RE: The PH guide to the EU's new tyre labels

[Fox-]

Surely all this is going to mean that pretty much every premium tyre gets the same score so everyone will assume a Pilot Super Sport and an EcoContact are the same thing?

[jon-]

Actually in that example the label might actually work. From my BASIC understanding, something like the Pilot Sport 3 might get an A/C for wet braking / RR, where as the ECO contact might be a C / A.

Will be an interesting few months...

[SimbaWC]

Bacon Is Proof said:

SimbaWC said:

Bacon Is Proof said:

SimbaWC said:

This is a great idea. What could possibly be wrong with knowing more about what you buy when you buy it? We all know that a Continental/Dunlop/Bridgestone is better than a Kasakana but isn't it good to be able to say why that is with empirical/objective/scientific evidence to back it up?

So you go out and buy some new tyres that are top rated for wet braking (that's the only grip bit of information you have) and find they are completely toilet in the dry compared to your old rubber round the twisties.

See why it doesn't work?
You can't measure everything, it is impractical and in some circumstances impossible.
Look at performance/target orientated policing. It does not work.

I'm not suggesting it's a perfect system but it's better to have some information than none at all. What you're suggesting there is an improvement to the system i.e. quote dry grip as well as wet grip. And I don't know why they chose to omit it but maybe the differences in dry grip just aren't as dramatic as differences in wet grip. Wet grip is also an important safety feature and that's why all road tyres have tread which is useful when it's wet but is actually a bit of a hindrance to grip in the dry see slicks versus wet tyres in F1.

If you are only going to monitor a limited number of attributes, then unmonitored attributes will suffer.
Take the gear ratios of some cars for example: they make the car worse to drive because they are designed against one monitored stat (0-60).
I'm not interested in knowing that the police have caught twice as many criminals if those caught have been speeding and no burglars have been nicked.

The independent press are still there to do their own tyre tests and tell us when manufacturers have sacrificed other facets of performance in pursuit of good label ratings. Just like road testers always tell you how the car they tested's MPG compares to EUDC test figures. As a punter in a shop, it's better to have these labels there as a benchmark than the way it is now where we are at the mercy of what tyre sellers tell us.

[jbi]

So fuel economy is the most important thing when choosing a tyre... not grip or durability

F*ck you EU

[Fox-]

jbi said:

So fuel economy is the most important thing when choosing a tyre... not grip or durability

F*ck you EU

And drive by noise..

[GC8]

MX7 said:

GC8 said:

Two out of three indicators being noise and economy - both important to the EU but very much of secondary importance to us.

No mention of dry grip of course, because that suggests a politically unacceptable type of driving behaviour...

I've seen people on here asking for the quietest tyres, and there are almost daily threads about frugal daily drivers.


http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=861...

Oh come on! Id like quiet tryres and Id certainly like tyres which eek out a few more miles per gallon, but that wasnt the point of my post.

[GC8]

Id be happy with it if they added durability and dry lateral grip. Unlikely though, as their agenda is very different from mine.

[MSPV12]

I can guarantee you all, that my Mom will not pay the blindest bit of notice to this and just buy the cheapest she can find. I think my Mom is like 90% of motorists.

[arkenphel]

This isn't the end of track day tires, as someone alluded to earlier. We will undoubtedly still have them, but with extra wet grip usability. That can only be a good thing. My M3's Michelin pilot cups used to scare me in the wet, even when virtually new.

It won't really change the way I drive. I'm still buying the good shizzle from reputable brands. Information leaflet be damned.

[Tomatogti]

Good in theory (more info for average joe no bad thing) but am worried about where it is potentially heading (in the ever more nanny state we live in) and whether it's value for money.

I think those 3 metrics (together with wear rate) are probably most important for average joe (pistonheads are still likely to use additional tyre reviews to understand the more "enthusiastic" performance ratings anyway - 99% of people don't care how good their tyres are "in the twisties" so why waste money on it).

[Ozzie Osmond]

IMO in the UK there is only one really important factor .... wet grip.

[205007]

Don't know if anyones mentioned this but realistically its just one step away from us all being told you MUST by LAW have a certain level of tyre on your car

I can just see it now - any car manufactured before 2001 must have tyres which have xxxx level of grip in the wet
- any car with low fuel economy must have tyres which have xxxx efficiency rating

etc etc etc

$$$$$$

[scholesy]

pSyCoSiS said:

What a waste.

Why do they keep making things more and more complicated?

What issue is there with going to a local tyre dealer, and just buying the tyre that suits you best?

I bet the retailers are p1ssed off with this, as well as the manufacturers (especially, alot of the budget brands like Wanli / Linglong), which people would probably refrain from buying due to poor rating scores!

Because no doubt a friend of a politician has been selected to run the body that tests and governs these new labels and gets a good wage for doing so

[jon-]

205007 said:

Don't know if anyones mentioned this but realistically its just one step away from us all being told you MUST by LAW have a certain level of tyre on your car

I can just see it now - any car manufactured before 2001 must have tyres which have xxxx level of grip in the wet
- any car with low fuel economy must have tyres which have xxxx efficiency rating

etc etc etc

$$$$$$

Sort - I believe tyres which can't meet at least an F/G will be eventually banned from sale.

[tommy vercetti]

All bullst imo. Just trying to make things complicated and create something out of nothing. I wish somebody would get rid of these greenies and tossers at the EU.

[dvs_dave]

Given how important tyres are to a vehicles performance and safety its about time a scientific baseline was established for a tyres performance. As until now there simply isn't an agreed format on how to compare tyres across the board.

Not sure why there's all this hate against it though? Will it make any difference to your tyre buying habits? Though it will certainly make people think twice when going for the cheapest option as it will clearly state that they're crap tyres on the label. I suspect most of the "haters" fall into this category.

[jbi]

dvs_dave said:

Not sure why there's all this hate against it though? Will it make any difference to your tyre buying habits? Though it will certainly make people think twice when going for the cheapest option as it will clearly state that they're crap tyres on the label. I suspect most of the "haters" fall into this category.

Because they prioritise a green agenda... instead of the most important things like grip.

If they had done it correctly than maybe... but low rolling resistance tyres are not brilliant yet will no doubt be given A+ ratings

[Cunning Punt]

More information is good.

Being denied insurance cover, because you didn't adhere (hah) to some arbitrary minimum tyre standard that your insurer will pull out of its ass following a claim, will be bad.


Anyway. This, like everything else, is mostly about trade war.

'punt

[Motorrad]

dvs_dave said:

Not sure why there's all this hate against it though?

On my part because as the end user and taxpayer I'll end up paying for this lowest common denominator test crap that I do not require.

[anonymous-user]

CTE said:

If you decide at a later point ot fit different specification tyres (not size) to the OEM fitment, will it be used as an excuse by insurance companies to not pay out?
Definately agree that most will always by the cheapest tyre no matter what.

Have to say that my first thought was with regards to insurance.
How long before an insurance company refuses to pay out because your car was supplied with AB blah blah rated tyres, but at the time of an incident it was only fitted with BB rated tyres, and as such was a death trap.