RE: Nurburgring under threat - again

[Mattt]

St John Smythe said:

330 million euros? That takes some epic incompetence to blow that kind of money!

That's quite a few visits to the Cherry Bar...

[agtlaw]

a brief history. the nurburgring estate has been state owned since 1927. the state (Rhineland) owns Nurburgring GmbH and other related companies. The state owned companies are partly run by locally elected politicians. Those politicians spent millions (est. €300-€500 million) developing the new facilities after private investors couldn't be found. Massively indebted, it was decided to mitigate future losses by leasing everything to a private company - Nurburgring Automotive GmbH. The newly formed private company didn't take on the debt of course; their obligation was to make annual lease payments. The private company hasn't paid its lease in full and the leaseholder has today terminated the contract.

[buggalugs]

RossP said:

buggalugs said:

Baryonyx said:

St John Smythe said:

330 million euros? That takes some epic incompetence to blow that kind of money!

There must be a British bank involved somewhere!

I believe they spunked it on all the new development at the site, the unfinished roller coaster et. al. in the hope that the extra facilities would earn that back with interest. I guess they'll never get to find out now!

It was obvious from the outset it wouldn't get anywhere near the projected visitor numbers. The 'theme park' is utterly rubbish, apart from the ring-bus ride which is so cheesy it's quite good.

I spent quite a good afternoon in the museum part, thought all the 'rides' were good but the place wasn't exactly heaving. We were the only ones in most of the areas, in fact I think visitors were nearly outnumbered by staff when I think about it.

[braddo]

agtlaw said:

a brief history. the nurburgring estate has been state owned since 1927. the state (Rhineland) owns Nurburgring GmbH and other related companies. The state owned companies are partly run by locally elected politicians. Those politicians spent millions (est. €300-€500 million) developing the new facilities after private investors couldn't be found. Massively indebted, it was decided to mitigate future losses by leasing everything to a private company - Nurburgring Automotive GmbH. The newly formed private company didn't take on the debt of course; their obligation was to make annual lease payments. The private company hasn't paid its lease in full and the leaseholder has today terminated the contract.

Interesting, thanks.

So it appears to me that having given some private operators the chance to see if they could screw some more revenue out of the place (in order to claw back some of the state's frivolous facilities 'investment'), which has failed, the state is taking control back again.

[j_s14a]

With any luck, they'll turn the new buildings into offices to bring more people to the area.

If they had only asked the locals what they had wanted in the first place...

[PascalBuyens]

GC8 said:

DM12 I believe, when I first went - it was virtually deserted too, apart from locals in tricked-up Mk1 Golfs.

9 Mark when I first went...

€89 for 4 laps in December 2011, valid until end of December.

When I wanted to enter, I couldn't because the car (Camaro) was on German transit plates.

2 weeks later I went back in the RRS, and had the Ring to myself... in snowy weather, and with road works going on again...

Hope the track will get back in the state's hands. They should have never put the rollercoaster and things, it's a track, not a park.

[williamp]

Is it possible/do you think one of the manufacturers will buy it? Someone like VW have the cash easily, and the kudos (and not letting any other manufacturer test there) would be worth huge amounts

[agtlaw]

it's been state owned since 1927 and I can't see that changing. the most likely outcome, in my opinion, is that another private operator will run it.

[2woody]

what a farce - was Gordon Brown running this ?

[TTMBTT]

Recind the term's in line with the breach of contract, Let "NAG" go to the wall.

As said in previous post if after recieving all that government money they still
cannot run the track in it's present form how on earth can they be trusted going
forward!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jasper Gilder]

Well NAG were always adventurers and their approach to other businesses which relied on the 'Ring frankly stank

Needs a management expert who can reorganise things together with an operations manager with a passion for the place first - sort out Neuro Disney later. ( Oh and a bag of cash)

so that'll be me and Sabine Schmidt - who's putting the greenies up?

[Dale Lomas]

What nobody's mentioning is the architect of the new 'concept' was Kafitz who already had his investor and first tenant stood in line (Richter). So Kafitz got the blame for talking the state out of the 300 million (that's a whole sorry tale with some big question marks) and luckily Richter was there to 'inherit' the new operation from his buddy and in fact got the lease to operate it in a closed-door session with no public consultation. We just woke up to the news and all said WTF?!

The writing was on the wall, the NAG (Richter's company) were ramping up prices, stifling competitio and generally going short-term high-profit. That's why STR started. Then they turn around and have the cheek to say 'oooh the place is really big and empty and we cant make money. if you don't let us off the lease payments we will have to sack your previously government-employed workforce'

NEW govt (previously the opposition while this whole mess was built against their wishes) are now in power and say 'right, ttbags, sling your hook elsewhere' and call the NAG on breach of contract. Remember NAG have not even PAID the lease as they're bhing the nurodisney is a broken concept and cant make money!!!

AND NOW?

Richter has said they will not go quietly into the night, they will set a legal team on to the government and drag out the 'eviction' as long as possible.

This is now a game of Poker and Richter will leave the table with a lot of chips. The Govt can't call Richter/NAG's bluff, can they? An 18-month legal battle while the place goes to pot? OR is even closed completely?

Nope, the Govt will have got a budget for compensation for these privateers who got their fingers burnt*. A package paid with more state money.

AND THE FINAL indignity? After all this the state still want to find a new private operator....

• if you believe that Richter et al lost any money while signing off state-paid contracts to their myriad other private companies I have a fantastic bag of jelly beans you might want to buy

Edited by Dale Lomas on Tuesday 7th February 22:21

[anonymous-user]

TTMBTT said:

going forward!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, don't make me hurt you. You mean "in future", or "from now on". "Going forward" is a phrase which exists only in godforsaken hellholes such as those inhabited by the management team at NAG.

[Andiroo]

Dale Lomas said:

What nobody's mentioning is the architect of the new 'concept' was Kafitz who already had his investor and first tenant stood in line (Richter). So Kafitz got the blame for talking the state out of the 300 million (that's a whole sorry tale with some big question marks) and luckily Richter was there to 'inherit' the new operation from his buddy and in fact got the lease to operate it in a closed-door session with no public consultation. We just woke up to the news and all said WTF?!

The writing was on the wall, the NAG (Richter's company) were ramping up prices, stifling competitio and generally going short-term high-profit. That's why STR started. Then they turn around and have the cheek to say 'oooh the place is really big and empty and we cant make money. if you don't let us off the lease payments we will have to sack your previously government-employed workforce'

NEW govt (previously the opposition while this whole mess was built against their wishes) are now in power and say 'right, ttbags, sling your hook elsewhere' and call the NAG on breach of contract. Remember NAG have not even PAID the lease as they're bhing the nurodisney is a broken concept and cant make money!!!

AND NOW?

Richter has said they will not go quietly into the night, they will set a legal team on to the government and drag out the 'eviction' as long as possible.

This is now a game of Poker and Richter will leave the table with a lot of chips. The Govt can't call Richter/NAG's bluff, can they? An 18-month legal battle while the place goes to pot? OR is even closed completely?

Nope, the Govt will have got a budget for compensation for these privateers who got their fingers burnt*. A package paid with more state money.

AND THE FINAL indignity? After all this the state still want to find a new private operator....

• if you believe that Richter et al lost any money while signing off state-paid contracts to their myriad other private companies I have a fantastic bag of jelly beans you might want to buy

Edited by Dale Lomas on Tuesday 7th February 22:21

This ^^^

.....is the reality, thanks Dale

[Hangus]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but I just noticed my insurance cert specifically excludes the Nurburgring in the disclaimer under the schedule bit! Never noticed that before on other certs.
One day I will get there, hopefully! But I fear the nearest I might get is Gran Turismo!

[Emeye]

My mind pops a fuse every time this sort of thing happens!

Someone buys or runs something huge even a pigeon could see was a crazy idea, with someone else's money and inevitably it goes tits up yet they walk away with the huge salary they paid themselves along with some compensation or a golden handshake, leaving the tax payer to pick up the bill!. And then they do it again.

How can this happen? Are so many people eating from the trough that they choose not to acknowledge reality?

WisH I had the lack of morals to do it!

[matthias73]

AndyCzech said:

St John Smythe said:

330 million euros? That takes some epic incompetence to blow that kind of money!

Ja gut!

Nicht gut.

[Gary C]

williamp said:

Is it possible/do you think one of the manufacturers will buy it? Someone like VW have the cash easily, and the kudos (and not letting any other manufacturer test there) would be worth huge amounts

VW are readying themselves to buy the 51% of porsche they don't own, so may need the cash for that (while they wait for the US hedge fund case to go to court before completing the agreed deal).

[951TSE]

Pistonheads GmbH - The Ring Matters.

Go on, you know you want to. £100 a share, dividend paid in laps.

Back to the old school way of running it. With manufacturers testing, racing on the F1 circuit, ring taxi and the tourist laps how can it fail to make a profit.

[BSC]

Dale Lomas said:

NEW govt (previously the opposition while this whole mess was built against their wishes) are now in power and say 'right, ttbags, sling your hook elsewhere' and call the NAG on breach of contract. Remember NAG have not even PAID the lease as they're bhing the nurodisney is a broken concept and cant make money!!!

Edited by Dale Lomas on Tuesday 7th February 22:21

AFAIK the old government of Rhineland Pfalz under Prime Minister Beck is still reigning the state. It was a project patronised by Mr Beck but the population of the state didn't punish him in the elections after the decision to spend hundreds of millions in neurodisney. On top of that the state of Rhineland Pfalz is subsidised by the 'Finanzausgleich', paid by Bavaria, Baden-Wuerttemberg, Hesse and Hamburg as Beck's state has less revenue from taxes. So at the end of the day the people of other states pay the nuerodreams of Mr Beck. He should see a sentence to work in Siberia for the rest of his life.