Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[hurstg01]

Sway said:

Petrus1983 said:

Sway said:

Not that down to earth - his head is really far from the ground!

Maybe I got lucky.

I meant more that he is far taller than I'd expected...

[S1KRR]

Dr Gitlin said:

There were four F1s (including an LM) at the Quail on Friday: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/08/these-mclaren...

Great shot of LM2, shows the difference between the LM and series car

They've taken away all the AC and radio control panels. The switchgear to the left and right of the instruments is different / simplified

I also never knew the LM has straight cut gears.

Also, no ignition key? Just the switches to the right? Guessing that additional gauge is gearbox temp or pressure?

[S1KRR]

Wait a second...


Flemke are these your wheels?

[flemke]

k-works said:

Ah, can I get a hint of information?

I'm particularly interested in steering for the past few months.
I'm kinda disappointed with the way Diablo / Murcielago steer.
And also I'm skeptical about the Veyron and RS6 C7.

So far what unites them - is the steering rack/linkage being IN FRONT of the axle itself.
Which makes them weird at the Ackermann geometry because it is much much better to have a steering rack/linkage behind the front axle.

And so, Flemke, can you tell me some info?
I'm sorry, I haven't read the full topic (and other volumes), but it seems you all are having good time here

The questions are somewhat subjective:

- does the car feel awkward with the full lock moving at crawling speeds?
Like as if a small understeer tendency is present and the outer wheel is a bit slipping (especially easy to see outside, i.e. as a spectator, but no idea how often you see your F1 driven by someone else )

- lock-to-lock ratio - ???
some sources say 2:1, others 2.8:1

- does the steering feel somewhat blank in the center? Like first 90 degrees elseway do nothing?
Or 90 degrees of quick steering, then 180 are a bit blank, and then quick steer again?

Sometimes there're blank 180 degrees and then it starts to turn.
At 2:1 lock-to-lock - Tesla Model X P100D Complete junk to turn a steering wheel in.
(that all is so awkward because of the steering rack in front of the axle, lol)

- self-centering feel? (i.e. caster setting)
does it feel like steering easily centers itself in a oversteering condition?
this might also add the desirable weight at higher speeds, but it's worse for cornering sometimes (which can be overcome with high sidewall tires, as they compensate for both).

- do you have to push it somewhat to make it point where you want? apart from where it centers?
Idk if you drive or drive it all out
Owners of that pricey cars are usually in their more generous and wise age, but I'd all out it, if the car allows (i.e. somewhat forgiving on the edge, which F1 is not, probably).

- would you want a quicker steering rack on your F1?
subjective


Thank you!
Curious to know.
Yes, another guy who's up to make his supercars, but maybe a little closer to the target than the others.

No, the car does not have a tendency for the outside wheel to skip or creep at very low speeds.I have seen that on other cars, but not on the F1. The steering is quite heavy at low speeds, which is a different thing.

Steering rack on the road car is 2.8 turns lock-to-lock. On the GTRs is is 2.0 turns lock-to-lock although I do not know what is the difference in ratios because the GTR's wider tyres necessitated reduced total lock.

No, the steering does not completely lose feeling over centre, although as you would expect it is lighter. We have experimented with a range of caster angles; it is pretty sensitive.

Yes, the steering self-centres (that is, if you are oversteering and you let go of the wheel, the car wants to stabilise itself).

No, you don't need especially to push to get the car to point (although that is heavily dependent on many factors).

The steering is quite similar to that on the Elise.

No, I would not want a quicker ratio, but then again in road cars I prefer a relatively slower ratio than some people seem to do.

[flemke]

S1KRR said:

I also never knew the LM has straight cut gears.

That was why the LMs came with ear defenders as standard.

[flemke]

S1KRR said:

Wait a second...


Flemke are these your wheels?

The guy who made my wheels asked if he could borrow the prototype wheels for a weekend and put them on a car that he looks after.

[S1KRR]

flemke said:

The guy who made my wheels asked if he could borrow the prototype wheels for a weekend and put them on a car that he looks after.

I like them a lot. In the unlikely event I own an F1, I'll be asking your permission to get a set made up.

Did you need to soften the suspension on the car to account for the stiffer sidewalls? Or was the OEM setup in your opinion too soft to start with so copes well with the newer tyres?

I saw an onboard vid of a GTR Road conversion and it's, frankly, all over the place on the French road its filmed on. You'd think they'd be slackening off the suspension as much as possible

https://youtu.be/KxvxeI3nZrs?t=1m59s

[flemke]

S1KRR said:

flemke said:

The guy who made my wheels asked if he could borrow the prototype wheels for a weekend and put them on a car that he looks after.

I like them a lot. In the unlikely event I own an F1, I'll be asking your permission to get a set made up.

Did you need to soften the suspension on the car to account for the stiffer sidewalls? Or was the OEM setup in your opinion too soft to start with so copes well with the newer tyres?

I saw an onboard vid of a GTR Road conversion and it's, frankly, all over the place on the French road its filmed on. You'd think they'd be slackening off the suspension as much as possible

https://youtu.be/KxvxeI3nZrs?t=1m59s

The stiffer sidewalls definitely have an effect on the ride. I would say that, as standard, the car is too soft and moves around too much (relatively to its power-to-weight), so some reduction in compliance is an improvement. Having now experimented with a number of different sets of springs, we have settled on spring rates that are similar to factory standard. I may go for slightly softer still, along with a stiffer anti-roll bar.
A couple of owners of F1s have asked if I would sell them sets of the wheels, but I declined. I might, however, make an exception for a fellow PHer.

[k-works]

flemke said:

No, the car does not have a tendency for the outside wheel to skip or creep at very low speeds.I have seen that on other cars, but not on the F1. The steering is quite heavy at low speeds, which is a different thing.

Steering rack on the road car is 2.8 turns lock-to-lock. On the GTRs is is 2.0 turns lock-to-lock although I do not know what is the difference in ratios because the GTR's wider tyres necessitated reduced total lock.

No, the steering does not completely lose feeling over centre, although as you would expect it is lighter. We have experimented with a range of caster angles; it is pretty sensitive.

Yes, the steering self-centres (that is, if you are oversteering and you let go of the wheel, the car wants to stabilise itself).

No, you don't need especially to push to get the car to point (although that is heavily dependent on many factors).

The steering is quite similar to that on the Elise.

No, I would not want a quicker ratio, but then again in road cars I prefer a relatively slower ratio than some people seem to do.

Thanks a lot!
Curious info!
If you have a picture of the inside of the front hub, please, share.

[flemke]

k-works said:

flemke said:

No, the car does not have a tendency for the outside wheel to skip or creep at very low speeds.I have seen that on other cars, but not on the F1. The steering is quite heavy at low speeds, which is a different thing.

Steering rack on the road car is 2.8 turns lock-to-lock. On the GTRs is is 2.0 turns lock-to-lock although I do not know what is the difference in ratios because the GTR's wider tyres necessitated reduced total lock.

No, the steering does not completely lose feeling over centre, although as you would expect it is lighter. We have experimented with a range of caster angles; it is pretty sensitive.

Yes, the steering self-centres (that is, if you are oversteering and you let go of the wheel, the car wants to stabilise itself).

No, you don't need especially to push to get the car to point (although that is heavily dependent on many factors).

The steering is quite similar to that on the Elise.

No, I would not want a quicker ratio, but then again in road cars I prefer a relatively slower ratio than some people seem to do.

Thanks a lot!
Curious info!
If you have a picture of the inside of the front hub, please, share.

This is the best that I can do:

[cc8s]

This probably isn't the most inappropriate place to post this:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/bugatt...

I am interested to see it as noted as '"near production" spec' when infact it has

- aerodynamic changes
- almost 100 bhp more
- structural changes (vis a vis 'an additional safety cell')

Seems a stretch - but good work to them!

Does anyone know what modifications were made to the F1, if any, when it took its record?

[hurstg01]

windscreen wiper was omitted, shut lines were taped over, mirrors removed rev limiter was taken off, Wallace went for a number 1 and number 2 beforehand.....

Edited by hurstg01 on Monday 2nd September 12:00

[Sway]

cc8s said:

This probably isn't the most inappropriate place to post this:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/bugatt...

I am interested to see it as noted as '"near production" spec' when infact it has

- aerodynamic changes
- almost 100 bhp more
- structural changes (vis a vis 'an additional safety cell')

Seems a stretch - but good work to them!

Does anyone know what modifications were made to the F1, if any, when it took its record?

That's a bit cheeky!

Iirc, changes to F1 were fairly minimal - increased rev limit, and I think wing mirrors were removed and panel lines taped.

[E65Ross]

Sway said:

cc8s said:

This probably isn't the most inappropriate place to post this:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/bugatt...

I am interested to see it as noted as '"near production" spec' when infact it has

- aerodynamic changes
- almost 100 bhp more
- structural changes (vis a vis 'an additional safety cell')

Seems a stretch - but good work to them!

Does anyone know what modifications were made to the F1, if any, when it took its record?

That's a bit cheeky!

Iirc, changes to F1 were fairly minimal - increased rev limit, and I think wing mirrors were removed and panel lines taped.

How is it more cheeky than the F1 run? It sounds as if they're going to produce one in the same spec anyway.

[Sway]

E65Ross said:

Sway said:

cc8s said:

This probably isn't the most inappropriate place to post this:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/bugatt...

I am interested to see it as noted as '"near production" spec' when infact it has

- aerodynamic changes
- almost 100 bhp more
- structural changes (vis a vis 'an additional safety cell')

Seems a stretch - but good work to them!

Does anyone know what modifications were made to the F1, if any, when it took its record?

That's a bit cheeky!

Iirc, changes to F1 were fairly minimal - increased rev limit, and I think wing mirrors were removed and panel lines taped.

How is it more cheeky than the F1 run? It sounds as if they're going to produce one in the same spec anyway.

If they're making a production spec car that matches, then fair enough - but to me, the car that achieved 300mph isn't a production car, whereas the F1 that hit 240mph was.

[isaldiri]

Sway said:

If they're making a production spec car that matches, then fair enough - but to me, the car that achieved 300mph isn't a production car, whereas the F1 that hit 240mph was.

Which production customer F1 could rev to 8000+?

[E65Ross]

isaldiri said:

Sway said:

If they're making a production spec car that matches, then fair enough - but to me, the car that achieved 300mph isn't a production car, whereas the F1 that hit 240mph was.

Which production customer F1 could rev to 8000+?

Or had no windscreen wiper

[WCZ]

they're making 50+ editions of that chiron

[Sway]

E65Ross said:

isaldiri said:

Sway said:

If they're making a production spec car that matches, then fair enough - but to me, the car that achieved 300mph isn't a production car, whereas the F1 that hit 240mph was.

Which production customer F1 could rev to 8000+?

Or had no windscreen wiper

My understanding is, all of them. With a quick change to the settings... It was raised by 500 iirc?

Again, anyone can remove a wiper, or add some duct tape.

The way I've read the prep for the Bugatti runs, they actually changed parts/etc.? If not, and it was small config tweaks similar to those done by Mclaren, then fair enough.

[flemke]

isaldiri said:

Sway said:

If they're making a production spec car that matches, then fair enough - but to me, the car that achieved 300mph isn't a production car, whereas the F1 that hit 240mph was.

Which production customer F1 could rev to 8000+?

It wasn't a question of whether the engine was capable of those revs. In order to extend engine life (according to Paul Rosche, it would be "at least 250,000 kms" before a rebuild would be necessary) and also to keep things relatively sane (at the time, ~650 bhp was more than enough, and twenty-five years later it still is), they reckoned that 7500 was right.