms of what you hear and feel in terms of cabin vibrations.Just back from a few days in NYC. The EV debate i see is as hot as ever!
Thing is, they ARE great fun, in their own way. I emptied the battery of the Leaf i borrowed in under 80 miles every time, BECAUSE it was so much fun in town. I am not sure what the 0-60 actually is but the 0-40 was very good.
If we are talking purely about having no engine note, is anyone really telling me a Scooby sounds interesting, or an Evo or S3? The only 4-pots that sound any good as a rule are those with tiny cubic capacity, i e bikes. My Caterham is a fabulous car but does it sound great? No way Jose.
The lack of any much sound in something like a Tesla is an attraction of it's own. The stealthy 'seeya later' experience was real fun when i drove one. It just was.
A lot of people hate the very thought of EVs, as i did until i drove a really fast one then the Leaf in town.
Can an EV be a PH-er car? For many, yes.
Thing is, they ARE great fun, in their own way. I emptied the battery of the Leaf i borrowed in under 80 miles every time, BECAUSE it was so much fun in town. I am not sure what the 0-60 actually is but the 0-40 was very good.
If we are talking purely about having no engine note, is anyone really telling me a Scooby sounds interesting, or an Evo or S3? The only 4-pots that sound any good as a rule are those with tiny cubic capacity, i e bikes. My Caterham is a fabulous car but does it sound great? No way Jose.
The lack of any much sound in something like a Tesla is an attraction of it's own. The stealthy 'seeya later' experience was real fun when i drove one. It just was.
A lot of people hate the very thought of EVs, as i did until i drove a really fast one then the Leaf in town.
Can an EV be a PH-er car? For many, yes.
gangzoom said:
The more I look at the technology behind battery EVs versus Hydrogen Fuel cells cars, the more confused I get why a company like Toyota has wasted so much time and money on the Miriai, when they have the known how, and tools needed to develop a full battery EV - After all with the Priuis Toyota has sold more battery EVs than any other manufacture.....Oh well, Nokia didn't seem to care much about the iPhone either....We all know how that has turned out.
Toyota probably see the writing on the wall . . . without a major breakthrough in battery technology they are too heavy and slow to charge to be useful to the majority of people. The technology is lagging our expectations and needs. Give it another 20 years and maybe that won't be the case . . . ?The Prius is not an EV, it's got a petrol engine to make it useful . . . hence why people feel able to buy it.
liner33 said:
George111 said:
The Evo is a specialist car - most cars will easily do 400-600 miles on a tank and can be refuelled in 5 mins at thousands of stations. If Tesla gave a real range of 600 miles then the lack of charging stations wouldn't be an issue but with the real world range being so low and almost no charging stations, it's not a viable form of transport for the majority of us, a bit like the Evo.
So you cant wait 20 mins on a 500 journey? Even Tesla suggest a domestic socket only gives 6 miles per hour of charge.
http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/models-charging#/...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Have you actually seen what I've been taking about how I use my car.....Its a odd type of traffic jam if your doing 70mph...Equally I'm not sure how long I'll have licence for if I did 70mph on my daily commute through Leicester city centre 
Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 20th October 09:41
George111 said:
So I can get a full charge in 20 mins which takes me 300+ miles, from my parents house to my house ?
Even Tesla suggest a domestic socket only gives 6 miles per hour of charge.
http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/models-charging#/...
A 3 pin plug will give you 6 miles per hour, assuming 3 miles per kWh and 3 KW plug.Even Tesla suggest a domestic socket only gives 6 miles per hour of charge.
http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/models-charging#/...
A 7 KW 32amp home charger (which took an electrician about 2 hrs to install out-side my house), will give 21 miles per charge.
So even if I arrived home at 10pm with 0% charge - plugged the car in, and than was out of the house by 7am - The car will have 189 miles worth of range. Most people simply don't drive that kind of distances day in day out.
If your visiting relatives 300 miles away, unless your planning on staying for 2 hrs and than leaving, you can simply charge overnight. My in-laws have just ordered a Zoe which comes with a free home charger, so visiting them is now easy (They are 150 miles away). My parents are less than 100 miles away, so the Leaf can already reach them with no issues, and recharge via 3 pin plug. Which I've done a number times already. In a Tesla, we'll be able to do the return trip without charging up - But actually probably will stop via Northampton supercharger on the way back to from London, after all if Tesla is giving away free electricity, why not stop for 30 minutes to top up
Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 20th October 09:43
I certainly get the point about quiet and refinement around town. We have to remember that people driving EVs for that purpose would otherwise be driving 4 cyl petrol cars or, even worse, 4 cyl diesels tuned for efficiency (so noisy and rattly as hell) with stop-start and all that other intrusive, noisy and unpleasant technology. By comparison, an EV would be a delight around London.
Alternatively, just don't drive during busy times in cities. That's how I solve that problem Tube or hybrid taxi or bike. Driving at rush hour is a mug's game, no matter what car you are in.
(Driving at less busy times is a different matter - at 6am, it takes me 26 minutes to drive to work, in contrast to 45 minutes by public transport.)
Alternatively, just don't drive during busy times in cities. That's how I solve that problem
Tube or hybrid taxi or bike. Driving at rush hour is a mug's game, no matter what car you are in.(Driving at less busy times is a different matter - at 6am, it takes me 26 minutes to drive to work, in contrast to 45 minutes by public transport.)
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