Bugatti Veyron as a daily driver?
Discussion
There's a guy, Ray, who posts on the yacht thread who seems very knowledgeable on such things and he maintains that on the proper super yachts you can budget at 10% of purchase cost as an annual running cost.
Never forget being in Cannes and being blown away by the yachts in the harbour, then we went out in a sight seeing boat, and discovered that the "real" yachts were so big they had to anchor offshore and fly in in the onboard helicopter !!
Never forget being in Cannes and being blown away by the yachts in the harbour, then we went out in a sight seeing boat, and discovered that the "real" yachts were so big they had to anchor offshore and fly in in the onboard helicopter !!
CraigyMc said:
Using 2009 prices for things:
18 new sets of tyres (replaced every 2500 miles) at £6325 per tyre is £455400 in tyres.
6 new sets of wheels (replaced every 7500 miles) at £29900 per set is £179400 in wheels.
So, £634K just in tyres and wheels for 45,000 miles.
In context, the new price for a brand new McLaren F1 at launch was £634K.
It's £13,465 for each yearly service, and if you want to extend the standard 2 year warranty by another two years, that's another £63,000.
Why would you change the wheels every 7500 miles? 18 new sets of tyres (replaced every 2500 miles) at £6325 per tyre is £455400 in tyres.
6 new sets of wheels (replaced every 7500 miles) at £29900 per set is £179400 in wheels.
So, £634K just in tyres and wheels for 45,000 miles.
In context, the new price for a brand new McLaren F1 at launch was £634K.
It's £13,465 for each yearly service, and if you want to extend the standard 2 year warranty by another two years, that's another £63,000.
If it's a daily driver it's unlikely the tyres would need changing that frequently too.
greggy50 said:
I remember reading that VW lost millions on each car made so I presume they are trying to recoup this via servicing costs...
Also funny how after 5/6 years on sale they still have some available when the P1/Le Ferrari etc... sold out in a few weeks it has almost been a sales flop when you look at it that way!
Until someone actually posts the Bugatti accounts I don't believe for a moment that they made a massive loss on the Veyron and most certainly did not make a loss on the marginal cost of production. If that was the case then the project would have been pulled when it was obvious that the losses were only going to increase.Also funny how after 5/6 years on sale they still have some available when the P1/Le Ferrari etc... sold out in a few weeks it has almost been a sales flop when you look at it that way!
VW is a publicly quoted company, the directors of the company are legally required to work in the best interests of the company, you can be incompetent but negligence can carry serious penalties. You can't simply wilfully loose the company money.
Brief sums:
"Enzo Programme" (Enzo, MC12, FXX/MC12CS) Total £250 million sales
Mclaren P1 Total ~£375 million sales
Pagani Zonda ~ £100 million sales
Aston 077 £92 million sales
Porsche Carrera GT ~ £380 million sales
Veyron ~ £460 million sales
If they made a loss of 2-3 million per car that would mean they lost £720-1080 million, not possible on a programme where they made the originally intended number of cars. The only way you can make losses like than on a per car basis would be if you sold 50 of them.
More likely; what's the best way to sell someone a £1 million car, put it out there that it's worth £3-4 million
k!ChrisRS6 said:
I call BS on some of these facts and figures?
Why do you need to "change" the wheels after 7.5k miles?
I don't think it's so much a mileage issue, more the number of times its been through a tyre press. If you're ever going to be doing 250mph then you'd be sensible to check your wheels aren't going to fail.Why do you need to "change" the wheels after 7.5k miles?
ChrisRS6 said:
I call BS on some of these facts and figures?
Why do you need to "change" the wheels after 7.5k miles?
So do I. The original thing was that you change the wheels every 3rd tyre change. I can't imagine pootling around as a daily you would go through a set of tyres in 2500 miles. So you can at least double that...Why do you need to "change" the wheels after 7.5k miles?
Nor can I imagine if you had no intention of doing 250 mph would you have the wheels changed, ever.
Talksteer said:
Until someone actually posts the Bugatti accounts I don't believe for a moment that they made a massive loss on the Veyron and most certainly did not make a loss on the marginal cost of production. If that was the case then the project would have been pulled when it was obvious that the losses were only going to increase.
VW is a publicly quoted company, the directors of the company are legally required to work in the best interests of the company, you can be incompetent but negligence can carry serious penalties. You can't simply wilfully loose the company money.
Brief sums:
"Enzo Programme" (Enzo, MC12, FXX/MC12CS) Total £250 million sales
Mclaren P1 Total ~£375 million sales
Pagani Zonda ~ £100 million sales
Aston 077 £92 million sales
Porsche Carrera GT ~ £380 million sales
Veyron ~ £460 million sales
If they made a loss of 2-3 million per car that would mean they lost £720-1080 million, not possible on a programme where they made the originally intended number of cars. The only way you can make losses like than on a per car basis would be if you sold 50 of them.
More likely; what's the best way to sell someone a £1 million car, put it out there that it's worth £3-4 million
Thanks for this. VW is a publicly quoted company, the directors of the company are legally required to work in the best interests of the company, you can be incompetent but negligence can carry serious penalties. You can't simply wilfully loose the company money.
Brief sums:
"Enzo Programme" (Enzo, MC12, FXX/MC12CS) Total £250 million sales
Mclaren P1 Total ~£375 million sales
Pagani Zonda ~ £100 million sales
Aston 077 £92 million sales
Porsche Carrera GT ~ £380 million sales
Veyron ~ £460 million sales
If they made a loss of 2-3 million per car that would mean they lost £720-1080 million, not possible on a programme where they made the originally intended number of cars. The only way you can make losses like than on a per car basis would be if you sold 50 of them.
More likely; what's the best way to sell someone a £1 million car, put it out there that it's worth £3-4 million
I get fed up with bar room talk about how someone "Heard" VW lost money on every car and when asked as to where they heard it it's never verified. Someone no doubt will quote "A source" probably a motoring journalist who says they have info that fortunes were lost. As you say, the facts are not known of the Bugatti project in isolation, but companies cannot and do not wilfully lose money whether they are car manufacturers, supermarkets or plumbers merchants.
VW may have lost on the car overall, they may not have. We will never know but it's a fair bet that if they were losing money on every car, it's unlikely they'd still be making all the versions they do. It simply wouldn't make sense.
And for people who say it a halo project to enhance the brand! Really, are we seriously saying a Bugatti enhances the perception of a VW Passat or Golf.
Thankyou4calling said:
Talksteer said:
Until someone actually posts the Bugatti accounts I don't believe for a moment that they made a massive loss on the Veyron and most certainly did not make a loss on the marginal cost of production. If that was the case then the project would have been pulled when it was obvious that the losses were only going to increase.
VW is a publicly quoted company, the directors of the company are legally required to work in the best interests of the company, you can be incompetent but negligence can carry serious penalties. You can't simply wilfully loose the company money.
Brief sums:
"Enzo Programme" (Enzo, MC12, FXX/MC12CS) Total £250 million sales
Mclaren P1 Total ~£375 million sales
Pagani Zonda ~ £100 million sales
Aston 077 £92 million sales
Porsche Carrera GT ~ £380 million sales
Veyron ~ £460 million sales
If they made a loss of 2-3 million per car that would mean they lost £720-1080 million, not possible on a programme where they made the originally intended number of cars. The only way you can make losses like than on a per car basis would be if you sold 50 of them.
More likely; what's the best way to sell someone a £1 million car, put it out there that it's worth £3-4 million
Thanks for this. VW is a publicly quoted company, the directors of the company are legally required to work in the best interests of the company, you can be incompetent but negligence can carry serious penalties. You can't simply wilfully loose the company money.
Brief sums:
"Enzo Programme" (Enzo, MC12, FXX/MC12CS) Total £250 million sales
Mclaren P1 Total ~£375 million sales
Pagani Zonda ~ £100 million sales
Aston 077 £92 million sales
Porsche Carrera GT ~ £380 million sales
Veyron ~ £460 million sales
If they made a loss of 2-3 million per car that would mean they lost £720-1080 million, not possible on a programme where they made the originally intended number of cars. The only way you can make losses like than on a per car basis would be if you sold 50 of them.
More likely; what's the best way to sell someone a £1 million car, put it out there that it's worth £3-4 million
I get fed up with bar room talk about how someone "Heard" VW lost money on every car and when asked as to where they heard it it's never verified. Someone no doubt will quote "A source" probably a motoring journalist who says they have info that fortunes were lost. As you say, the facts are not known of the Bugatti project in isolation, but companies cannot and do not wilfully lose money whether they are car manufacturers, supermarkets or plumbers merchants.
VW may have lost on the car overall, they may not have. We will never know but it's a fair bet that if they were losing money on every car, it's unlikely they'd still be making all the versions they do. It simply wouldn't make sense.
And for people who say it a halo project to enhance the brand! Really, are we seriously saying a Bugatti enhances the perception of a VW Passat or Golf.
said each one cost 5M to make. Probs were it started .. 
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