RE: Video: Morgan Three-Wheeler Drifting And Burnout
Discussion
Dagnut said:
Thanks For the info, I wasn't having a go it was a genuine question..I have no experience of a single wheel car, just my instinct was telling it would be hard to recover
I didn't think for a minute that you were! Trikes are pretty rare, of those that are on the road, the majority are Robin reliants. After that I guess you're looking at conversions of 2CV's, the Lomax and the Avian. These are great fun, but they are not performance machines. There are several performance trikes, but now you're talking really rare, the Grinnal scorpion, JZR, Triking the Skunk and the T-Rex.
Most people have never seen a performance trike let alone piloted one, but that doesn't seem to stop people spouting rubbish about them!
A chap called Elvis rins an excellent website dedicated to the history of trikes for those interested:
http://www.3wheelers.com/
For those interested in the niceties of trike handling, R Q Riley has posted this excellent paper. He explains things much better than I ever could.
http://www.rqriley.com/3-wheel.htm
I once was lucky enough to get to drive one of the last of the old 3 wheelers, for a few miles. This one had the Matchless V twin rebuilt at 1300cc, & I was totally blown away by the thing.
I drove it out of a deep valley, up the escarpment road, with lots of hairpins. With all that torque, & so little weight, it was quite quick, without trying at all.
I was also lucky enough to get to listen to about 10 of them, leading a parade lap of Bathurst circuit, at the Morgan muster, some years back. The sound of the exhausts, of those big hairy twins, echoing around the mountain has to be experienced, no description can do it justice.
I think I'll have to have one, when I get sick of the S2000, it would be the next best thing to owning a WW11 Spitfire.
I drove it out of a deep valley, up the escarpment road, with lots of hairpins. With all that torque, & so little weight, it was quite quick, without trying at all.
I was also lucky enough to get to listen to about 10 of them, leading a parade lap of Bathurst circuit, at the Morgan muster, some years back. The sound of the exhausts, of those big hairy twins, echoing around the mountain has to be experienced, no description can do it justice.
I think I'll have to have one, when I get sick of the S2000, it would be the next best thing to owning a WW11 Spitfire.
How are these laid out?
I presume the gearbox is as you'd expect on a normal 4 wheeled RWD car? But does the drive shaft then run off centre? Is there a hub at the rear with a set of hypoid or bevel gears (like a shaft drive bike I guess?)
Do they even use a shaft to drive the wheels? Chain?
Whats the rear suspension like? Like a bike?
I presume the gearbox is as you'd expect on a normal 4 wheeled RWD car? But does the drive shaft then run off centre? Is there a hub at the rear with a set of hypoid or bevel gears (like a shaft drive bike I guess?)
Do they even use a shaft to drive the wheels? Chain?
Whats the rear suspension like? Like a bike?
snotrag said:
How are these laid out?
I presume the gearbox is as you'd expect on a normal 4 wheeled RWD car? But does the drive shaft then run off centre? Is there a hub at the rear with a set of hypoid or bevel gears (like a shaft drive bike I guess?)
Do they even use a shaft to drive the wheels? Chain?
Whats the rear suspension like? Like a bike?
mazda gearbox behind v-twin engine, shaft drive converted to belt for rear wheel. rear wheel suspended by double sided swing arm and a pair of shocksI presume the gearbox is as you'd expect on a normal 4 wheeled RWD car? But does the drive shaft then run off centre? Is there a hub at the rear with a set of hypoid or bevel gears (like a shaft drive bike I guess?)
Do they even use a shaft to drive the wheels? Chain?
Whats the rear suspension like? Like a bike?
bennno
Great paintjob on that!
I've loved 3-wheelers ever since my Uncle had a Lomax a few years ago (bought on eBay while drunk apparently)
I took it for a spin, it was an awful car, but an utter hoot to drive! It wallowed around like a boat, the turning circle was so bad you had plan which roads you went on but I had a grin for the entire time so god knows how fun it'd be to drive a 3-wheeler that actually handled, had more than 20 odd horse power and could navigate a T-junction without having to do a 3-point-turn!
I've loved 3-wheelers ever since my Uncle had a Lomax a few years ago (bought on eBay while drunk apparently)
I took it for a spin, it was an awful car, but an utter hoot to drive! It wallowed around like a boat, the turning circle was so bad you had plan which roads you went on but I had a grin for the entire time so god knows how fun it'd be to drive a 3-wheeler that actually handled, had more than 20 odd horse power and could navigate a T-junction without having to do a 3-point-turn!
Farmer said:
You can buy a top notch kit for far less with a Moto Guzzi ...just need spanner skills ...oh wait, thumbs are for Blackberry bashing now aren't they ..
judging from the number of deposits lodged (500+) I guess the appeal of a factory built, warrantied, 2100cc twin, Morgan badged 3 wheeler is deemed more attractiveits either very expensive or very inexpensive dependent upon your outlook
bennno
mikeveal said:
Do you think so? In which part of the video is the car not coping? It all looked driver induced and controlled to me.
My trike is putting 50% more power down through the rear than the Morgan, it copes very well thank you.
I generally find that disparaging comments about three wheelers come from people who don't understand the handling dynamics, have never driven one or been a passenger. Or of course all three.
I was just thinking that if it had 100BHp and 2 rear wheels even with similar weight it probably wouldn't donut / burn out that easily, so on occasions when attempting to accelerate hard you would get wheelspin not traction. My trike is putting 50% more power down through the rear than the Morgan, it copes very well thank you.
I generally find that disparaging comments about three wheelers come from people who don't understand the handling dynamics, have never driven one or been a passenger. Or of course all three.
I am sure it has appeal and bags of character but for ultimate performance isnt it a bit flawed?
I can see the appeal and why morgan have done it, however it would appeal more to me with a bit more power and 4 wheels.
each to their own though!
How utterly superb that in this age of boring, identikit cars where even supercars have become a little soulless, that someone is bonkers enough to produce this! And its British!!! 
OK so it may not be the fastest or best handling thing you could buy for the money but think about it - what else on todays congested, GATSOed roads could be anywhere near as much fun? And they sound magnificent. I really, really want to buy one and keep it forever. Just the small matter of 30 grand - how much do kidneys go for these days?
OK so it may not be the fastest or best handling thing you could buy for the money but think about it - what else on todays congested, GATSOed roads could be anywhere near as much fun? And they sound magnificent. I really, really want to buy one and keep it forever. Just the small matter of 30 grand - how much do kidneys go for these days?
bennno said:
judging from the number of deposits lodged (500+) I guess the appeal of a factory built, warrantied, 2100cc twin, Morgan badged 3 wheeler is deemed more attractive
its either very expensive or very inexpensive dependent upon your outlook
bennno
Oh I quite agree. It's not expensive for what it is, but lots of comments here seem to say they'd love the car but it's too expensive to justify for them , I'm merely pointing them down an equally exciting path they may be able to afford with their outlook. It's all good , a win win situation.its either very expensive or very inexpensive dependent upon your outlook
bennno
We got to drive the black prototype on the roads round Goodwood today, great fun and a car that will bring a smile to my face every time I sit in it. A longer write-up of our drive is here: http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/64...
I have to say that when I saw one at the recent VSCC/Brooklands Double Twelve Festival my initial enthusiasm was cooled by several factors:
a. Traction IS an issue for a car that has a long and distinguished competition history. On a longer race the original car had always been very competitive, however on the sprint format for the days competition the lack of traction was a very big disadvantage for the older car. Of course if you want to pootle around on the road you may say 'I really dont care' and in anycase the rear wheel on the new car is a very different animal, but that brings me on to my other concerns.
b. The traction drawback though was nothing to my unease when the rear bodywork was removed. The combination of very skinny front tyres, which look very period, whilst at the rear a modern wide tyre was a very worrying combination asthetically speaking; like someone had joined one old and one new vehicle in a bizarre cut and shut. Imagine the front of a Ferrari 212 welded to the rear of a 458 and then disguised to hide the deception!
c.For a road vehicle this little car is going to have a truly epic power to weight ratio. Given that the original road going Morgan had about 40hp; what kind of balance is this car going to have on the twisty stuff, even given the the vintage look-alike tyres will no doubt contain much modern material.
The whole concept started to look very shaky indeed and my initial excitement at reading about this on PH dissolved into a feeling of unease. Naturally I hope that Iam wrong about its dynamic qualities, but asthetically.......no, that will remain like the sensation you get on that inital exchange of looks on a blind date, when you realise that all of that excited anticipation has simply become disenchantment.
Ian
a. Traction IS an issue for a car that has a long and distinguished competition history. On a longer race the original car had always been very competitive, however on the sprint format for the days competition the lack of traction was a very big disadvantage for the older car. Of course if you want to pootle around on the road you may say 'I really dont care' and in anycase the rear wheel on the new car is a very different animal, but that brings me on to my other concerns.
b. The traction drawback though was nothing to my unease when the rear bodywork was removed. The combination of very skinny front tyres, which look very period, whilst at the rear a modern wide tyre was a very worrying combination asthetically speaking; like someone had joined one old and one new vehicle in a bizarre cut and shut. Imagine the front of a Ferrari 212 welded to the rear of a 458 and then disguised to hide the deception!
c.For a road vehicle this little car is going to have a truly epic power to weight ratio. Given that the original road going Morgan had about 40hp; what kind of balance is this car going to have on the twisty stuff, even given the the vintage look-alike tyres will no doubt contain much modern material.
The whole concept started to look very shaky indeed and my initial excitement at reading about this on PH dissolved into a feeling of unease. Naturally I hope that Iam wrong about its dynamic qualities, but asthetically.......no, that will remain like the sensation you get on that inital exchange of looks on a blind date, when you realise that all of that excited anticipation has simply become disenchantment.
Ian
Edited by Ipelm on Thursday 30th June 23:39
Ipelm said:
I have to say that when I saw one at the recent VSCC/Brooklands Double Twelve Festival my initial enthusiasm was cooled by several factors:
a. Traction IS an issue for a car that has a long and distinguished competition history. On a longer race the original car had always been very competitive, however on the sprint format for the days competition the lack of traction was a very big disadvantage for the older car. Of course if you want to pootle around on the road you may say 'I really dont care' and in anycase the rear wheel on the new car is a very different animal, but that brings me on to my other concerns.
b. The traction drawback though was nothing to my unease when the rear bodywork was removed. The combination of very skinny front tyres, which look very period, whilst at the rear a modern wide tyre was a very worrying combination asthetically speaking; like someone had joined one old and one new vehicle in a bizarre cut and shut. Imagine the front of a Ferrari 212 welded to the rear of a 458 and then disguised to hide the deception!
c.For a road vehicle this little car is going to have a truly epic power to weight ratio. Given that the original road going Morgan had about 40hp; what kind of balance is this car going to have on the twisty stuff, even given the the vintage look-alike tyres will no doubt contain much modern material.
The whole concept started to look very shaky indeed and my initial excitement at reading about this on PH dissolved into a feeling of unease. Naturally I hope that Iam wrong about its dynamic qualities, but asthetically.......no, that will remain like the sensation you get on that inital exchange of looks on a blind date, when you realise that all of that excited anticipation has simply become disenchantment.
Ian
Yikes....just a bit of fun though eh ? a. Traction IS an issue for a car that has a long and distinguished competition history. On a longer race the original car had always been very competitive, however on the sprint format for the days competition the lack of traction was a very big disadvantage for the older car. Of course if you want to pootle around on the road you may say 'I really dont care' and in anycase the rear wheel on the new car is a very different animal, but that brings me on to my other concerns.
b. The traction drawback though was nothing to my unease when the rear bodywork was removed. The combination of very skinny front tyres, which look very period, whilst at the rear a modern wide tyre was a very worrying combination asthetically speaking; like someone had joined one old and one new vehicle in a bizarre cut and shut. Imagine the front of a Ferrari 212 welded to the rear of a 458 and then disguised to hide the deception!
c.For a road vehicle this little car is going to have a truly epic power to weight ratio. Given that the original road going Morgan had about 40hp; what kind of balance is this car going to have on the twisty stuff, even given the the vintage look-alike tyres will no doubt contain much modern material.
The whole concept started to look very shaky indeed and my initial excitement at reading about this on PH dissolved into a feeling of unease. Naturally I hope that Iam wrong about its dynamic qualities, but asthetically.......no, that will remain like the sensation you get on that inital exchange of looks on a blind date, when you realise that all of that excited anticipation has simply become disenchantment.
Ian
Edited by Ipelm on Thursday 30th June 23:39
Ipelm said:
I have to say that when I saw one at the recent VSCC/Brooklands Double Twelve Festival my initial enthusiasm was cooled by several factors:
a. Traction IS an issue for a car that has a long and distinguished competition history. On a longer race the original car had always been very competitive, however on the sprint format for the days competition the lack of traction was a very big disadvantage for the older car. Of course if you want to pootle around on the road you may say 'I really dont care' and in anycase the rear wheel on the new car is a very different animal, but that brings me on to my other concerns.
b. The traction drawback though was nothing to my unease when the rear bodywork was removed. The combination of very skinny front tyres, which look very period, whilst at the rear a modern wide tyre was a very worrying combination asthetically speaking; like someone had joined one old and one new vehicle in a bizarre cut and shut. Imagine the front of a Ferrari 212 welded to the rear of a 458 and then disguised to hide the deception!
c.For a road vehicle this little car is going to have a truly epic power to weight ratio. Given that the original road going Morgan had about 40hp; what kind of balance is this car going to have on the twisty stuff, even given the the vintage look-alike tyres will no doubt contain much modern material.
The whole concept started to look very shaky indeed and my initial excitement at reading about this on PH dissolved into a feeling of unease. Naturally I hope that Iam wrong about its dynamic qualities, but asthetically.......no, that will remain like the sensation you get on that inital exchange of looks on a blind date, when you realise that all of that excited anticipation has simply become disenchantment.
Ian
I'm sorry, but eh?? WTF? and a load more I probably shouldn't type.a. Traction IS an issue for a car that has a long and distinguished competition history. On a longer race the original car had always been very competitive, however on the sprint format for the days competition the lack of traction was a very big disadvantage for the older car. Of course if you want to pootle around on the road you may say 'I really dont care' and in anycase the rear wheel on the new car is a very different animal, but that brings me on to my other concerns.
b. The traction drawback though was nothing to my unease when the rear bodywork was removed. The combination of very skinny front tyres, which look very period, whilst at the rear a modern wide tyre was a very worrying combination asthetically speaking; like someone had joined one old and one new vehicle in a bizarre cut and shut. Imagine the front of a Ferrari 212 welded to the rear of a 458 and then disguised to hide the deception!
c.For a road vehicle this little car is going to have a truly epic power to weight ratio. Given that the original road going Morgan had about 40hp; what kind of balance is this car going to have on the twisty stuff, even given the the vintage look-alike tyres will no doubt contain much modern material.
The whole concept started to look very shaky indeed and my initial excitement at reading about this on PH dissolved into a feeling of unease. Naturally I hope that Iam wrong about its dynamic qualities, but asthetically.......no, that will remain like the sensation you get on that inital exchange of looks on a blind date, when you realise that all of that excited anticipation has simply become disenchantment.
Ian
Edited by Ipelm on Thursday 30th June 23:39
But you are correct on one point - I really don't think this car is for you at all, because you seem to be totally missing the obvious and fundamental appeal of it.
Charge99 said:
Looks very cool, but I wouldn't have one, mainly as the side impact protection is your arm!
A wind up surely- "car types" don't really think like that...or maybe there really are people who buy on NCAP ratings.. Oh well, the sun is shining, better grab a T-shirt and get out on the Zed 1000...mikeveal said:
I don't think it's a case of what they "could" produce it for Carl. It's more of a case of what price the market can stand. If you can sell out for 30K, why sell for 20K? Second had 1930's Morgan trikes will fetch £30K plus. You can buy a new Triking for 20K, but it's a replica not a Morgan. The real thing is able to command more cash.
Whether or not we consider that its worth it is irrelevant, there appear to be enough buyers that do!
Surely the only question from Morgan's point of view, is whether they can make more profit at 20k or 30k. If they'd sell twenty times as many at 20k (which wouldn't surprise me at all) and they have the production capability, I wouldn't be surprised if they could. Of course we have little idea what it costs Morgan to build these things, I don't know how much component sharing they manage with their other cars and how much is bespoke. Whether or not we consider that its worth it is irrelevant, there appear to be enough buyers that do!
I'd love something like your Skunk if I was after a toy (the main reason I didn't buy a kit instead of the Elise was that it's my only car), but having seen how long it took you, I could never commit the time to build it (or to weld the bits that fall off, back on).
Edited by kambites on Friday 1st July 09:07
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