Best Hot Hatch of the 21st Century – nominations

[GeordieInExile]

Mini Cooper S R53. Bloody love mine.

Okay, so you can only get one bag of shopping in the boot and people in the back who have no legs below the knee. Who cares?

[thelostboy]

Alpinestars said:

There will always be bias in these discussions. What would make it a much more valuable discussion would be posters’ experience of hot hatches generally. Someone who’s never driven car a, nominating car a because they read it was good is unhelpful. As might be situations where posters have limited experience of hot hatches. A reference point is gold.

You're right.

But if it helps, I had a Clio 172 about 12 years ago, have moved up the performance ladder to the likes of GT3s and a Performante, yet have bought a 182 Trophy and feel it is every bit as good as it was back then. From a pure driving standpoint, i'm not sure many cars at any price point better it when you factor in it's accessible limits and inherent 'rightness' for UK roads.

[Olivera]

Regarding the 172/182 - I've never driven one but I very much beleive the accolades are mostly merited.

However, many reviews state the driving position is dogst! What's the truth in this?

The same can be said of the Mk7 Fiesta ST, it might handle great but it feels like you're perched up on stilts.

[frayz]

Olivera said:

Regarding the 172/182 - I've never driven one but I very much beleive the accolades are mostly merited.

However, many reviews state the driving position is dogst! What's the truth in this?

The same can be said of the Mk7 Fiesta ST, it might handle great but it feels like you're perched up on stilts.

Yep standard 172/182 driving position is too high.
Add some Recaro Pole Positions and job jobbed.
To be honest, they drive so well, the seating position barely bothers me anymore.

[keljon]

Gio G said:

The investment Audi made to bring it into production was pretty significant. You do find so many of them modified these days and want to keep mine as standard as possible. Fuel wise, when driving in dynamic mode, I would say it is mid to high 20's MPG (b-roads) in eco setting you will see mid 30's. Having fitted some new Michelin tyres on it recently, in this rain soaked weather, the grip is simply outstanding, just puts a smile of my face when I drive it.

G

Fantastic cars, have owned all of the great hot hatches but for me it's the ultimate b road weapon. A few tweaks to ecu, suspension, brakes and lightweight 17s with decent rubber unlocks so much potential

[Zarco]

Olivera said:

Regarding the 172/182 - I've never driven one but I very much beleive the accolades are mostly merited.

However, many reviews state the driving position is dogst! What's the truth in this?

The same can be said of the Mk7 Fiesta ST, it might handle great but it feels like you're perched up on stilts.

It is pretty awful. Not just the height of the seat, but the whole ergonomic relationship between seat/wheel/pedals is odd.

However I always found it didn't take long to acclimatise and then I didn't notice. Drive another car with a better driving position and come back to a Clio and it feels really odd again. Clutch is heavy too.

[bcr5784]

thelostboy said:

You're right.

But if it helps, I had a Clio 172 about 12 years ago, have moved up the performance ladder to the likes of GT3s and a Performante, yet have bought a 182 Trophy and feel it is every bit as good as it was back then. From a pure driving standpoint, i'm not sure many cars at any price point better it when you factor in it's accessible limits and inherent 'rightness' for UK roads.

+1 I've owned or driven lots of hot hatches over the years, from MK1 Golf GTI onwards - and have had a Cayman 981S and now an A110 Alpine. Only the Alpine matches the Trophy in the fun stakes for me.

Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 4th December 08:10

[davyvee]

thelostboy said:

inherent 'rightness' for UK roads.

This is it with the Trophy.Those dampers are a perfect match for UK roads.

I owned a 987S at the same time as my Trophy and it's composure on crappy roads was laughable compared to the Clios.

[toon10]

frayz said:

Having owned the following:

Clio 182 FF with cup packs - Owned for 4.5 years, sold to buy a:
Mini GP1 - Absolute stbox, hated it, massively overrated and huge downgrade in driver enjoyment, sold to buy:
Porsche Cayman R - Epicness in every way, needed cheap daily which was an:
Fiesta ST150 - Dullest piss warm hatch ever made: Traded it for my original Clio 182 at the top of the list.

Edited by frayz on Tuesday 3rd December 14:31

I think the problem with that ST is that the Fiesta has always been a fantastic handling car but the engine just didn't really work in that one. My mate had one and it always felt like it was a family Mondeo engine in a small hatch rather than an engine designed for the car. It didn't sound great, didn't seem to rev that well and felt heavy over the nose. A very disappointing effort, especially after driving around in a 1.7 Puma which was based on the previous Fiesta chassis if I recall. The Puma probably being the best front wheel car I've ever hurled down a country lane.

[Patrick Bateman]

thelostboy said:

You're right.

But if it helps, I had a Clio 172 about 12 years ago, have moved up the performance ladder to the likes of GT3s and a Performante, yet have bought a 182 Trophy and feel it is every bit as good as it was back then. From a pure driving standpoint, i'm not sure many cars at any price point better it when you factor in it's accessible limits and inherent 'rightness' for UK roads.

To give an idea of perspective, if I won the euro millions I'd still have my Trophy but there's no way I'd have any of the modern hot hatch offerings.

Not many cars now have the nimbleness and zingy character of a truly small, N/A hot hatch, like a terrier pulling at the lead.

Regarding the driving position, it is crap but I'd be amazed if it was a deal breaker.

[frayz]

Even after achieving my dream of a Cayman R, which to me is neigh-on total automotive handling nirvana.
I still made a way to try and require my old Clio 182. To me they're absolutely superb and offer so much more than their price, power or perceived ownership experience.

[thelostboy]

Olivera said:

Regarding the 172/182 - I've never driven one but I very much beleive the accolades are mostly merited.

However, many reviews state the driving position is dogst! What's the truth in this?

The same can be said of the Mk7 Fiesta ST, it might handle great but it feels like you're perched up on stilts.

Reviews certainly picked up on this (it's also quite a long gear change throw). However, journalists jump between many cars and it's easy to pick up on this stuff.

In my opinion, when you own a car for more than a few weeks it simply is what it is; you acclimatise to a new norm. A different car would then feel odd if you jumped into it.

I go from race cars, to vans, to sports cars, to SUVs, to city cars. They're all different, and I could pick holes in most of them, but after a few hours I really am just focused on ride, handling and engine (and how quickly I can connect Bluetooth!).

I would argue if the Clio's seats were bolted to the floor, it would affect visibility and it wouldn't be such a doddle to park - I personally think the seating position is fine for the multi-role car it is meant to be.

[frayz]

thelostboy said:

- I personally think the seating position is fine for the multi-role car it is meant to be.

I think this is bang on.
In addition, newer cars tend to have higher sides and door lines have slowly come up to further protect us in the event of an impact.
This further exaggerates the Clios lower door line and further gives the appearance and feel of sitting "on it" rather than "in it".

Getting in one from a new car is great though, proper pedal weights, brakes and a clutch you actually have to push, and steering feel that almost all modern run of the mill cars just don't have anymore.

[Jester86]

Very interesting breadth of what people like and have opinions on.

I have owned/driven a fair few hot hatches in my driving career so my nominations are dependant on what I have driven.

1. Clio 182 Trophy - One of the best balanced and playful cars I have had the pleasure of owning.
2. Focus RS Mk2 - Test drove one and owned a MK2 ST225. It felt chunky, punchy and looked the part.
3. Abarth 595 Comp - Small, chuckable, incredibly endearing. If Abarth had sorted a few little things I could have liked it more than the Trophy.

But, the best day to day hot hatch for me is my current steer. Mk1 Mazda 3 MPS Aero. Barely noticeable, much improved seating position over the Focus of the same era, a huge amount of space in the back and boot, well equipped and goes amazingly well.

[PADW]

Having owned:
Peugeot 205 1.9
VW Golf GTI Mk1
Ford XR3i
Alfasud Ti x3
BMW Mini Cooper S mk1 Dinan tuned
Abarth Biposto Record Edition

Only two cars qualify under the post 2000 models

So the Ferrari Yellow Biposto wins my vote.

Absolutely brilliant through the mountains of Switzerland 🇨🇭 and Italy 🇮🇹 and heaps of fun through Portugal 🇵🇹 and 🇪🇸 Spain. If its pure grin then I would’ve picked this out of all of them. I really likes all the others too

Abarth Biposto👍🇮🇹💪

[roystinho]

To add a curve ball in there... after 7 renaultsports, currently in an Abarth 595 Competizione with performance pack... 180bhp, LSD, lighter wheels, carbon fibre seats, laughable exhaust... ok, the seating position is a little high, but I’m only 5’7’’ so I’m fine. It’s a good balance that it’s nippy, but not so fast you can’t use it all. I liken it to a modern day Clio 1*2 tbh
Also, because it’s not perfect, takes a bit of time to get the best out of it and learn and lean on its limits, I find it a really fun car - can’t think what I’d change it for after 3 years still

[anonymous-user]

MK1 Audi RS3

[Trophy-GTA]

So when will the results be announced?

Come on 182 Trophy! We all know you’re the true king of hot hatchdom!

[BenLowden]

-------NOMINATIONS NOW CLOSED-------

Massive thanks to everyone for getting involved! I'll create a shortlist ASAP and get a poll up and running for final voting. Keep an eye out here – hopefully later today

[Hub]

Scanning through the thread, the shortlist will look something like this -

Clio 172
Clio 172 Cup
Clio 182
Clio 182 Cup
Clio 182 Trophy
Clio 197
Clio 197 Cup
Clio 200
Clio 200 Cup
Megane RS 225
Megane RS 225 Cup
Megane RS230 R1
Megane R26.R
Megane RS 250
Megane RS Trophy
Megane RS 265
Megane RS Trophy-R
...
...
Golf MkV GTI
EP3 Civic Type R



Funny no-one seems to actually buy Renaults though!