RE: Chris Harris video: BAC Mono

[otolith]

thewheelman said:

What would you say the main differences would be (other than lack of passenger seat)?

(genuine question)

Depends which you are comparing it to - I would say that the Caterham and Atom are as difficult to interchange with each other as they are to this. Neither of them attempt to be a road usable single seater (by which I mean more than just "lacks a passenger seat" - I can remove the passenger seat from my Elise, it isn't the same thing). So the driving position and the view out of the thing for a start.



Who wouldn't want that?

To my eyes, it looks absolutely fantastic - and nobody is going to tell you that his dad built one of those on his driveway with Ford crossflow in it.

If you want something like this, enclosed carbon fibre bodywork, very highly tuned naturally aspirated engine, modern, properly road usable - it's going to cost you. A KTM X-Bow is fifty-odd k and 300kg heavier.

I'm not saying it's better than the Caterham or the Atom - just that it's different.

[kambites]

Is English not your first language?

No-where did I claim that you'd said they were better, and no-where did I claim that the MONO was objectively better.


I'll restate my question. How do you know whether they 'do the same as this for less money' if you haven't driven this?

I said that I think this will offer more thrills and unless you're capable of reading minds across the internet, you have absolutely no way to call that false.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 2nd August 11:49

[otolith]

thewheelman said:

Not yet, but I'm not the one claiming this is better to drive than its rivals. As you are......

I didn't say that. I said it wasn't the same experience.

[911p]

Considering the absolute top of the line Caterham is less than £45k, and the Atom is priced at less than $53k, I don't think they're rivals at all. This thing is double the price.

[Rawwr]

thewheelman said:

No more & no less than anyone else on here. Is it the lottery comment that's bothering you?

It's more the stance of absolutism you seem to portray in pretty much everything you post that bothers me. Maybe worth considering knocking it back a notch as it's a posting style which traditionally grates.

[Toffer]

This introductory video to the BAC Mono is interesting too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trkuL0jHEPA&fea...
Enjoy!

[thewheelman]

otolith said:

thewheelman said:

What would you say the main differences would be (other than lack of passenger seat)?

(genuine question)

Depends which you are comparing it to - I would say that the Caterham and Atom are as difficult to interchange with each other as they are to this. Neither of them attempt to be a road usable single seater (by which I mean more than just "lacks a passenger seat" - I can remove the passenger seat from my Elise, it isn't the same thing). So the driving position and the view out of the thing for a start.



Who wouldn't want that?

To my eyes, it looks absolutely fantastic - and nobody is going to tell you that his dad built one of those on his driveway with Ford crossflow in it.

If you want something like this, enclosed carbon fibre bodywork, very highly tuned naturally aspirated engine, modern, properly road usable - it's going to cost you. A KTM X-Bow is fifty-odd k and 300kg heavier.

I'm not saying it's better than the Caterham or the Atom - just that it's different.

I used to co-own a KTM X-Bow, which this does remind me of greatly. That said, I didn't get to drive a Caterham until after the X, I couldn't believe how much more fun the Caterham was over the X when you take into account how basic it is (in technology terms) to the X.

[kambites]

I haven't driven an X-Bow but I'm not particularly surprised. Caterhams are really quite remarkable cars, in all their forms (not so keen on the Atom).

[thewheelman]

Rawwr said:

thewheelman said:

No more & no less than anyone else on here. Is it the lottery comment that's bothering you?

It's more the stance of absolutism you seem to portray in pretty much everything you post that bothers me. Maybe worth considering knocking it back a notch as it's a posting style which traditionally grates.

I think you're reading far too much into things. This is now the 3rd or 4th time you've addressed me in a thread about something unrelated to the topic. Maybe worth considering knocking it back a notch as it's a posting style which traditionally grates.

[Rawwr]

It's the 2nd time.

[thewheelman]

kambites said:

I haven't driven an X-Bow but I'm not particularly surprised. Caterhams are really quite remarkable cars, in all their forms (not so keen on the Atom).

Oh he'll yeah, the Caterham blew me away. Shame finances aren't what they once were, I'd love one to own. Also, Im pretty sure It was a lower power model I got to drive, so I can just imagine what the real powerful Caterhams are like

[kambites]

thewheelman said:

Oh he'll yeah, the Caterham blew me away. Shame finances aren't what they once were, I'd love one to own. Also, Im pretty sure It was a lower power model I got to drive, so I can just imagine what the real powerful Caterhams are like

I found the R500 to be a bit over the top for the road. For me, the pick of the range for road use is either the R300 or the top of the Roadsport range. I haven't driven a CSR.

[356Speedster]

kambites said:

I'm not convinced that you can get another car that does the same as this for any money?

Everyone has different opinions on what a car's worth, but I think if I could have any one modern car in my garage for the weekends, irrespective of price, it would be this. Nothing else even seems to come close.

Could you elaborate a little pls? (And I'd like to keep this civil unlike what's gone on this morning, if that's OK!)

When you say "does the same as this", how do you mean? I get the central driving position, but if you want a sequential 'box.... Caterham & Radial, adj push-rod suspension... Atom, mad looks... all of those, plus X-bow, carbon everywhere... X-bow, fantastic performance... all of these.

Each of these cars are offering a slightly different take on the road-legal track day weapon, but I genuinely can't see how any one of them isn't going to deliver a very similar experience, that utlimately differs in the exceution only in the smaller details. None of these cars is substantially different from another (that I can see), but the Mono is new and therefore, where we're all familiar to the existing rivals, this does have additional "wow" appeal.

You can defiantely see where inspiration came from with this car and I salute the Briggs' for distilling the best bits of exsiting cars (road and track) into one package, we need more chaps / companies like this

With the exception of price, I do think it's fair to judge the Mono against the other cars mentioned on this thread (plus a few other cars of course) and ultimately, it's going to come down to the smaller details as to which car folks prefer amongst these great car (and cash of course, LOL!!).

Just trying to keep the discussion civil & get under the skin of headline comments

[Hatchoo]

This is why forums are such a st way of discussing anything. As soon as you're examining each others posts for semantic inconsistancies the time has come to go for a pint. If you were face to face in a pub you'd probably agree that the Mono looked very good but was quite expensive.

[Greg_D]

Hatchoo said:

This is why forums are such a st way of discussing anything. As soon as you're examining each others posts for semantic inconsistancies the time has come to go for a pint. If you were face to face in a pub you'd probably agree that the Mono looked very good but was quite expensive.

Agreed, everyone needs to have a man hug and agree to disagree

[RX7]

I have to say, i think its a stunning looking creation and the engineering is very impressive.

But i agree with a few on here, regardless of looks and engineering, would this be any quicker on a track than an Atom, or should i say, significantly quicker to justify the extra £? All said and done if your looking at buying something of this ilk, the Atom must be in the same vein, i.e a toy thats very competent on track, so apart from looks and the single seat (which some dont like), the extra £ has to relate to performance.

I have never built a car, as i am sure 99% of people on here havent, but i just flat out dont get how a tubular chassis and Ford engine and some carbon can equate to £80k, yes i know there is suspension and brakes, gearbox etc but Atom seem to manage it.

I guess my question is, how many more would/could they sell if the price was lower and the "tech" not quite so cutting edge.

[KB_S1]

RX7 said:

I have to say, i think its a stunning looking creation and the engineering is very impressive.

But i agree with a few on here, regardless of looks and engineering, would this be any quicker on a track than an Atom, or should i say, significantly quicker to justify the extra £?

Why need to be be quicker? A used single seater would be much quicker than both. I see this as handling and fun.

[otolith]

RX7 said:

I guess my question is, how many more would/could they sell if the price was lower and the "tech" not quite so cutting edge.

Questions from me would be;

Is there a larger (untapped) market for this sort of toy at 50k than there is at 80k? Would a cheaper but not as good version be competitive at a lower price point? Would a cheaper version have cost any less to develop, and would it be able to carry as much margin?

I like the fact that this appears to me to be a singular vision which has been built and then put on sale, rather than a marketing driven exercise. They say they have orders, so perhaps sometimes if you build it they will come.

In terms of performance, I think that if what you really want to do is to "win" at track days and drive home afterwards, a 70k Radical SR3 SL is what you want - or if you aren't bothered about driving home afterwards, an 80k Caterham SP/300.R. Simply because they have meaningful aero. The specification of the BAC is fairly close to those two, apart from the aero - I would imagine that not trying to compete in that high downforce market is really to do with road usability and ground clearance.

Steve Sutcliffe's video review:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/bac-mono-video-...

[Lightningman]

I'm sure the car is a cracker but what really made an impression was how monotone Chris Harris's voice was in the introduction. I started to get sleepy as soon as he began talking; cheer up Chris, you're becoming an insomniacs dream date!

[Sicob]

I love this car. It's quite unique. An everyday track car proposition, unlike a full on ex racer. I've also not heard a bad word about it in any of the reviews, which unlike other vaguely similar cars, i think is pretty good going. I'd love to hear a long term user / owner report though?