RE: Renaultsport Clio 200 price confirmed
Discussion
Nikolai Petroff said:
The early French language reviews are... dissapoiting :-( Yes, it's softer and less fun. The engine is flat and the flappy paddle a little slow. So Renault have shot themselves in the foot. People who want a comfy pseudo-sports hatch won't get one anyway and the hardcore people will now avoid it. What a bummer.
I've read varied, with differing opinions, and the French ones didn't exactly say they were disappointed with it. I think i'll read the UK Press reviews first. Be interested to hear what Chris Harris thinks of it that's for sure.Penneth said:
You're getting confused between the Clio 197/200 Cup (cheaper, very basic model), and the Clio 197/200 'Lux' with a cup chassis added (often referred to as Full Fat) as an optional extra.
Horses for courses with the options really, the cars are too different to only compare the creature comforts fitted as standard and as you say, you get them all (and more) as soon as you go for the Lux spec.
No confusion. The Clio 197/200 Cup (also the Megane 250/265 Cup) was always the cheaper base spec car option. That no longer exists on the new Clio 200T. You now have to pay more for a Cup. Horses for courses with the options really, the cars are too different to only compare the creature comforts fitted as standard and as you say, you get them all (and more) as soon as you go for the Lux spec.
As said before this will sell much more than the 200/cup did,directed to a much more larger public, people who bought Golf/Seat/Fabia DSGs now have another option to look at and to say at least VAG group DSG hot hatches sold way more than the previous 200 did for obvious reasons they are much more accessible to the normal public who couldn't give a fvck about a real drivers car.
The real enthusiasts still have bargain Clio 200 Cups to pick up if they don't like this.
The real enthusiasts still have bargain Clio 200 Cups to pick up if they don't like this.
big_boz said:
Podie said:
big_boz said:
Podie said:
I can perfectly well afford one (cash, not credit) but struggle to justify spending this sort of money on a car that does less than 10 miles a day to the train station and back.
Well you have just proven my point then. If you earned more money you would be able to justify spending it on a car wouldn't you....regardless of your current income or transportation needs.Even if I could afford to buy a Zonda for the station car park, I still could not justify replacing the existing car.
OH wait a minute......is it because you don't want to drive just any old car...you want to drive a TVR (horrendous fuel economy)...an ST220 (horrendous fuel economy) AND and a fit of pure capitalism....another car! So just to confirm that's 3 cars in your household to cover your 10 mile daily commute....which just to clarify...YOU CAN JUSTIFY??
Medal for utterly nonsensical retort of the day is in the post
ETA.....you are compounding my point by the way...if you could afford a Zonda, then i am absolutely sure you would be able to justify £20k on a new car as a daily driver.
Why have we got any cars? At the time of purchase we were both working two hours from home - in opposite directions. I use the train, so drive to the station, whereas the missus drove to her place of work - hence the diesel Skoda.
I had thought this was going to be a reasoned discussion.
On Pistonheads?!?Technomatt said:
Penneth said:
You're getting confused between the Clio 197/200 Cup (cheaper, very basic model), and the Clio 197/200 'Lux' with a cup chassis added (often referred to as Full Fat) as an optional extra.
Horses for courses with the options really, the cars are too different to only compare the creature comforts fitted as standard and as you say, you get them all (and more) as soon as you go for the Lux spec.
No confusion. The Clio 197/200 Cup (also the Megane 250/265 Cup) was always the cheaper base spec car option. That no longer exists on the new Clio 200T. You now have to pay more for a Cup. Horses for courses with the options really, the cars are too different to only compare the creature comforts fitted as standard and as you say, you get them all (and more) as soon as you go for the Lux spec.
I imagine there won't be a cup as who would want a stripped back, no frills 5 dr hot hatch?
Technomatt said:
No confusion. The Clio 197/200 Cup (also the Megane 250/265 Cup) was always the cheaper base spec car option. That no longer exists on the new Clio 200T. You now have to pay more for a Cup.
Ah OK, I think I see your logic now but you are not paying more for the 'Cup' now, the 'Cup' no longer exists. It's the age old comparing old versus new which you just cannot accurately do.200 Cup was £17,135. That was absolutely basic with little to no creature comforts and didn't even have body coloured side moulds.
The new 200T is £19,445 with the cup chassis. A minimum increase of £2310 in order to get the 'Cup'. However, if you take the two cars and compare what you get for your money, the difference is absolutely justified.
The really sad thing is Renault have culled the model line up and binned UK dealers because they are not selling cars anymore and needed to save money, whilst at the same time they have invested heavily into electric cars that nobody really wants due to range and cost issues. Big, big mistake that even Renault chief Carlos Ghosn now admits. That time, money and effort on just electric powered stuff nobody really wants could have been better invested in its core products and capability.
Hoygo said:
As said before this will sell much more than the 200/cup did,directed to a much more larger public, people who bought Golf/Seat/Fabia DSGs now have another option to look at and to say at least VAG group DSG hot hatches sold way more than the previous 200 did for obvious reasons they are much more accessible to the normal public who couldn't give a fvck about a real drivers car.
The real enthusiasts still have bargain Clio 200 Cups to pick up if they don't like this.
Not the same crowd. Polo GTI people won't go for a Renault.The real enthusiasts still have bargain Clio 200 Cups to pick up if they don't like this.
Podie said:
big_boz said:
Podie said:
big_boz said:
Podie said:
I can perfectly well afford one (cash, not credit) but struggle to justify spending this sort of money on a car that does less than 10 miles a day to the train station and back.
Well you have just proven my point then. If you earned more money you would be able to justify spending it on a car wouldn't you....regardless of your current income or transportation needs.Even if I could afford to buy a Zonda for the station car park, I still could not justify replacing the existing car.
OH wait a minute......is it because you don't want to drive just any old car...you want to drive a TVR (horrendous fuel economy)...an ST220 (horrendous fuel economy) AND and a fit of pure capitalism....another car! So just to confirm that's 3 cars in your household to cover your 10 mile daily commute....which just to clarify...YOU CAN JUSTIFY??
Medal for utterly nonsensical retort of the day is in the post
ETA.....you are compounding my point by the way...if you could afford a Zonda, then i am absolutely sure you would be able to justify £20k on a new car as a daily driver.
Why have we got any cars? At the time of purchase we were both working two hours from home - in opposite directions. I use the train, so drive to the station, whereas the missus drove to her place of work - hence the diesel Skoda.
I had thought this was going to be a reasoned discussion.
What you are saying is that you can justify spending a proportion of your net worth on motoring. Clearly you are enthusiastic about your motoring as you have chosen to invest in cars which are interesting and some (most of us) would deem as being "fun"...yet.....
You are saying that you would not adjust your expectations of your motoring expense if your net worth were greater, as such you have clearly stated that "even if you could afford a Zonda" you would not be able to justify c£20k on (in this instance) a cliosport.
If you truly believed and stood by your implication, you would have never purchased these "fun cars" in the first instance as they are comparatively expensive to run compared to the more lowly variants of the same models in the case of the Skoda and the Ford, and then the TVR is a total deviation from your comments as it it completely unnecessary.
Now I am perfectly willing to accept that you are (to coin a Yorkshire term) "tight" but that is not to say that £19k is alot to pay for a cliosport compared to other new cars, frankly it isn't....to justify this, is a Boxster more than twice the car that the Renault is...clearly not, but it cost more than twice as much new. ALL new cars surely seem expensive in your eyes...would you disagree with this statement...i assume not?
roystinho said:
You don't get a 'cup' for paying more though with the basic interior, no a/c, a key to start etc. You pay slightly more for a car with everything just like you could have done with the last Clio and current Megane 265.
I imagine there won't be a cup as who would want a stripped back, no frills 5 dr hot hatch?
The Cup was always the 'value choice' for the enthusiast that wanted a lighter better handling base spec car. No longer available. Renaultsport have just reversed their marketing policy. Just like they are doing with other areas of known Renaultsport heritage. They are selling out for sales. Sad times.I imagine there won't be a cup as who would want a stripped back, no frills 5 dr hot hatch?
The thing I don't understand is that with the new breed of hot hatches beyond power the battles are being fought by the number of toys they can squeeze in.
I'd much rather buy a small hot hatch with electric windows, the option to choose basic air con or a sunroof, a decent stereo, some nice seats, a manual box and wheels 17 inches or less.
The other stuff could be on an options list, the base price would be lower, standard weight would be lower and owners could then choose to add what they wanted.
I'm pretty sure there are now four tiers of 'Hot Hatch' on sale:
The junior stuff like the Swift Sport/Twingo 133 that would have been occupied by the early Golf and 205 GTIs etc.
The hotter small cars - Fiesta ST, Clio
The Family sized Hot hatch- Golf GTI, Focus ST,
and the the Hyper version of the Family sized ones - Golf R, Focus RS, M135i.
I'd much rather buy a small hot hatch with electric windows, the option to choose basic air con or a sunroof, a decent stereo, some nice seats, a manual box and wheels 17 inches or less.
The other stuff could be on an options list, the base price would be lower, standard weight would be lower and owners could then choose to add what they wanted.
I'm pretty sure there are now four tiers of 'Hot Hatch' on sale:
The junior stuff like the Swift Sport/Twingo 133 that would have been occupied by the early Golf and 205 GTIs etc.
The hotter small cars - Fiesta ST, Clio
The Family sized Hot hatch- Golf GTI, Focus ST,
and the the Hyper version of the Family sized ones - Golf R, Focus RS, M135i.
Technomatt said:
The Cup was always the 'value choice' for the enthusiast that wanted a lighter better handling base spec car. No longer available. Renaultsport have just reversed their marketing policy. Just like they are doing with other areas of known Renaultsport heritage. They are selling out for sales. Sad times.
Things move on, I suggest you read Dan's very well written post located here - http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...If you want the value choice enthusiast hot hatch, there are a lot of used Clio 200 Cups for sale at bargain prices!
big_boz said:
Perfectly reasoned from my side of things....
What you are saying is that you can justify spending a proportion of your net worth on motoring. Clearly you are enthusiastic about your motoring as you have chosen to invest in cars which are interesting and some (most of us) would deem as being "fun"...yet.....
You are saying that you would not adjust your expectations of your motoring expense if your net worth were greater, as such you have clearly stated that "even if you could afford a Zonda" you would not be able to justify c£20k on (in this instance) a cliosport.
If you truly believed and stood by your implication, you would have never purchased these "fun cars" in the first instance as they are comparatively expensive to run compared to the more lowly variants of the same models in the case of the Skoda and the Ford, and then the TVR is a total deviation from your comments as it it completely unnecessary.
Now I am perfectly willing to accept that you are (to coin a Yorkshire term) "tight" but that is not to say that £19k is alot to pay for a cliosport compared to other new cars, frankly it isn't....to justify this, is a Boxster more than twice the car that the Renault is...clearly not, but it cost more than twice as much new. ALL new cars surely seem expensive in your eyes...would you disagree with this statement...i assume not?
I could afford a 911, but I don't own one. Despite being able to justify the price tag. What you are saying is that you can justify spending a proportion of your net worth on motoring. Clearly you are enthusiastic about your motoring as you have chosen to invest in cars which are interesting and some (most of us) would deem as being "fun"...yet.....
You are saying that you would not adjust your expectations of your motoring expense if your net worth were greater, as such you have clearly stated that "even if you could afford a Zonda" you would not be able to justify c£20k on (in this instance) a cliosport.
If you truly believed and stood by your implication, you would have never purchased these "fun cars" in the first instance as they are comparatively expensive to run compared to the more lowly variants of the same models in the case of the Skoda and the Ford, and then the TVR is a total deviation from your comments as it it completely unnecessary.
Now I am perfectly willing to accept that you are (to coin a Yorkshire term) "tight" but that is not to say that £19k is alot to pay for a cliosport compared to other new cars, frankly it isn't....to justify this, is a Boxster more than twice the car that the Renault is...clearly not, but it cost more than twice as much new. ALL new cars surely seem expensive in your eyes...would you disagree with this statement...i assume not?
I can also afford a new Golf, but can't justify the price tag.
Am I tight?
Penneth said:
Ah OK, I think I see your logic now but you are not paying more for the 'Cup' now, the 'Cup' no longer exists. It's the age old comparing old versus new which you just cannot accurately do.
200 Cup was £17,135. That was absolutely basic with little to no creature comforts and didn't even have body coloured side moulds.
The new 200T is £19,445 with the cup chassis. A minimum increase of £2310 in order to get the 'Cup'. However, if you take the two cars and compare what you get for your money, the difference is absolutely justified.
The difference between the old and new model maybe justified on a cost for spec basis but there is no choice anymore. It's a Clio 200T Full Fat + extra cost Cup only. That's a 180 from Renault.200 Cup was £17,135. That was absolutely basic with little to no creature comforts and didn't even have body coloured side moulds.
The new 200T is £19,445 with the cup chassis. A minimum increase of £2310 in order to get the 'Cup'. However, if you take the two cars and compare what you get for your money, the difference is absolutely justified.
Edited by Technomatt on Thursday 14th March 15:43
chrisw666 said:
The thing I don't understand is that with the new breed of hot hatches beyond power the battles are being fought by the number of toys they can squeeze in.
I'd much rather buy a small hot hatch with electric windows, the option to choose basic air con or a sunroof, a decent stereo, some nice seats, a manual box and wheels 17 inches or less.
The other stuff could be on an options list, the base price would be lower, standard weight would be lower and owners could then choose to add what they wanted.
I'm pretty sure there are now four tiers of 'Hot Hatch' on sale:
The junior stuff like the Swift Sport/Twingo 133 that would have been occupied by the early Golf and 205 GTIs etc.
The hotter small cars - Fiesta ST, Clio
The Family sized Hot hatch- Golf GTI, Focus ST,
and the the Hyper version of the Family sized ones - Golf R, Focus RS, M135i.
Amen to that. Chapeau!I'd much rather buy a small hot hatch with electric windows, the option to choose basic air con or a sunroof, a decent stereo, some nice seats, a manual box and wheels 17 inches or less.
The other stuff could be on an options list, the base price would be lower, standard weight would be lower and owners could then choose to add what they wanted.
I'm pretty sure there are now four tiers of 'Hot Hatch' on sale:
The junior stuff like the Swift Sport/Twingo 133 that would have been occupied by the early Golf and 205 GTIs etc.
The hotter small cars - Fiesta ST, Clio
The Family sized Hot hatch- Golf GTI, Focus ST,
and the the Hyper version of the Family sized ones - Golf R, Focus RS, M135i.
Technomatt said:
The diference between the old and new model maybe justified on a cost for spec basis but there is no choice anymore. It's a Clio 200T Full Fat + extra cost Cup only. That's a 180 from Renault.
Correct, times have changed and Renault are moving with the times in order to remain a successful company, allowing them to continue making brilliant hot hatches for many years to come.Penneth said:
Things move on, I suggest you read Dan's very well written post located here - http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
If you want the value choice enthusiast hot hatch, there are a lot of used Clio 200 Cups for sale at bargain prices!
Or you could just accept what your given as Renault knows best? If you want the value choice enthusiast hot hatch, there are a lot of used Clio 200 Cups for sale at bargain prices!
I would prefer Renaultsport to keep doing what it does best whilst keeping choice and development on the agenda. You can see the Renaultsport division has had the accountant's squeezing their balls while they waste money on Duracell cars.
chrisw666 said:
I could afford a 911, but I don't own one. Despite being able to justify the price tag.
I can also afford a new Golf, but can't justify the price tag.
Am I tight?
No, you are totally missing my point. I am trying to address the common misconception that all new cars are expensive, what you can and can not afford is here nor there.I can also afford a new Golf, but can't justify the price tag.
Am I tight?
Do you think that £19k is too much to pay for a new car, be it a Renault sport Clio or indeed any car? Your comment about a golf would indicate that this would be the case. Now regards the golf, if you spent £19k on a golf would it have as much kit or drive as well or as fast as the Clio....No it would not...is the Clio much smaller or less practical...not really, so on the face of it therefore the Clio is reasonably priced, and to my eyes reasonable value, as undoubtedly it will to the many thousands of people who buy them new.
You just happen to part of the group of people who would probably never buy (or lease?) a new car. That's fine, but consistently banging on about how expensive new cars are is pointless, They are not expensive they are just more than you personally are willing to pay.
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