Real world driving - LSD vs no LSD
Discussion
nottyash said:
Your confusing Stability control (ESP) with traction control (TCS) all have different abbrieveations. You will find cars like the M3 have both a LSD and DSC which is dynamic stability control. Its not the same thing.
I'm fully aware that it's not the same thing but increasingly, high performance cars aren't bothering with a mechanical LSD but are using the brakes instead. "Traction control" just means something which stops the driven wheels from spinning. Even a mechanical LSD is a form of "traction control" in the literal sense of the term.
I think mechanical LSDs will probably vanish from production road cars in the next ten years.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 16th February 14:43
kambites said:
I think mechanical LSDs will probably vanish from production road cars in the next ten years.
Interestingly though, Toyota/Subaru have specced a Torsen diff for the roadgoing version of the GT86 instead of going for some type of 'E-diff'Edited by kambites on Thursday 16th February 14:43
kambites said:
s m said:
Interestingly though, Toyota/Subaru have specced a Torsen diff for the roadgoing version of the GT86 instead of going for some type of 'E-diff'
Yes, but lets be honest that car is hardly in line with the current trend for performance cars. 
s m said:
thinfourth2 said:
This far and no one has mentioned an LSD makes i far far easier to do donuts
Very very disapointing
Must try harder
I guess the people behind the GT86 must equate some measure of fun/tactility to having a 'proper' diff so all is not lostVery very disapointing
Must try harder
It is like everything in life, you move onwards and upwards, in this case, the hallowed and revered PH Nirvana that is RWD with no electronics and then someone tells you that its no good without an LSD, get an LSD and someone will say you need a stronger one as yours is standard and not aggressive enough, and being older its probably not working any more. There are probably more levels to go through after this as well, like the LSD that is so hardcore and tough that it clenches when it sees a nice cleavage, so utterly nails that it scares the fronts into joining in despite only being 2wd, so monumentally effective it will lock the diff of adjacent cars in traffic.
GC8 said:
Theres a quid pro quo as with everything: the downside of an LSD is the increased tendancy to push going into a corner. A car without an LSD will be nicer to drive and you trade that off against the increase in grip/traction (and through that consistency).
I have never found that in std OEM LSDs.I have been spat off a track by a full race 2 way LSD (that I wasn't told was fitted) when I changed down before a corner.
redgriff500 said:
GC8 said:
Theres a quid pro quo as with everything: the downside of an LSD is the increased tendancy to push going into a corner. A car without an LSD will be nicer to drive and you trade that off against the increase in grip/traction (and through that consistency).
I have never found that in std OEM LSDs.I have been spat off a track by a full race 2 way LSD (that I wasn't told was fitted) when I changed down before a corner.
redgriff500 said:
GC8 said:
Theres a quid pro quo as with everything: the downside of an LSD is the increased tendancy to push going into a corner. A car without an LSD will be nicer to drive and you trade that off against the increase in grip/traction (and through that consistency).
I have never found that in std OEM LSDs.I have been spat off a track by a full race 2 way LSD (that I wasn't told was fitted) when I changed down before a corner.
With the diff that youve mentioned I will guess that it was a two way, which locked up fiercely on deceleration? What Kaaz call a 1.5 way would have been an easier drive as decel lockup is only 50% of acel lock. Id imagine that thatd come as a bit of a surprise if no one told you what to expect.
J4CKO said:
It is like everything in life, you move onwards and upwards, in this case, the hallowed and revered PH Nirvana that is RWD with no electronics and then someone tells you that its no good without an LSD, get an LSD and someone will say you need a stronger one as yours is standard and not aggressive enough, and being older its probably not working any more. There are probably more levels to go through after this as well, like the LSD that is so hardcore and tough that it clenches when it sees a nice cleavage, so utterly nails that it scares the fronts into joining in despite only being 2wd, so monumentally effective it will lock the diff of adjacent cars in traffic.
Well that would be the next best thing if you can't handle a welded diff, I guess. 
deeen said:
J4CKO said:
It is like everything in life, you move onwards and upwards, in this case, the hallowed and revered PH Nirvana that is RWD with no electronics and then someone tells you that its no good without an LSD, get an LSD and someone will say you need a stronger one as yours is standard and not aggressive enough, and being older its probably not working any more. There are probably more levels to go through after this as well, like the LSD that is so hardcore and tough that it clenches when it sees a nice cleavage, so utterly nails that it scares the fronts into joining in despite only being 2wd, so monumentally effective it will lock the diff of adjacent cars in traffic.
Well that would be the next best thing if you can't handle a welded diff, I guess. I've had RWD cars for the past 8 or so years, from Manta's to E30 BMW's from 320 to 325.
Having driven in a lot of weather, before having an LSD installed in the 320, the car didn't feel 'planted' and had a habit of breaking traction on one side, then the other especially in icey / wet / greasy conditions, even when driving normally.
After installation of a LSD, generally the car felt more planted in all conditions, easier to catch if the back end stepped out in adverse conditions, and in snow / ice, made it easier for getting around since both wheels would get some traction, instead of having one wheel spinning aimlessly on ice.
So on RWD cars, yes an LSD I would say makes them easier to drive, both normally and enthusiastically.
Having driven in a lot of weather, before having an LSD installed in the 320, the car didn't feel 'planted' and had a habit of breaking traction on one side, then the other especially in icey / wet / greasy conditions, even when driving normally.
After installation of a LSD, generally the car felt more planted in all conditions, easier to catch if the back end stepped out in adverse conditions, and in snow / ice, made it easier for getting around since both wheels would get some traction, instead of having one wheel spinning aimlessly on ice.
So on RWD cars, yes an LSD I would say makes them easier to drive, both normally and enthusiastically.
What I said in that thread above :
My c63 has an LSD and I am in Palmball's court. I want the physics to work and not the ESP.
Pulling out of junctions and general driving does benefit from having an LSD - contrary to the nonsense spouted by some posters, even the C63 drivers! I must have a special C63 that try's to break traction is anything other than the dry!
You may not have noticed the car breaking traction due to the ESP, but in the wet and pulling away from standstill, the C63 can tailslide if slightly provoked.
So either you don't really have a C63 or you don't feel for the grip like we do!
I suggest you get on the Don Palmer course - I went on there to perfect my powersliding technique but actually came away being able to feel the car at the different levels of traction which has helped me understand road conditions and feel through the steering like you would never believe. The benefit of the C63 is that you can really feel where you are on the road and when it might break traction. I am not saying that you need to be powersliding everwhere however if you do need to correct any oversteer then an LSD will benefit you. But perhaps you may not be thinking about this kind of thing.
In summary, a C63 will hugely benefit from an LSD but maybe we are all being lulled into a false sense of security by driver aids.
My c63 has an LSD and I am in Palmball's court. I want the physics to work and not the ESP.
Pulling out of junctions and general driving does benefit from having an LSD - contrary to the nonsense spouted by some posters, even the C63 drivers! I must have a special C63 that try's to break traction is anything other than the dry!
You may not have noticed the car breaking traction due to the ESP, but in the wet and pulling away from standstill, the C63 can tailslide if slightly provoked.
So either you don't really have a C63 or you don't feel for the grip like we do!
I suggest you get on the Don Palmer course - I went on there to perfect my powersliding technique but actually came away being able to feel the car at the different levels of traction which has helped me understand road conditions and feel through the steering like you would never believe. The benefit of the C63 is that you can really feel where you are on the road and when it might break traction. I am not saying that you need to be powersliding everwhere however if you do need to correct any oversteer then an LSD will benefit you. But perhaps you may not be thinking about this kind of thing.
In summary, a C63 will hugely benefit from an LSD but maybe we are all being lulled into a false sense of security by driver aids.
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