RE: German Supercar Aims For 2800hp

[luke g28]

Kazlet said:

Dont forget that the bizarre way Mazda seem to think they can rate their engine the 1.3Ltr actually sucks in and burns 3.9Ltr of air and fule every revolution of the rotor.
This means the "2.6Ltr" race motor is actually over 7.8Ltr which make the performance look 'unsuprising' which is probably why they like to 'suggest' its so much smaller than it really is.
Once you start adding turbos you can have any power you want...within reason obviously.

You cant really measure it that way either.

Unless you want to quote engine size at a particular atmos pressure, RPM and BHP output. Its fairly obvious that the engine size will not change after a remap yet your car will likely use more air / fuel. Or by bolting a turbo on, you will not increase the engine size yet loads more air and fuel will be used.

The physical size of the engine will not change when the efficiency of the burn is changed.

IIRC mazda have filled one of their rotor chambers (?) with liquid and quoted that as the displacement, i.e. the volume of the engine.

[Robmarriott]

luke g28 said:

You cant really measure it that way either.

Unless you want to quote engine size at a particular atmos pressure, RPM and BHP output. Its fairly obvious that the engine size will not change after a remap yet your car will likely use more air / fuel. Or by bolting a turbo on, you will not increase the engine size yet loads more air and fuel will be used.

actually on a remapped naturally aspirated car, unless it's a Mini One (when the throttle opens more to 100% not 60% or whatever it is), you won't be using more air. More fuel yes, but more air would be impossible unless the remap affected swept volume of the cylinders.

[edit] unless you know differently of course, in which case, feel free to enlighten me how an engine can suck in more air after a software change affecting injector pulse timing/duration

Edited by Robmarriott on Tuesday 30th August 14:45

[marcosgt]

luke g28 said:

Kazlet said:

Dont forget that the bizarre way Mazda seem to think they can rate their engine the 1.3Ltr actually sucks in and burns 3.9Ltr of air and fule every revolution of the rotor.
This means the "2.6Ltr" race motor is actually over 7.8Ltr which make the performance look 'unsuprising' which is probably why they like to 'suggest' its so much smaller than it really is.
Once you start adding turbos you can have any power you want...within reason obviously.

You cant really measure it that way either.

Unless you want to quote engine size at a particular atmos pressure, RPM and BHP output. Its fairly obvious that the engine size will not change after a remap yet your car will likely use more air / fuel. Or by bolting a turbo on, you will not increase the engine size yet loads more air and fuel will be used.

IIRC mazda have filled one of their rotor chambers (?) with liquid and quoted that as the displacement, i.e. the volume of the engine.

And most insurers treat it as a 2.6 for some reason - Something to do with compressions per cycle?

Each rotor chamber is 650cc so the two rotor engine is 1300cc and the 4 raced at Le Mans was a 2600cc (or 5200cc in 'real' terms).

This project does smack of 'back of a keller bier map calculation' special though!

M

[AndyCzech]

I'd like to leave a deposit.

A lot of discussion about the performance figures, did anyone call the phone number for further clarification?

[carnut360]

Who said that the germans did not have a sense of humour!

[Andysywv]

Say, for instance, they manage to make a car with MOST if this performance, will it even be allowed on public roads ?

Brings true meaning to the phrase - 'I'll be there in a two ticks'

[Ashok]

I hope this is not some kind of con to lure in unsuspecting investors.

[10 Pence Short]

2800bhp? That's nothing.

The phantom specsheet of the car I'm never going to produce has 50,000bhp and runs on air. I wouldn't even get out of virtual pretend bed to write a make believe specsheet with my invisible pen for 2800bhp.

[jon-]

10 Pence Short said:

2800bhp? That's nothing.

The phantom specsheet of the car I'm never going to produce has 50,000bhp and runs on air. I wouldn't even get out of virtual pretend bed to write a make believe specsheet with my invisible pen for 2800bhp.

50,000bhp you say... runs on thin air you say... that sounds Titanic

[Transmitter Man]

Not so sure about 0-250mph in 7 sec's for a rotary but 0-190 in 7 sec's out of a rotary is fast enough for me:

http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p319/axelf1711/...

Phil

[OdramaSwimLaden]

With that sort of acceleration "ze Germans" would be in and out before you'd have even realised you've been invaded.

[B10]

What are "aspired achievements"?

[anonymous-user]

cookie1600 said:

Here we go, a bit more info from last year:

The powertrain is controlled by an engine management system, specifically developed from Bosch Engineering GmbH for the RSC Raptor GT™

Clearly written by someone with no experience of actually working with BOSCH.........


(that little lot, with custom code for their platform, validated to BOSCH global stds (which you have to do or they won't sell you anything) would set you back in the order of £100M to £150M on it's own. Now, even if they sell 100 cars (unlikely) that means they would have to be over £1M a unit just to pay for the electronics...........

[Mr Whippy]

B10 said:

What are "aspired achievements"?

Achievements they aspire to meet.

In cloud cuckoo land of course

[British Beef]

2800bhp should be achievable given that the NA 4 rotor Le Mans winning Mazda of '91 (I think) produced officially about 900hp in race spec and ran 24hrs non stop with no major wear to the engine or the rotor tips. So much so they stated the engine could have run race distance 2 more times - although the chassis couldnt!!

So 20 + years ago a NA quad rotor engine could produce near enough 1000hp, technically a turbocharged 8 rotor modern day engine with no restrictions governing capacity, should be able to make 2800hp.

I am not sure there is a market for it though!!

[soad]

ZOLLAR said:

I'll believe it when I see it.

Yup, same here.

Insane sounding spec there!!

[marksx]

Strong stuff that German beer. Drinking in work hours is bad for you.

[Vocal Minority]

Robmarriott said:

isn't going to be a cheap service.

Edited by Robmarriott on Tuesday 30th August 12:59

I think that rather goes without saying....

[miln0039]

Cool...it's going to have integrated Bluetooth.

[Dirty]

Oddball RS said:

0-62mph in 0.9secs


How?

Drop it off a tall building?