RE: Evoque introduces first nine-speed 'box

[dc2rr07]

stuart-b said:

Anyone considered that more gears actually puts LESS strain on the gearbox, drive shaft, flywheel, and clutches?

If you change from 3000 to 2000 and accelerate hard, there is a lot of engine motion to manage, if you change from 3000 to 2700, the amount of energy to dissipated through the clutches and flywheel will be less.

Definitely beneficial on up shifts.

Just a thought - could be nonsense.

Why would you change up i.e '3000 to 2000' and accelerate hard, or am I not reading it correct !

[Scrof]

benzpassion said:

Are you/JLR's press people really claiming that the Evoque will be the first vehicle worldwide to use ZF's new 9-speed gearbox?

Have you/they not heard of the 2014MY Jeep Cherokee?

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/22/2014-jeep-chero...

Do you not know that Chrysler/Jeep/Fiat Group have been working with ZF too, on the first usage of ZF's new 9-speed for FWD/All-wheel drive installation?

Did you know that as well as the 2014MY Jeep Cherokee the 2013 Dodge Dart is slated to get the new ZF 9-speeder later this year too?

If you do know that, and know that the new Jeep Cherokee is expected to hit US showrooms in the Fall of this year, and that Land Rover will not get the 9-speed-fitted Evoque into showrooms until early to mid 2014 at the earliest, and that their claim to be the 'First' rests solely only on them showing a supposed 9-speed Evoque prototype at Geneva next week, why are you even deigning to run this ridiculous story?

To put it clearly, Jeep are/will be the 'First'.

Land Rover are doing their usual spoiler operation schtick, deceiving the gullible, abetted by compliant hacks.

Edited by benzpassion on Wednesday 27th February 11:57

Actually, there's been no official confirmation yet on when or whether the Cherokee will get the nine-speed. Not saying it won't, but it hasn't been announced (see within the article to which you link, "No word yet on powertrain or pricing"). As I'm sure you're aware, ZF produces these gearboxes and sells them to countless manufacturers across the world. Whether Land Rover or Jeep chooses to announce that they'll be fitting that gearbox first is entirely up to them. The only car that has been confirmed (officially) as having the 9HP is the Evoque; I would consider that to make it the car in which the gearbox is making its public debut - which is what the article actually states, contrary to your assertion that it claims the Evoque will be the first vehicle to use the gearbox, a subtly different thing.

[MikeyBoy2000]

E38Ross said:

MikeyBoy2000 said:

9 Gears........? Purely marketing - no technical advantage here at all.

erm, you think you know better?

ok then.

Errrr probably - I did work in F1 and vehicle development for 12 years before moving to the alternative fuels industry. Outside fudging an emissions cycle a bit more, I can't see any advantage here at all, unless they want the Evoque to do 300mph on a salt flat somewhere...?

[longblackcoat]

nickfrog said:

longblackcoat said:

I run 32:16 singlespeed (with a steel frame for maximum olde-worlde effect) , so I'm not sure the cars are competing with me............

Big thighs.

Yup.

Gets you fit though, it really does. And it adds a massive level of smugness once you've got to the top of the hill........

[howertings]

longblackcoat said:

I run 32:16 singlespeed (with a steel frame for maximum olde-worlde effect) , so I'm not sure the cars are competing with me............

How about a Tesla?

[Gizmoish]

longblackcoat said:

nickfrog said:

longblackcoat said:

I run 32:16 singlespeed (with a steel frame for maximum olde-worlde effect) , so I'm not sure the cars are competing with me............

Big thighs.

Yup.

Gets you fit though, it really does. And it adds a massive level of smugness once you've got to the top of the hill........

And no acceleration.

[Mr.Jimbo]

benzpassion said:

Are you/JLR's press people really claiming that the Evoque will be the first vehicle worldwide to use ZF's new 9-speed gearbox?

Have you/they not heard of the 2014MY Jeep Cherokee?

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/22/2014-jeep-chero...

Do you not know that Chrysler/Jeep/Fiat Group have been working with ZF too, on the first usage of ZF's new 9-speed for FWD/All-wheel drive installation?

Did you know that as well as the 2014MY Jeep Cherokee the 2013 Dodge Dart is slated to get the new ZF 9-speeder later this year too?

If you do know that, and know that the new Jeep Cherokee is expected to hit US showrooms in the Fall of this year, and that Land Rover will not get the 9-speed-fitted Evoque into showrooms until early to mid 2014 at the earliest, and that their claim to be the 'First' rests solely only on them showing a supposed 9-speed Evoque prototype at Geneva next week, why are you even deigning to run this ridiculous story?

To put it clearly, Jeep are/will be the 'First'.

Land Rover are doing their usual spoiler operation schtick, deceiving the gullible, abetted by compliant hacks.

Edited by benzpassion on Wednesday 27th February 11:57

I doubt they will be, as the Evoque will be released September this year, not mid-2014 as you say.

[deadtom]

longblackcoat said:

I run 32:16 singlespeed (with a steel frame for maximum olde-worlde effect)

Out of interest, what frame is it?

also, how long is your beard and what's your favourite ale?

[RizzoTheRat]

Meh, I did my first driving test with 32 forward and 32 reverse gears, though I don't think I got above 30th on the test.

[Bladedancer]

Why bother with all those gears? Why not use CVT or any other continuous transmission system instead?

[Evo]

Because any CVT I've ever been in was a nasty unpleasant experience, horrid gearboxes

[RizzoTheRat]

How good are modern CVT's? The only two I've driven are Hydrostatic (engine drives and oil pump and oil driven motors drive the wheels) which is only really efficient over a fairly low speed range, and belt drive with variable width pulleys, which needed regular servicing and wasn't fantastically reliable. These were a few years back though, and were in combines where you want to keep constant RPM to drive the internal mechanics while varying your forward speed.

[The Wookie]

Mr2Mike said:

cookie1600 said:

Surely now this is getting daft? Aren't you better off with a well designed, robust CVT type arrangement for this kind of vehicle?

You'd always be better off with a well designed, robust CVT, but sadly they don't appear to exist just yet. All practical CVT's have problems that limit their use e.g. low torque limits, poor efficiency, reliability, vibration etc.

Worth pointing out that the CVT on an RX hybrid is technically an IVT and is based on electric motors and epicyclic gears to create the blend of power and the ratio. It is a good piece of technology if you can get used to it.

The most common form of CVT is a belt sliding across two conical pulleys to vary the ratio which is indeed utterly pony. Certainly in every application I've tried anyway.

[CraigyMc]

The Wookie said:

The most common form of CVT is a belt sliding across two conical pulleys to vary the ratio which is indeed utterly pony. Certainly in every application I've tried anyway.

I had an Audi A4 multitronic hire car not that long ago.

"Utter Pony" is being very kind to it.

C

[Beefmeister]

E38Ross said:

i don't understand all the negative hype on PH.

better economy
better acceleration
the extra mass will be totally negligible

[CraigyMc]

Beefmeister said:

E38Ross said:

i don't understand all the negative hype on PH.

better economy
better acceleration
the extra mass will be totally negligible

Maybe he meant "Negative" rather than "Negligible".

C

[mccrackenj]

There was a time when we were perfectly happy with 3 speed autos, especially when attached to something of 4.2 litres (ah happy days).

I can understand the desire for 5 speed autos, maybe even 6 - but 9? Nine!

I'm mystified as to wh,y when cars have more power and torque than ever, we seem to be getting more and more ratios, not fewer.

[CraigyMc]

mccrackenj said:

I'm mystified as to why when cars have more power and torque than ever, we seem to be getting more and more ratios, not fewer.

• Economy
• Noise
• Lugging capability
• Marketing

I'm sure there are additional reasons.

[alangla]

RizzoTheRat said:

Meh, I did my first driving test with 32 forward and 32 reverse gears, though I don't think I got above 30th on the test.

Were you driving a tank?? Thought you had to have a class B licence before doing anything like that?

[schmalex]

One could argue that, not only is it 2 wheel drive, my old Landy Series also has 8 forward gears (4 in high range and 4 in low range), so Land Rover aren't moving that far away from their roots with the Evoque.....