Has anyone actually had a cambelt failure?
Discussion
Not had a belt break but got close. This is from an '97 Astra. 8 years old at the time but only 38k miles. Recommended intervals are 4 years / 40000 miles. Why? They wear with age. Pic below is the belt and the cambelt cover was filled with shreds of belt material. I changed it before I dared start the engine again.
Lunablack said:
Had 3 cam belts snap.... All before being due for change
Escort 1.3 CVH
Cavalier 1.8
Astra 1.6 16v
Three for me alsoEscort 1.3 CVH
Cavalier 1.8
Astra 1.6 16v
'89 Astra 1.8 SXi - twice! First one was backing out of my garage so little or no damage. The 'specialist' who repaired it fitted the incorrect cambelt and it broke again a month later on the m'way at speed - destroyed the engine. The 'Specialist' paid for a new engine from Vauxhall (my wife at the time worked for Trading Standards which helped
)And a '97 306 GTi-6, pulling out of a juntion and did a load of damage, changing the car (for another GTi-6) made more sense than repairing.
wst said:
The thing I'm puzzled about is why cam timing isn't done with a shaft driven off of a bevel gear from the crank. It's like that on the RR Merlin engine and having worked on them to set up the timing it is a bloomin' good design with 1/10th of the faffing about that it took for my friend to change the belt on his 3.0 Omega MV6...
Original Touareg 5 pot and VW T5 Transporter 5pot are gear driven, no belts or chains inside or outside the engine.wst said:
The thing I'm puzzled about is why cam timing isn't done with a shaft driven off of a bevel gear from the crank. It's like that on the RR Merlin engine and having worked on them to set up the timing it is a bloomin' good design with 1/10th of the faffing about that it took for my friend to change the belt on his 3.0 Omega MV6...
I imagine it comes down to expense, packaging and accuracy (I guess there will be more tolerance in a gearset than a tensioned belt).Also lifespan- most cars probably only ever get through 2 belts in their life, and the service departments usually make a bit of money out of changing the belt anyway, so there's little point speccing a more expensive system on the basis that it will last longer.
It's a shame really, but I guess you get what you pay for and we all want cheaper cars!
I can understand it, but I guess it comes down to how much that £1k car is really worth to you. If you consider it a cheap runaround, then why spend even £100 to service something which is pretty likely not to fail. After all, you could change the belt and the gearbox or something else could break the next day.
On the other hand, if the £1k car represents a fair investment to you, or is something a bit special or rare, or if a breakdown would be an absolute major pain in the ar5e, then the peace of mind and potential extra reliability is probably worth it. No right or wrong answer.
As long as you are buying something pretty run of the mill, then timing belts are really not difficult to fit* and a timing belt kit will be somewhere between £40 and £100 for the majority of cars (some are a little more expensive). I'd far rather pay such a small sum for complete piece of mind.
On the other hand, if the £1k car represents a fair investment to you, or is something a bit special or rare, or if a breakdown would be an absolute major pain in the ar5e, then the peace of mind and potential extra reliability is probably worth it. No right or wrong answer.
Mr2Mike said:
Nedzilla said:
I wouldn't bother.If the car costs less than a grand i would just run it till it dies.Chances are it will be fine,if it goes,so what.
I really don't understand this. It could snap a week after you buy it, so do you just splash out another grand on a banger and not bother to maintain that either? Are you quite happy to be stranded somewhere for hours whilst a recovery service turns up?As long as you are buying something pretty run of the mill, then timing belts are really not difficult to fit* and a timing belt kit will be somewhere between £40 and £100 for the majority of cars (some are a little more expensive). I'd far rather pay such a small sum for complete piece of mind.
busta said:
I imagine it comes down to expense, packaging and accuracy (I guess there will be more tolerance in a gearset than a tensioned belt).
Also lifespan- most cars probably only ever get through 2 belts in their life, and the service departments usually make a bit of money out of changing the belt anyway, so there's little point speccing a more expensive system on the basis that it will last longer.
It's a shame really, but I guess you get what you pay for and we all want cheaper cars!
Quite a few bikes have gear driven cams. The advantages are said to be very accurate timing and reliability. Cost is the disadvantage. Honda fitted it to quite a few bikes when they had trouble on numerous camchain bikes.Also lifespan- most cars probably only ever get through 2 belts in their life, and the service departments usually make a bit of money out of changing the belt anyway, so there's little point speccing a more expensive system on the basis that it will last longer.
It's a shame really, but I guess you get what you pay for and we all want cheaper cars!
I had a VFR400 with gear driven cams, made a lovely whinning sound which according to Honda was supposed to evoke the sound of a jet fighter.
Edited by supersingle on Monday 9th January 23:50
mike9009 said:
Our old works Laguna had the Cambelt fail at about 115000 miles. I suspect it had never been changed in that mileage! Luckily this scrapped the wretched thing!
I also had the water pump fail on my Eunos at approx 80,000 miles and twenty years old. Again I suspect the belt and pump had never been changed!
This is in 15 years of car ownership and probably in excess of 250,000 miles of driving various vehicles.
Mike
162k on my car...no record of it being done (ive had it since 50k)I also had the water pump fail on my Eunos at approx 80,000 miles and twenty years old. Again I suspect the belt and pump had never been changed!
This is in 15 years of car ownership and probably in excess of 250,000 miles of driving various vehicles.
Mike
I remember reading in a classic car mag some old 80s mazda with 400k still on its first cambelt!
Nick1point9 said:
I've come to the conclusion its better to have a belt that is cheap, quick and easy to replace at regular intervals, instead of a chain which will be massively hit and miss between engines and will cost the earth to change
Tough luck, then - with the advances in chain tech, more and more cars are coming out with chains and belts are falling out of favour. Chains can now be better aligned and make a lot less noise, and obviously do improve service intervals, so are on their way in for good. Least, that's how it looks at the moment!stek said:
Original Touareg 5 pot and VW T5 Transporter 5pot are gear driven, no belts or chains inside or outside the engine.
That's interesting. My family had the belt go on their Audi A6 2.5 tdi 5 pot (not overdue - at least so I was told) which bent valves. I say your post is interesting because I thought these were moreorless the same engine, but apparently not if one had belt and the other gears.I've always feel a sense of, erm, smugism when I consider the likelihood of catastrophic belt failure on my cars:
non-interference engine - Supra mk4
chain-drive - ls2
chain-drive - bmw m54
I was hoping to try to get some kind of cambelt mileage record on my first Supra, but it came to an unnatural end, and got replaced by one that had already had its belt done!
non-interference engine - Supra mk4
chain-drive - ls2
chain-drive - bmw m54
I was hoping to try to get some kind of cambelt mileage record on my first Supra, but it came to an unnatural end, and got replaced by one that had already had its belt done!
This is reminding me to get mine changed actually - 30,000 mile belt intervals, boo. The belt's like a rubber band compared to other cars I've seen 
(Vauxhall Astra 
). Funnily enough when my dad had the car, that's the first encounter we had with the garage we now use. It was making a funny noise, and the tensioner or something had gone kaput, but managed not to actually snap/damage the belt. Bloody lucky.
(Vauxhall Astra ). Funnily enough when my dad had the car, that's the first encounter we had with the garage we now use. It was making a funny noise, and the tensioner or something had gone kaput, but managed not to actually snap/damage the belt. Bloody lucky. Had a few go ove the years, 2ltr Pinto, no problem new one from the car shop 200 metres away and changed at side of road, 1.4 citron deisel, on wifes car, no problem guy next door changed on the drive way. both non interference engines, also slipped a few on my 910 Lotus race engine, mega problem hugly expensive, valves, valve seats, piston any thing can happen.
If you are running a cheap banger with a non interefence engine then you can run it until the belt brakes, no real problem, if it a high compression 16 valve change them reguler and often.
If you are running a cheap banger with a non interefence engine then you can run it until the belt brakes, no real problem, if it a high compression 16 valve change them reguler and often.
You can't inspect the belt at all. I bought my Mk4 at 85k miles with "FSH" from the single previous owner. I mentioned to the dealer I'd probably fit a new timing belt kit and water pump for the peace of mind as I was intending my 100 mile commute in the car. He looked at me like I was mad. Anyway I drove it 100 miles home and left it a few days whilst I gathered the bits. I changed it all, about an hour and £100 in bits and was throwing away the old bits when I had a quick look at the belt. Looked ok, until I saw the massive tear between two teeth on the inside of the belt. I think it was the original as it was very shiny and that 2.0 engine did have 80k intervals when it first came out.
Anyway it's rarely the belt; the water pump or roller or tensioner gets play in it, vibrates etc and wears the belt or shunts it over one side so it wear on a guide. The belt gets hot and is immersed in oil vapour etc - this rots rubber.
I do a bit of work for friends a lot and their friends etc (usually on Vauxhalls) and I'm constantly amazed when I ask if they want a cam belt changing and they have no idea what it is or if the car they've just bought has had one changed ever!
IMO just get it done, with a water pump, and forget it for the next 3 years minimum.
Anyway it's rarely the belt; the water pump or roller or tensioner gets play in it, vibrates etc and wears the belt or shunts it over one side so it wear on a guide. The belt gets hot and is immersed in oil vapour etc - this rots rubber.
I do a bit of work for friends a lot and their friends etc (usually on Vauxhalls) and I'm constantly amazed when I ask if they want a cam belt changing and they have no idea what it is or if the car they've just bought has had one changed ever!
IMO just get it done, with a water pump, and forget it for the next 3 years minimum.
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