RE: Megane 265 Cup and Subaru BRZ: Fast vs Fun
Discussion
Rawwr said:
It's not about that at all. Quite the opposite.
In the GT86, to really enjoy it, it is. Its all about pinning your foot to the bulk head. It wasnt fun to drive any other way. Chassis is great but it really does lack torque. Reminds me of the engine from a suzuki swift sport but with about an extra 50hp bolted on the top of the rev range. Some people like that but I dont.
I'm fortunate as I've driven both. On the same day. The Megane is a great, great car but at the speeds that it becomes 'fun' you are really motoring. I mean - if you drive it flat out you are doing not far off Boxster/Cayman speeds - maybe a bit more at times. Too fast for me outside a track.
The GT-86/BRZ is just bloody brilliant. I also think it's very, very well made. You can feel it - I just totally loved it. I think sliding about in the Toyobaru is safer than belting the Megane - fall off in that thing and it's good night Vienna. It's perfect for the congested roads of the South East. Maybe up North you might want a bit more poke...
THe BRZ/GT might get annoying on the commute - it's a bit grumbly and harsh, but the Renault would drive you nuts.
The GT-86/BRZ is just bloody brilliant. I also think it's very, very well made. You can feel it - I just totally loved it. I think sliding about in the Toyobaru is safer than belting the Megane - fall off in that thing and it's good night Vienna. It's perfect for the congested roads of the South East. Maybe up North you might want a bit more poke...
THe BRZ/GT might get annoying on the commute - it's a bit grumbly and harsh, but the Renault would drive you nuts.
W124 said:
I'm fortunate as I've driven both. On the same day. The Megane is a great, great car but at the speeds that it becomes 'fun' you are really motoring. I mean - if you drive it flat out you are doing not far off Boxster/Cayman speeds - maybe a bit more at times. Too fast for me outside a track.
The GT-86/BRZ is just bloody brilliant. I also think it's very, very well made. You can feel it - I just totally loved it. I think sliding about in the Toyobaru is safer than belting the Megane - fall off in that thing and it's good night Vienna. It's perfect for the congested roads of the South East. Maybe up North you might want a bit more poke...
THe BRZ/GT might get annoying on the commute - it's a bit grumbly and harsh, but the Renault would drive you nuts.
I moved down south two weeks ago, originally from Yorkshire. So Im used to empty roads and I know what I enjoy in a car and dont. The GT-86/BRZ is just bloody brilliant. I also think it's very, very well made. You can feel it - I just totally loved it. I think sliding about in the Toyobaru is safer than belting the Megane - fall off in that thing and it's good night Vienna. It's perfect for the congested roads of the South East. Maybe up North you might want a bit more poke...
THe BRZ/GT might get annoying on the commute - it's a bit grumbly and harsh, but the Renault would drive you nuts.
I might go drive one again. Im not saying it isnt brilliant, but that lack of torque is a MAJOR issue for me. Anyway, I wouldnt consider a megane, id look elsewhere all together. GT86 with forced induction would be a blast.
Having owned a Megane I think a huge chunk of the appeal comes from having a car which flatters the driver. I'm just an average bloke who likes the odd trackday but I could happily keep up with some very serious machinery in my Megane. Was this because I'm an incredible driver? No, it's because the Megane makes it very easy for someone with relatively little talent (me) to go very very fast. If that's your thing then you'll go for the Megane everytime but I can hand on heart say that in the 5 years I've owned RS Meganes I don't think they improved my skill as a driver in any way. They're so competent and the scope for taking liberties with it so wide that they're never going to challenge you in the same way as a decent RWD platform. Sad truth I'm afraid.
I now have an S2000 and although it's a moody little bugger (and probably not as quick point to point) I can say that it's improved me as a driver more in the last 4 months than during my entire Megane ownership period.
As someone has said above, it'll come down to what you want out of a car but for me most of the thrill of driving comes from being challenged and developing as a driver.
If you're like I used to be and have little talent but want to go really fast then the Meg is the choice, but for a challenging drive to test you as a driver I went looking elsewhere ultimately.
As a daily driver though it has the BRZ licked. Decent practicality and all round ability that the Subaru simply doesn't have.
I now have an S2000 and although it's a moody little bugger (and probably not as quick point to point) I can say that it's improved me as a driver more in the last 4 months than during my entire Megane ownership period.
As someone has said above, it'll come down to what you want out of a car but for me most of the thrill of driving comes from being challenged and developing as a driver.
If you're like I used to be and have little talent but want to go really fast then the Meg is the choice, but for a challenging drive to test you as a driver I went looking elsewhere ultimately.
As a daily driver though it has the BRZ licked. Decent practicality and all round ability that the Subaru simply doesn't have.
nickfrog said:
Good move. Are you also OK on track with the standard brakes ? Or are you running track pads ?
I am trying to get a picture of future trackability of the thing.
Just use it for trackdays and it is great fun.I am trying to get a picture of future trackability of the thing.
Stock brakes ok and I use PF pads, however.....
Fronts getting the chop anyday for some AP Racing jobbies.
My order of mods ; remap, wheels/tyres, brakes, and next up coilovers.
Fun is a very subjective subject so for someone to declare that one car is better because it's more fun than another car is pretty silly tbh. Everyone's tastes of what's fun differ. For me a huge part of a cars fun is how it accelerates so a car which doesn't have the ability to pin me back in my seat like a roller-coaster ride AND sound good while doing would send me to sleep.
Yes the purists might sneer at that and yes I probably should have grown out of it by now but then the same could be said about this obsession of "getting the back end out". I used to do that in car parks when I was a teenager too so why is that still seen as legitimate fun for the car connoisseur and yet acceleration seen as juvenile?
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate a bit of RWD fun as much as the next person but I'd also prefer if that car could excite me in other ways too, the Toyobaru is too one dimensional for my liking, yes it might be exciting to get it sideways but they seem to have concentrated on this aspect to the deteriment of others, I applaud them for making it but at £25k I'd take the Renault and I never thought I'd choose a French car over a Japanese one.
Yes the purists might sneer at that and yes I probably should have grown out of it by now but then the same could be said about this obsession of "getting the back end out". I used to do that in car parks when I was a teenager too so why is that still seen as legitimate fun for the car connoisseur and yet acceleration seen as juvenile?
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate a bit of RWD fun as much as the next person but I'd also prefer if that car could excite me in other ways too, the Toyobaru is too one dimensional for my liking, yes it might be exciting to get it sideways but they seem to have concentrated on this aspect to the deteriment of others, I applaud them for making it but at £25k I'd take the Renault and I never thought I'd choose a French car over a Japanese one.
otolith said:
I find that any increase in straight line performance is a novelty which wears off very quickly.
Amazing how quickly even very fast cars just become ordinary once your used to it. For me, cornering never becomes boring, as it takes a little skill to do it properly, unlike just planting your foot in a straight line.
Also, the speed limit is 60 / 70, a very fast car can be doing well north of 100 in a matter of seconds after passing those limits, and while it is fun, and I don't deny it, it's illegal, and fines and bans will certainly take the fun out of driving for most people!
Guvernator said:
Fun is a very subjective subject so for someone to declare that one car is better because it's more fun than another car is pretty silly tbh. Everyone's tastes of what's fun differ. For me a huge part of a cars fun is how it accelerates so a car which doesn't have the ability to pin me back in my seat like a roller-coaster ride AND sound good while doing would send me to sleep.
Yes the purists might sneer at that and yes I probably should have grown out of it by now but then the same could be said about this obsession of "getting the back end out". I used to do that in car parks when I was a teenager too so why is that still seen as legitimate fun for the car connoisseur and yet acceleration seen as juvenile?
Fair point, but you could argue that deploying a lot of straight line acceleration requires very little input from the driver in most instances. Yes the purists might sneer at that and yes I probably should have grown out of it by now but then the same could be said about this obsession of "getting the back end out". I used to do that in car parks when I was a teenager too so why is that still seen as legitimate fun for the car connoisseur and yet acceleration seen as juvenile?
Travelling in a straight line with vaguely decent grip you can nail the throttle in a 600bhp car in much the same way as you can in a 1-litre Micra. Granted the resulting level of sensation is a bit different, but in terms of involvement it's basically the same - sit there and enjoy the ride. You could achieve much the same results by sticking a brick on the accelerator and leaving the car to its own devices.
The thing about balancing a car through the corners is that you become a vital part of the process, sensing what the car is doing and acting upon that. And that starts to have a noticeable effect way before you're perceptibly 'getting the back end out'.
The problem with power and acceleration is that you rapidly end up needing more for it to be in any way exciting. Redlining my mum's 1-litre Saxo felt quite daring at 17. Doing that would seem completely pointless now and yet I'd still enjoy flinging it round a few roundabouts, because of the way the driver is inherently involved in the process (usual caveats on visibility, lack of traffic and so on apply before objects to the suggestion).
Edited by Chris71 on Friday 22 March 16:29
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