Nasty Ring accident today at Bergwerk
Discussion
Porkie said:
Its an amazing experience. If you are worried, then do it in a hire car thats properly insured from Rent4ring or RSR.
I've fortunate to have been lots in my own cars and plenty of times in Clios/Meganes from RSR.
Just an amazing amazing place. Yes its busy and dangerous at times on TF days. But its not always busy first thing in morning or last thing in the evening on alot of TF days.
Or do a proper Trackday there. They are awesome fun.... expecially when they link the GP circuit in as well.
Forgive the quote but this man has it spot on.I've fortunate to have been lots in my own cars and plenty of times in Clios/Meganes from RSR.
Just an amazing amazing place. Yes its busy and dangerous at times on TF days. But its not always busy first thing in morning or last thing in the evening on alot of TF days.
Or do a proper Trackday there. They are awesome fun.... expecially when they link the GP circuit in as well.
UltimaCH said:
Mixing bikes and cars is a no-no. Don't know if they still do it though
They've never NOT done it, at least not on Touristfahrten. It's been discussed and rejected several times. Not sure whether they ever did a trial but I believe not.I'v said it before but the place is a victim of it's own success. 10-12 years ago it was an utterly different experience. I've hundreds of laps under my belt, both tourist and closed track, and the vast majority were on 2 wheels not 4, but I haven't ridden a bike around there for probably 4 years or more now, and unless I take a few quiet laps one midweek evening when it's only open for a couple of hours, I doubt I ever will.
Will be there next weekend in a car and will probably take a steady lap or two with MrsC as co-pilot, as she's never been round.
10 years ago, before it has been sensationalised through the likes of Top Gear, it was a great place to go for a weekend, but as every year has gone on, the number of people there every tourist day has increased exponentially.I've not been for 2 years now, as the last time we were countless accidents. We just managed to get our 8 laps in, and that was without coming back into the car park, as the queues out onto the road meant you cannot get back on without huge delays
A fantastic place to drive, but the mixture of good to bad driving, good to bad cars, bikes/cars and coaches is making crashes and closures more common place which is a real shame.
A fantastic place to drive, but the mixture of good to bad driving, good to bad cars, bikes/cars and coaches is making crashes and closures more common place which is a real shame.
Porkie said:
JonnyFive said:
I think even from R4R you still have a massive excess?
Obviously it depends on what you call massive Personally I think its very very reasonable considering what you are doing and the potential costs you COULD incur!!!!
When we went, it was just after a bank holiday.. So I guess it was quiter because of that, still had the obligatory Porsches flying around like you're not there but other than that it was fine. Not even one track closure.
thewheelman said:
Remember, the Nurburgring claims on average 12 deaths a year. Usually the 'ring gets closed several times a day for clean ups etc. This is only news due to the cars involved. As i said, you'd see far bigger accidents than this on a regular basis.
Remember that those are only the ones who die on the tarmac. If you die in the heli or the hospital, they don't count it as a Ring death.UltimaCH said:
Mixing bikes and cars is a no-no. Don't know if they still do it though
Yep, bikes/buses/cars all share the track at the same time. Often bikes are restricted if there has been a repaired/treated oil spill, but I agree that it's madness for cars/bikes to be on at the same time.I was there the weekend before last and there were multiple incidents, you've just got to drive to how far you can see and hope that no-one takes you out as what happened this weekend.
You take your choice.............
Still love it though!
Edited by Martian O on Monday 3rd October 12:18
thewheelman said:
Wrong! http://nurburgring.org.uk/insurance.php People really need to get their insurance checked before hand.
It sounded too good to be true that UK insurance companies would cover for accidents at the ring. But are there people on here with personal experiences of being stung for large third party costs?I wouldn't bother asking my Swiss insurers as no doubt I would not be covered. Over here the insurance company can in theory reclaim from you anyway, even if you are driving on the road and so fully covered, if you are deemed to have been negligent or driving dangerously (sometimes I get the feeling that anything above walking pace is seen as potentially dangerous by the Swiss!)
Schnellmann said:
I wouldn't bother asking my Swiss insurers as no doubt I would not be covered. Over here the insurance company can in theory reclaim from you anyway, even if you are driving on the road and so fully covered, if you are deemed to have been negligent or driving dangerously (sometimes I get the feeling that anything above walking pace is seen as potentially dangerous by the Swiss!)
Plus the added risk in Switzerland that it could well be your neighbour that reports you for speeding / etc....thewheelman said:
Remember, the Nurburgring claims on average 12 deaths a year. Usually the 'ring gets closed several times a day for clean ups etc. This is only news due to the cars involved. As i said, you'd see far bigger accidents than this on a regular basis.
The thing I found scary was that the number reported as being "Nurburgring deaths" were only the people who died at the scene. The various people who were still alive as they drove off in the ambulance would not count as "Nurburgring deaths" even if they died on arrival at the hospital.I'd be interested to know where the 12 number came from though.
C
Clearspring said:
Porkie said:
Its an amazing experience. If you are worried, then do it in a hire car thats properly insured from Rent4ring or RSR.
I've fortunate to have been lots in my own cars and plenty of times in Clios/Meganes from RSR.
Just an amazing amazing place. Yes its busy and dangerous at times on TF days. But its not always busy first thing in morning or last thing in the evening on alot of TF days.
Or do a proper Trackday there. They are awesome fun.... expecially when they link the GP circuit in as well.
Forgive the quote but this man has it spot on.I've fortunate to have been lots in my own cars and plenty of times in Clios/Meganes from RSR.
Just an amazing amazing place. Yes its busy and dangerous at times on TF days. But its not always busy first thing in morning or last thing in the evening on alot of TF days.
Or do a proper Trackday there. They are awesome fun.... expecially when they link the GP circuit in as well.
but some people try and make out that its ridiculously dangerous and finacial suicide....
Its DOESN'T have to be at all. Protect yourself in a properly insured rental. Or sort your own insurance out properly and not just cross your fingers and presume you are insured.
I took my little sister out to the Ring for her first time this year. She LOVED it. Told her to drive it like a 2 lane country road. Stick to her side of the road and watch her mirrors all the time. I took her for one sighting lap and then left her to her own devices and drove on my own. She Loved it. Was a busy TF weekend....
She also LOVED the atmosphere and seeing the whole place, drinking in PK etc etc.
Lifes short.... ENJOY it.
CraigyMc said:
The thing I found scary was that the number reported as being "Nurburgring deaths" were only the people who died at the scene. The various people who were still alive as they drove off in the ambulance would not count as "Nurburgring deaths" even if they died on arrival at the hospital.
I'd be interested to know where the 12 number came from though.
C
Exactly, as per my post.I'd be interested to know where the 12 number came from though.
C
I recall several years ago that the true toll was more like 1 a week, and even then I'm not sure whether that was on-scene deaths only or the real total.
thewheelman said:
Yep.....sounds about normal for a tourist day......sadly 
I think too many people turn up thinking they know the track as they played it on a computer game. I've even heard people say, "oh it's harder in real life".......yeah.....no s
t!
And to top it off, some of the novices actually turn up to race each other.
I agree with the above comments. Firstly, I hope that all involved make a speedy recovery!I think too many people turn up thinking they know the track as they played it on a computer game. I've even heard people say, "oh it's harder in real life".......yeah.....no s
t!And to top it off, some of the novices actually turn up to race each other.
I have been there on cars and bikes, and (imho) too many people go there and make one simple mistake, they get their intentions mixed up with their capabilities. Particularly the 'gamers' who seem to think it gives them a detailed knowledge of the track, as there is so much more to the place than simply knowing which way the next corner is. There are so many variations in gradient, camber, track surface and ultimately grip.
Without wanting to sound cynical, they were probably running the tourist day whilst 'works' were being carried out for the same reason they have always done, because any time the track is closed, they are not making money!!!
Although the 'Ring Taxi driver really should have known better, been fully aware of any and all works going on, and (as has been said before) adjusted his driving accordingly!!
Scott.
Dagnut said:
thewheelman said:
jellison said:
Dagnut said:
I'm a bit confused, they were making repairs to the track/road yet still drivers where allowed unrestricted access?
Exactly - Session running while thisis being done - sound Mad.Just another reason I can see myself doing this sort of thing. The Ring is a race track (end of) in my book, if daft enough to take a car on there with no insurance more fool you.
It is a race track though. When you book on a track day, you accept you're at a race track and these things could happen.. Where as at the 'Ring, anything can go on. I overtook a shed of a Corsa, and a campervan on the same lap. Neither would be found on a track day.
You drive through those barriers onto the track, you've accepted what could happen when you run out of skill/your vehicle isn't suitable for it.
The deaths because of others, oil spill/cutting across bikers are very unfortunate though.
You drive through those barriers onto the track, you've accepted what could happen when you run out of skill/your vehicle isn't suitable for it.
The deaths because of others, oil spill/cutting across bikers are very unfortunate though.
This is a good example in why NOT to go to the Nurburgring.
Though i would VERY much love a ride in the BMW M Ring Taxi.
How on earth do people with such exotica CSLs/Porsche GT3s, Ferraris etc beable to drive around the Nurburgring and not worry about crashing it / someone crashing into them / going too fast into a corner and losing it?
Are they all on 200k a year jobs or something?
PS as for the works BMW Taxi driver - i thought they would leave enough room so they can stop in time given they are a professional?
Though i would VERY much love a ride in the BMW M Ring Taxi.
How on earth do people with such exotica CSLs/Porsche GT3s, Ferraris etc beable to drive around the Nurburgring and not worry about crashing it / someone crashing into them / going too fast into a corner and losing it?
Are they all on 200k a year jobs or something?
PS as for the works BMW Taxi driver - i thought they would leave enough room so they can stop in time given they are a professional?
Edited by thepony on Monday 3rd October 12:49
Edited by thepony on Monday 3rd October 12:52
Tyre Smoke said:
Cover is not a problem, it's covered by law on your existing policy under European cover. It is the difficult problem of ensuring the insurance company doesn't try to reclaim their liabilities from you.
My policy from Admiral specifically mentions the Ring as an exception for where my car is not covered in Europe.It is the same after any big incident at the place, the usual doom and gloom.
The only reason this has had publicity is that there were 8 cars involved.
If there were 2 or 3 it probably wouldn't have had much of a mention.
There have always been incidents, people have always driven beyond their abilities, just take a look on Youtube for crashes in the '70s and '80s
Think about how many people are killed every day on public roads.
There are just as many, if not more, killed or seriously injured on the public roads within 50 miles of the 'ring, if you are driving around the area, there are memorials all over the place.
Have more people been killed this year?
Has the place got busier?
Is it any more dangerous than it has always been?
Or are the larger incidents just getting more publicity?
I personally think no to the first 3, yes to the last one......
The only reason this has had publicity is that there were 8 cars involved.
If there were 2 or 3 it probably wouldn't have had much of a mention.
There have always been incidents, people have always driven beyond their abilities, just take a look on Youtube for crashes in the '70s and '80s
Think about how many people are killed every day on public roads.
There are just as many, if not more, killed or seriously injured on the public roads within 50 miles of the 'ring, if you are driving around the area, there are memorials all over the place.
Have more people been killed this year?
Has the place got busier?
Is it any more dangerous than it has always been?
Or are the larger incidents just getting more publicity?
I personally think no to the first 3, yes to the last one......
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff